Comments on: Black Metal and Anonymity: A Traditionalist Perspective http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective Death Metal News, Reviews, Interviews and Articles Tue, 22 Nov 2011 07:27:39 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Frederick Mills http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-1452 Frederick Mills Mon, 25 Oct 2010 05:03:39 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-1452 I would think more then a spiritual consensus could be described, a voice crystalized out of antimodernism here, or rather that with modernism you can do less and less every decade of the twentieth century as you see it proceed. The pop decadence crumbled, the second phase of the severe Sturm und Drang romantics, now infuriated, it needed to defy all conventions set in this age of stars, trends, pop, functionality, minimalism, and the civil luxury and convenience. The archetype seems to me more the mercylessness of nature and the Gods inherant to that nature. Furthermore to detach yourself from modern irony provides the only lucidity that was still available. The rage of it simply is the only possible way to fight that irony with which everything unleashed a base crowds mass hysteria. I think the articles suggestion is a metaphore but in all the eclectic cross influences of images, there are other main players. The value in regression, being totally reborn in the past, and pure classic aesthetical norms, and from that perspective its disgust and anger. This was announced even by Michel Foucault who predicted or suggested complete regression and abandonment of modern age. Unfortunatly the establishment is too unelegant and too indoctrinated in its own analytic discourse, void of any passion or inspiration. Hence a very sickened reaction. Must say i really enjoyed reading the spirit of this article, hahaha, so few will be found going deeper into the traditionalist value of all blatant and ultratraditionalist presentation. The heathen holy war festival was MORE guilty of daftness egoism and modern entertainment in that it has exactly that title, and everyone drinking a few beers, wanting "no politics in metal" I presume they are mistaken and subcounsciously DO IN FACT relate to what is being said. If not, well goodbye to the last percentage of possibility for actual cultures. As far as the "industry" this is only betrayal that it does not start a seriously crafted culture with artisan crafts, sculptors and authenticity. To that extent it will be mangled as a little concept among all the minimalist plastic cd boxes. We should expand black metal with serious new soldiers garments, arms, tent camps should be serious tent camps, so they would be inspired on classic ROman tent camps or such. Concert halls could start to have serious sculptures. THEN we would keep growing, now its just one more idea to the modernist incinerator of trends. I would think more then a spiritual consensus could be described, a voice crystalized out of antimodernism here, or rather that with modernism you can do less and less every decade of the twentieth century as you see it proceed. The pop decadence crumbled, the second phase of the severe Sturm und Drang romantics, now infuriated, it needed to defy all conventions set in this age of stars, trends, pop, functionality, minimalism, and the civil luxury and convenience. The archetype seems to me more the mercylessness of nature and the Gods inherant to that nature. Furthermore to detach yourself from modern irony provides the only lucidity that was still available. The rage of it simply is the only possible way to fight that irony with which everything unleashed a base crowds mass hysteria. I think the articles suggestion is a metaphore but in all the eclectic cross influences of images, there are other main players. The value in regression, being totally reborn in the past, and pure classic aesthetical norms, and from that perspective its disgust and anger. This was announced even by Michel Foucault who predicted or suggested complete regression and abandonment of modern age. Unfortunatly the establishment is too unelegant and too indoctrinated in its own analytic discourse, void of any passion or inspiration. Hence a very sickened reaction.
Must say i really enjoyed reading the spirit of this article, hahaha, so few will be found going deeper into the traditionalist value of all blatant and ultratraditionalist presentation. The heathen holy war festival was MORE guilty of daftness egoism and modern entertainment in that it has exactly that title, and everyone drinking a few beers, wanting “no politics in metal” I presume they are mistaken and subcounsciously DO IN FACT relate to what is being said. If not, well goodbye to the last percentage of possibility for actual cultures. As far as the “industry” this is only betrayal that it does not start a seriously crafted culture with artisan crafts, sculptors and authenticity. To that extent it will be mangled as a little concept among all the minimalist plastic cd boxes. We should expand black metal with serious new soldiers garments, arms, tent camps should be serious tent camps, so they would be inspired on classic ROman tent camps or such. Concert halls could start to have serious sculptures. THEN we would keep growing, now its just one more idea to the modernist incinerator of trends.

]]> By: Death Metal Album of the Week: Dark Tranquillity – Skydancer « DeathMetal.Org http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-1348 Death Metal Album of the Week: Dark Tranquillity – Skydancer « DeathMetal.Org Thu, 02 Sep 2010 02:32:29 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-1348 [...] music. In the same way that Varg took Paganism away from the neo-Pagans and revealed the underlying Essence of what is usually otherwise depicted as a quaint and obsolete mythology of demigods, the mystical [...] [...] music. In the same way that Varg took Paganism away from the neo-Pagans and revealed the underlying Essence of what is usually otherwise depicted as a quaint and obsolete mythology of demigods, the mystical [...]

]]> By: TheWaters http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-604 TheWaters Wed, 09 Jun 2010 15:26:42 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-604 In regards to this: "Presumably you are ffunctioning under the assumption that ananemity represents this “supreme aspect,” which can lead to immortality, which is the primary reason for black metal artists’ attempts to remain anonomous." Anonymity does not represent the "Supreme Aspect"- it is the logical extension of the recognition that all proceeds from the one this one supreme source- and not from your own ego. Choosing a pseudonym to represent the essential characteristics that define oneself in contrast to the accidental features of ones ego hardly seems in conflict with the larger argument. It is almost like these artists discovered their true self and vocation's, defined traditionally, and named themselves accordingly and had little regard for whether what they expressed would help them to reap rewards, concieved in terms of ego worship and material wealth. In regards to this:

“Presumably you are ffunctioning under the assumption that ananemity represents this “supreme aspect,” which can lead to immortality, which is the primary reason for black metal artists’ attempts to remain anonomous.”

Anonymity does not represent the “Supreme Aspect”- it is the logical extension of the recognition that all proceeds from the one this one supreme source- and not from your own ego.

Choosing a pseudonym to represent the essential characteristics that define oneself in contrast to the accidental features of ones ego hardly seems in conflict with the larger argument. It is almost like these artists discovered their true self and vocation’s, defined traditionally, and named themselves accordingly and had little regard for whether what they expressed would help them to reap rewards, concieved in terms of ego worship and material wealth.

]]> By: TheWaters http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-601 TheWaters Tue, 08 Jun 2010 23:42:19 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-601 First, thank you for the compliment and i am glad you enojyed the article even if you have problems with it. I will respond to you objections individually, although i am unsure what some of your questions are about i will try my best. 1. Anonymity is the logical extension of the recognition that ones ego is a very small and insignificant part of the supreme godhead, that more than nought causes illusion within the mind of man. When one realizes that all things are in fact emanations of the supreme including ones artistic creations one can no longer justify attributing one's artistic works to their personal ego and there own personal, individualized and atomic self. When you say that Dead chose a psedonym in order to personalize different aspects of himself and thereby be understood in this way and characterized as such i believe that you undermine you own claim that i am thereby contradicting myself. I would argue that Dead by realizing that the characteristics that defined who he was he did not emanate from his own atomic and again individualized self but rather from a higher source, chose not to have those very characteristics associated with his name and personal ego. One may even argue that Dead chose his pseudonym because he wanted to be the anthropomorphic representation of forces higher than his own ego that are more closely related to universal forces and the "supreme principle". 2. The entire article was about religion. Although i barely touch upon Satanism this is because i believe that many in the original Black Metal scene were more concerned with returning to traditional, non dualistic and healthier viewpoints that depended on a willingness to come to terms with and explore dark themes such as Satan and what he represents, especially considering the use of Satan as a symbol in modern society. Mysticism and traditional teachings stand in stark contrast to the modern world and have been subsequently demonized and are usually associated Satan and satanic teachings. Black metal musicians suspicious of the modern world and having little outlet for discovering deeper metaphysical truths probably turned to Satanism in some way or another as a symbolic and acessible support meant to help them along their way or SELF realization. However, i find the strict association of Black Metal with Satanism more than dubious as the overt use of satanic symbolism associated with Black Metal seems more a commercial construct later placed over top of black metal as a means of explaning it (and badly at that) than the result of the Black Metal's original and espoused ideology. I am unsure what kind of self fullfillment or individualism you are speaking of outside of latter development in the Emperor camp, but i would be curious to know why you seem to think that a person expressing their essential nature through music would be in contradiction with the notion that they strove to attain union with a godhead, considering that their essential nature itself emanates from this same source. To express ones essential nature is to know ones essential nature and to know this, is to know God. There is no contradiction here, unless what the artist is trying to do is to attain fullfillment through gratification of their own ego,which i argue real black metal musicians are not trying to do. 3. Black Metal was about rejecting the cosmic? I thought it was about every mans "Journey to the stars"? Or the "Majesty of the Night Sky", the Infinity of Thoughts, or the Cosmic Keys. I would hardly say that Black Metal was about blaspheming the cosmic, but rather an exploration of all its essential components overlooked by modern society. I hope i have answered some of your concerns, thank you for challenging my ideas and forcing me to test their validity, this is exactly the kind of interesting conversation i was hoping this article would stimulate. First, thank you for the compliment and i am glad you enojyed the article even if you have problems with it.

I will respond to you objections individually, although i am unsure what some of your questions are about i will try my best.

1. Anonymity is the logical extension of the recognition that ones ego is a very small and insignificant part of the supreme godhead, that more than nought causes illusion within the mind of man. When one realizes that all things are in fact emanations of the supreme including ones artistic creations one can no longer justify attributing one’s artistic works to their personal ego and there own personal, individualized and atomic self. When you say that Dead chose a psedonym in order to personalize different aspects of himself and thereby be understood in this way and characterized as such i believe that you undermine you own claim that i am thereby contradicting myself. I would argue that Dead by realizing that the characteristics that defined who he was he did not emanate from his own atomic and again individualized self but rather from a higher source, chose not to have those very characteristics associated with his name and personal ego. One may even argue that Dead chose his pseudonym because he wanted to be the anthropomorphic representation of forces higher than his own ego that are more closely related to universal forces and the “supreme principle”.

2. The entire article was about religion. Although i barely touch upon Satanism this is because i believe that many in the original Black Metal scene were more concerned with returning to traditional, non dualistic and healthier viewpoints that depended on a willingness to come to terms with and explore dark themes such as Satan and what he represents, especially considering the use of Satan as a symbol in modern society. Mysticism and traditional teachings stand in stark contrast to the modern world and have been subsequently demonized and are usually associated Satan and satanic teachings. Black metal musicians suspicious of the modern world and having little outlet for discovering deeper metaphysical truths probably turned to Satanism in some way or another as a symbolic and acessible support meant to help them along their way or SELF realization. However, i find the strict association of Black Metal with Satanism more than dubious as the overt use of satanic symbolism associated with Black Metal seems more a commercial construct later placed over top of black metal as a means of explaning it (and badly at that) than the result of the Black Metal’s original and espoused ideology. I am unsure what kind of self fullfillment or individualism you are speaking of outside of latter development in the Emperor camp, but i would be curious to know why you seem to think that a person expressing their essential nature through music would be in contradiction with the notion that they strove to attain union with a godhead, considering that their essential nature itself emanates from this same source. To express ones essential nature is to know ones essential nature and to know this, is to know God. There is no contradiction here, unless what the artist is trying to do is to attain fullfillment through gratification of their own ego,which i argue real black metal musicians are not trying to do.

3. Black Metal was about rejecting the cosmic? I thought it was about every mans “Journey to the stars”? Or the “Majesty of the Night Sky”, the Infinity of Thoughts, or the Cosmic Keys. I would hardly say that Black Metal was about blaspheming the cosmic, but rather an exploration of all its essential components overlooked by modern society.

I hope i have answered some of your concerns, thank you for challenging my ideas and forcing me to test their validity, this is exactly the kind of interesting conversation i was hoping this article would stimulate.

]]> By: Jonathon Taylor http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-594 Jonathon Taylor Mon, 07 Jun 2010 01:40:25 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-594 While I concur that this article was written well, and articulated the desired subject matter admirably, I find several problems with the composition as a whole. 1. Presumably you are ffunctioning under the assumption that ananemity represents this "supreme aspect," which can lead to immortality, which is the primary reason for black metal artists' attempts to remain anonomous. However, this is abstracting to a level that diverges from the truth, I.E, black metal artists' often used contrived stage names not for the necessity of concealing their identities, but rather to personalize the music, independently represent themes they were in alignment with, and to personify those themes. For example, "Dead," an artist killed in the 90s, was described as an reclusive individual who had a fascination with death. Accordingly, his stage name. In fact, this very use of specific stage names represents a way for listeners of the genre to specify persons within the music, and assign them characteristics. Thereby, I'd say this directly contradicts your claims. 2. You never address one of the fundamental aspects of black metal, or, at least, when you do it is in passing. That would be religion, or, more specifically, the rejection of some religions and the promotion of other belief systems. Primarily, this took the form of Satanism, and the rejection of Christianity. Satanism, not being a specific religion, but more a philosophy, could be represented much by Paganistic mythologies such as Norse mythology, and the themes of Satanism, individualism, self-fulfillment, etc, are all represented by the music and by the subject matter addressed in black metal songs. This was more than lyrical presentation; it was heavily contingent upon the listener being of similar beliefs and drew upon these to give the music not only meaning, but also power. Furthermore: "There was once a moment in time when black metal, like all great artistic movements strove to express something eternal, whether that was the paradoxical juxtaposition of beauty and death, the joy in battle and the growth that ensues due to struggle, or the essentially inexpressible infinite cosmos." This statement implies an attempt to explore the cosmos, the supreme, leading then to the extrapolation that black metal sought to explore the divine, the godlike, while in contrast the genre was primarily originated to blasphame the cosmic, to reject it. As stated by Gaal of the black metal band Gorgoroth, "Originally black metal wasn't for the listener, it wasfor us." I'd be interested to see how you respond. While I concur that this article was written well, and articulated the desired subject matter admirably, I find several problems with the composition as a whole.
1. Presumably you are ffunctioning under the assumption that ananemity represents this “supreme aspect,” which can lead to immortality, which is the primary reason for black metal artists’ attempts to remain anonomous. However, this is abstracting to a level that diverges from the truth, I.E, black metal artists’ often used contrived stage names not for the necessity of concealing their identities, but rather to personalize the music, independently represent themes they were in alignment with, and to personify those themes. For example, “Dead,” an artist killed in the 90s, was described as an reclusive individual who had a fascination with death. Accordingly, his stage name. In fact, this very use of specific stage names represents a way for listeners of the genre to specify persons within the music, and assign them characteristics. Thereby, I’d say this directly contradicts your claims.
2. You never address one of the fundamental aspects of black metal, or, at least, when you do it is in passing. That would be religion, or, more specifically, the rejection of some religions and the promotion of other belief systems. Primarily, this took the form of Satanism, and the rejection of Christianity. Satanism, not being a specific religion, but more a philosophy, could be represented much by Paganistic mythologies such as Norse mythology, and the themes of Satanism, individualism, self-fulfillment, etc, are all represented by the music and by the subject matter addressed in black metal songs. This was more than lyrical presentation; it was heavily contingent upon the listener being of similar beliefs and drew upon these to give the music not only meaning, but also power.
Furthermore: “There was once a moment in time when black metal, like all great artistic movements strove to express something eternal, whether that was the paradoxical juxtaposition of beauty and death, the joy in battle and the growth that ensues due to struggle, or the essentially inexpressible infinite cosmos.”
This statement implies an attempt to explore the cosmos, the supreme, leading then to the extrapolation that black metal sought to explore the divine, the godlike, while in contrast the genre was primarily originated to blasphame the cosmic, to reject it. As stated by Gaal of the black metal band Gorgoroth, “Originally black metal wasn’t for the listener, it wasfor us.”

I’d be interested to see how you respond.

]]> By: Hessian [ Heavy Metal Music and Culture ] :: Contact http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-555 Hessian [ Heavy Metal Music and Culture ] :: Contact Tue, 25 May 2010 07:28:33 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-555 [...] Reverence and irreverence are both omnipresent concepts in metal, quite paradoxically.  Religious and Latinate language are commonplace, as well as Christian symbols (indeed, as far back as even the very name of Black Sabbath), all in a seeming effort to denounce Judeo-Christianity and a false “afterworld”.  Having demolished and destroyed that which comes from the world of light, it puts in the place of this over-arching after-purpose often a Nietzschean, Pagan, or occultist outlook , all of which offer deep reverence towards life, a hunger for experience, a desire for Being, disregarding dualistic ways of perception and morality.  Consider the classic lines from Morbid Angel’s “Immortal Rites”.  It seems rather than metal being a rejection of all things religious (as it is too often made out to be), it is a yearning for a deeper spirituality, for true religion.  The obsession with the occult and pre-Christian is not simply a convenient weapon to arm oneself against the corruption of values that many found abhorrent in Christianity, but a path in its own right towards different ones, towards Being. [...] [...] Reverence and irreverence are both omnipresent concepts in metal, quite paradoxically.  Religious and Latinate language are commonplace, as well as Christian symbols (indeed, as far back as even the very name of Black Sabbath), all in a seeming effort to denounce Judeo-Christianity and a false “afterworld”.  Having demolished and destroyed that which comes from the world of light, it puts in the place of this over-arching after-purpose often a Nietzschean, Pagan, or occultist outlook , all of which offer deep reverence towards life, a hunger for experience, a desire for Being, disregarding dualistic ways of perception and morality.  Consider the classic lines from Morbid Angel’s “Immortal Rites”.  It seems rather than metal being a rejection of all things religious (as it is too often made out to be), it is a yearning for a deeper spirituality, for true religion.  The obsession with the occult and pre-Christian is not simply a convenient weapon to arm oneself against the corruption of values that many found abhorrent in Christianity, but a path in its own right towards different ones, towards Being. [...]

]]> By: PoD-Stas http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-527 PoD-Stas Sat, 08 May 2010 16:32:12 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-527 Wow. I don't like black metal, bur I think, that you have done a great job :) really Wow. I don’t like black metal, bur I think, that you have done a great job :) really

]]> By: GentlemanOfTheMorningAsses http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-526 GentlemanOfTheMorningAsses Fri, 07 May 2010 06:10:13 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-526 \m/ \m/

]]> By: los http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-525 los Thu, 06 May 2010 12:06:46 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-525 Agreed. Concise and elucidative, very much appreciated. Agreed. Concise and elucidative, very much appreciated.

]]> By: magog http://www.deathmetal.org/2010/black-metal-and-anonymity-a-traditionalist-perspective/comment-page-1#comment-524 magog Wed, 05 May 2010 02:11:41 +0000 http://www.deathmetal.org/?p=1855#comment-524 Wow, excellent article. Keep up the good work. Wow, excellent article. Keep up the good work.

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