Metal interview web zine Bardo Methodology interviewed Manuel Trummer, guitarist of the heavy metal band Atlantean Kodex today about herbs, psychedelia, mythology, and how Julius Evola inspired Dio’s “Ride the Tiger”. Want to find out what Trummer thinks of witches, psychedelia, and megalithic archaeological sites? Let’s find out!
Lord Wind – Atlantean Monument
Probably the best work from Eastclan group since 1998, this release culminates the pagan dreamlike melodies that have been appearing in Graveland and Lord Wind releases. Over an hour long, it represents the best music currently available for those who long for the society of honor that ruled long ago, before dualistic religions, technology and finance took over our lives.
Read the review: Lord Wind – Atlantean Monument
Article by David Rosales.
I. The Myth of Progress
Each epoch in human history is affected by the myths that define its own attitude; myths that could be defined as foundational illusions on which the dogmas of the time are based. For us, that myth is progress itself and the consequent air of superiority that comes with it. Having arrived at a postmodernist stage, this criticism of modernity is nothing new, but at the same time, nothing has been done about it so that we still suffer the same symptoms. This is one of the maladies of postmodernism: an even greater contempt for other epochs in its supposed abstraction from prejudices, which creates an illusory special place whence a new prejudice against everything and all is provisioned, whence nothing is actually properly addressed or solved only haphazardly patched over.
We call it the myth of progress not because we believe that improvement is impossible, but because the word has become so much a staple of modernity that it is assumed that our “progress” applies to many more areas than it actually does. The only clear advantage we have over humanity in the past is our clear technological advantage, summarized in more precise knowledge of scientific mechanics1. We have a bigger sword in hand and know how to use it.
The average, modern man also considers we have a moral advantage over the barbarism and superstition of the past. He does not consider his own moral assumptions as spurious. That is always reserved for the other. This contradiction is especially obvious in the secular humanist values that currently dominate the sphere of Western politics and popular opinion. Religion (by which they are usually referring to Christianity and sometimes to Islam if the critics themselves be Christian) is vilified as leading to a dulling of the senses; Catch phrases originally belonging to the Marxist left (“opium of the masses”) are embedded into popular consciousness.
Both the left and right base their ideologies on different interpretations of the modern myth of progress and the false sense of moral superiority thereof. The humanist values that both presume to uphold were born out of Christian Reformist philosophy. Consequently Aristotelianism (philosophy for those not philosophically inclined) plays a prominent role in modernist attitudes, contributing a materialist kind of Naturalism. All this is patched up with some apparently arbitrary morality (actually completely arising from popular Judeo-Christian thought) designed to make individuals feel safe and good about themselves independently of reality. This is secular humanism.
II. Predestination and Inevitability
What we may take from this realization is that no matter how much we learn, possess or discover, we are still products of the most recent past. We are the result of the uninterrupted flow of historical events, from a hypothetical primordial cause or an infinite set of cycles, to the present. The degree and the nature of success of independent enterprise of any kind is wholly dependent on the variable states at that point in time within the cosmic flow of events due to the immensity of the world with respect to a single human being and the fact that individual wills reside within individuals only.
The degree of success obviously refers to the magnitude of the same: its overall effect throughout the course of time. The nature of success depends on how success is defined. Whether you judge it by its popular acceptance, its practical application by the rulers irrespective of the opinion of the masses, by its effects correlation with the original goals of the enterprise. Quantization of success leads to lossy reductionism so an integral assessment of degree of success is based on relatively arbitrary judgements. In parallel, the judgement of the nature of success is based on ideology, itself dependent on how individuals choose to interpret reality and to what degree that interpretation follows logically from that reality. This interpretation is applied to a perception of reality, not to reality itself. This is a distinction too few make, unfortunately leading to grave misconceptions where perception and interpretation are confounded
Words may provide false solace in that colloquial language expressions seldom express what we mean precisely. Words are misleading. The statement “We are products of our past” may be taken far more lightly than it ought to be. Many take it to mean that our present physical conditions result from the decisions of our predecessors, which is true. However, a popular belief is that our minds may roam completely free and that our freedom of choice and thought (supposedly superior that of animals) grants us the power to change the current tide of events. What is not often mentioned is that the force necessary to break this tide of social developments is proportional to the degree of change to be implemented.
This struggle between established flow and forced change occurs not only on the physical plane but on the mental one as well. The state of thoughts and conceived possibilities are wholly dependent on both social exposure (all-around learning) and genetic proclivity2. Our thoughts are dependent on the past and subject to it. In opposition to this naturalist point of view stands the idea of our minds arising from an immortal spirit emanating from a divine source standing outside the universe. Modernism is against anything supernatural, so it arrives silently this contradiction only to casually avert its eyes from it.
III. Innovation and Establishment in Metal
Most of us understand metal as a non-complacent artistic movement that tends towards innovation in order to reformulate itself so that it is never trapped by convention. This reluctance the genre displays to entrapment by academic stiffness has worked miracles and produced true masterpieces of contemporary art, unrecognized as such by the public at large and masturbatory academia. Nevertheless we must be on guard, since that same rebelliousness may hinder the movement and ground it in something that is more of a childish rejection of discipline. Childish as Metal has moved well beyond its birth rites and is now rather well-defined in its limits, even though these cannot be formulated in a scientific manner.
The impetus towards forward movement coupled with an ignorance of true artistic relevance results in an exaggerated attention toward overtly “progressive” outfits and a dismissal of those which seem aesthetically grounded in tradition. Logic plays little role in this ideological and emotional thought process. While it should be easy to conclude that traditional aesthetics are surer to produce higher quality results given the collectively accumulated experience they embody, there is a tendency to think that what is of the past belongs to the past and that today needs an “updated” version. There is an Apple product consumerism applied to the general expectation of artistic expression here.
Metalheads arbitrarily select contradictory dogmas by which to shape their judgement of the art, reflecting the values of the modern and post-modernist contexts up-to-date headbangers inhabit. According to these “progressive” revisionists, genre guidelines and ideology must evolve and evolution means progress. Progress must lead to secular value. Music, furthermore, must reflect this openness and disavowal of encumbering tradition. In opposition to them stand the masses of staunch metalheads that may not complicate themselves with artsy wordiness, but who are intuitively connected to the deeper nature of metal, and defend its traditions through emotion.
IV. The Value of Well-Established Genres
As previously mentioned, the value of tradition is the collective experiences it represents. It is the result of trial and error, the remembrance of individual illumination, and the time-tested efficiency of its connection to human nature3. Tradition is a powerful weapon on which greatness is built but it is also only wealth and potential. Each generation and individual must utilize it to manifested their energy in motion.
That genres and movements decay is not an effect of tradition, but of what Prozak likes to call “crowdism“. In attacking tradition and glorifying the scene, we would only be achieving exactly the opposite effect of what we presume to. This follows directly from a reluctance to place responsibility on individuals and instead blame abstract concepts such as institutions, ideologies, and traditions. Tradition blossoms into works of great beauty when well-tended and lovingly nurtured, showcasing a wondrously creative fecundity possible only at higher levels of development.
The quality in fertility of worthy traditions may be obfuscated from common understanding as to understand higher-level concepts and representations, one has to have grasped the basics. Most people do not have the disposition towards investing effort to perceive and appropriately receive these higher qualities. Instead, they opt for superficial variations of what they can already understand. Artists that have been forgotten given such a short-sighted mentality include classical and romantic Nordic composers such as Franz Berwald, whose emotionally-stirring symphonies are virtually unmatched in their compact efficiency and inconspicuously thorough treatment of emotions.
In metal, the false dichotomy between traditional stagnation and innovative flare has wreaked havoc: only a handful of people seem to appreciate quality and creativity irrespective of the degree of adherence to traditional aesthetics. Tradition is best appreciated as a more abstract concept that can be traced from the aesthetics. Judgement of quality should not be independent of either, but flexible in taking account of an overall context. The following are a few albums whose adherence to a traditionalist but creative paradigm has won them little love from the masses. These have remained in relative obscurity despite their meaningful contributions to metal:
Serpent Ascending – The Enigma Unsettled (2011)
Atlantean Kodex – The Golden Bough (2010)
Written on the morning of the 22nd, April 2016, close to the land where the sun rises, while listening to Iron Maiden’s ‘Somewhere in Time’.
1 Theories on the origin and underlying nature of reality in physics and chemistry continue to remain metaphysical even if supported and represented in equations. This is an important point towards realizing the limitations of quantification-based science and the illogical idea that if one cannot measure something visually with a ruler then it isn’t relevant.
2 The idea of genetically-based mental faculties is ignored and frowned upon by modern dogma. It is detested and rejected despite severely inconclusive experimental data demonstrating natural differences, not a lack of them. An emotional vilification ensues because the idea of inherent (and therefore beyond our control) differences in capacity does not bide well with the religious commandment that “All men are created equal.” This same idea has been upheld by pseduo-scientific theories produced under both democracy and communism, political paradigms that are themselves entirely dependent on the truthfulness of this concept. It is difficult to avoid seeing a clear conflict of interests here; an out-of-hand scientific protectionism of dogma through sponsored and biased logistic and political support is the rule.
3 The perception of patterns and the effects of music through their interaction with our biological make-up in the ever-moving sequence of its unique states in time.
Article (obviously) by David Rosales
Five years have elapsed since 2010, a year that seemed to mark a slight renewal in creative forces, a kind of premonition of a metal renaissance that came after 15 years of horrid decadence following the decease of black metal as a movement. By 2013 this force was still incipient but already showed potential for future development as acts with more refined views about composition grounded themselves in tradition, promising to build monuments to a past glory for future times. Musicians from the metal underground’s classical era also formed the bulk of this rebirth, either through perfection or purification of their own take on the art.
The last two years have seen a manner of steady output that is weakened in quantity of quality releases, little manifest presence to speak of, with a few exceptions. The same can be said of the years between 2010 and 2013. This seems to be in accordance with a 3-year pendulum swing as the small cycle of metal. The long one probably signaling stronger points of birth and decay – probably decades: 1970-birth, 1980-underground, 1990-golden era, 2000-dark ages, 2010-renaissance.
It was a different time, and when Slayer, Metallica and Iron Maiden were doing their thing at the beginning of the 1980s, metal was also at a mainstream high with many poopoo acts dominating the scene. When mainstream metal drowns in its filth at the end of the decade and the 90s leave them with unmetal metal like Pantera or Soundgarden is when the underground rears its head in greater numbers.This coincides a little with what is happening now, as nu-funderground and mainstream whoring like female-fronted so-called metal flourishes in numbers just as the shock rock and glam metal (hard rock) plague in the time of Slayer.
To make matters more complicated, we have the internet, along with other means of communication and technology that allow for pockets of both good and bad music to survive with less regard to overall trends. Metal is not yet at another apocalyptic end of an era like the one that saw the explosion of death metal, we may have to wait another decade for that, but there is rise not dissimilar to the rise of underground NWOBHM and soon after speed metal. The next ebbing of the tide is at hand, but not yet its climax. What changes is not the fact that there is or there isn’t more mainstream crap, but how much excellent underground music there is. The year 1990 was a very special time marker that signaled the advent of a climax low for the mainstream and climax high for the underground.
Now, that we posit the existence of such critical years does not mean that no excellent albums occur outside of them, but that there is a sort of genre-wide, or community-wide, perhaps, pulse that pushes general tendencies. Now, according to this idea, the next “big year” in the small cycle would be 2016. Below we give an overview of these so-called big years and some band releases we are looking forward to this year.
What are your expectations in metal releases in 2016?
A quick reference to distinguished metal works in the ‘pulse’ years. Not especially comprehensive.
- Black Sabbath – Master of Reality
1974: (Not really metal, Black Sabbath is WAY ahead)
- Deep Purple – Stormbringer
- Rush – Rush
- King Crimson – Red (Editor’s note: Probably closer in spirit to future metal than others)
- Judas Priest – Sin After Sin
- Motörhead – Motörhead
- Iron Maiden – Iron Maiden
- Black Sabbath – Heaven and Hell
- Angel Witch – Angel Witch
- Cirith Ungol – Cirith Ungol
- Metallica – Kill ‘Em All
- Slayer – Show No Mercy
- Iron Maiden – Piece of Mind
- Mercyful Fate – Melissa
- Manilla Road – Crystal Logic
- Manowar – Into Glory Ride
- Slayer – Reign in Blood
- Metallica – Master of Puppets
- Kreator – Pleasure to Kill
- Morbid Angel – Abominations of Desolation
- Sepultura – Morbid Visions
- Fates Warning – Awaken the Guardian
- Candlemass – Epicus Doomicus Metallicus
- Sepultura – Beneath the Remains
- Morbid Angel – Altars of Madness
- Bolt Thrower – Realm of Chaos
- Voivod – Nothingface
- Helstar – Nosferatu
- Powermad – Absolute Power
- Rigor Mortis – Freaks
- Pestilence – Consuming Impulse
- Burzum – Burzum
- At the Gates – The Red in the Sky is Ours
- Demigod – Slumber of Sullen Eyes
- Morpheus Descends – Ritual of Infinity
- Therion – Beyond Sanctorum
- Sinister – Cross the Styx
- Amorphis – The Karelian Isthmus
- Deicide – Legion
- Incantation – Onward to Golgotha
- Atrocity – Longing for Death
- Autopsy – Mental Funeral
- Cadaver – …In Pains
- Asphyx – Last One on Earth
- Cenotaph – The Gloomy Reflections of Our Hidden Sorrows
- Darkthrone – A Blaze in the Northern Sky
- Emperor – Wrath of the Tyrant
- Graveland – In the Glare of Burning Churches
- Immortal – Diabolical Full Moon Mysticism
- Sacramentum – Finis Malorum
- Skepticism – Stormcrowfleet
- Suffocation – Pierced from Within
- Vader – De Profundis
- Gorgoroth – The Antichrist
- Graveland – Thousand Swords
- Summoning – Minas Morgul
- Deicide – Once Upon the Cross
- Sacramentum – Far Away from the Sun
- Immortal – Battles in the North
- Abigor – Nachthymmen (From the Twilight Kingdom)
- Funeral – Tragedies
- Dissection – Storm of the Light’s Bane
- Iced Earth – Burnt Offerings
- Gorguts – Obscura
- Vader – Black to the Blind
Incantation – Diabolical Conquest
- Dawn – Slaughtersun
- Sorcier des Glaces – Snowland
- Angelcorpse – Exterminate
- Blind Guardian – Nightfall in Middle-Earth
- Symphony X – Twilight of the Gods
- Rhapsody – Symphony of Enchanted Lands
- Suffocation – Despise the Sun
- Absurd – Asgardsrei
- Soulburn – Feeding on Angels
- Arghoslent – Galloping Through the Battle Ruins
- Master – Faith is in Season
- Skepticism – Lead and Aether
- Gorguts – From Wisdom to Hate
- Absu – Tara
- Martyr – Extracting the Core
- Lost Horizon – Awakening the World
- Deeds of Flesh – Mark of the Legion
- Averse Sefira – Battle’s Clarion
- Graveland – Raise Your Sword!
- Krieg – The Black Plague
- Avzhia – The Key of Throne
- Quo Vadis – Defiant Imagination
- Blotted Science – The Machinations of Dementia
- Avzhia – In My Domains
- Krieg – The Isolationist
- Burzum – Belus
- Divine Eve – Vengeful and Obstinate
- Atlantean Kodex – The Golden Bough
- Graveland – Cold Winter Blades
- Profanatica – Disgusting Blasphemies Against God
- Autopsy – The Tomb Within
- Overkill – Iron Bound
- Decrepitaph – Beyond the Cursed Tombs
- Black Sabbath – 13
- Condor – Nadia
- Graveland – Thunderbolts of the Gods
- Satan – Life Sentence
- Argus – Beyond the Martyrs
- Autopsy – Headless Ritual
- Profanatica – Thy Kingdom Cum
- Imprecation – Satanae Tenebris Infinita
- Deströyer 666? (Editor’s note: I have my doubts about this one’s possible… transcendence)
Heavy-Doom Metal, as I like to call everything that is merely slowed down heavy metal, is not known for being fertile ground for originality. It is a rather narrow sub-genre (more like sub-subgenre) which gives its adherents a very specific and rather primitive set of tools to work with and is at this point a retro-worship of classic and original acts like Candlemass. Hailing from Pennsylvania, USA, Crypt Sermon make no attempt to break off from this role of obvious emulation.
Out of the Garden should by no means be simply reduced to Candlemass-worship, but the influence is unmistakable. This is encouraging as one listens to the album for the first time and finds all the bells and whistles in the right places. The big, epic, long-drawn choruses, the guitar melodies, the climatic solos. It all harks back to the “catchy” selling points of Candlemass.
Once the brume has dissipated as the winds of repeated listens blow in, one realizes that this is everything Out of the Garden has to offer. This makes it a great release for those who want Candlemass without the trouble of having to digest all the meat of acts like Atlantean Kodex. The casual fan of epic heavy metal will have a blast with this new release.
Azermedoth Records will release Chants of Pagan War: The Official Tribute to Graveland in July of 2014. The 2CD limited to 1000 units will feature other bands covering Graveland favorites from past and present.
Line up and tracklist (as of February 12, 204):
1. MOLOCH (UKRA) “Intro”
2. ORNAMENTS OF SIN (FRA) “In The Glare Of Burning Churches”
3. RAVENSBRUCK (USA) “The Night Of Fullmoon” from the “In The Glare Of Burning Churches” album
4. HIRAETH (USA) “Through The Occult Veil” from the “In The Glare Of Burning Churches” album
5. DIE WILDE JAGD (POL/HUN) “For Pagan and Heretic Blood” from the “In The Glare Of Burning Churches” album
6. YAOCUICATL (MEX) “Intro” from the “Celtic Winter” album
7. DARKEST GROVE (USA) “Call Of The Black Forest” from the “Celtic Winter” album
8. SAD (GRE) “Hordes Of Empire” from the “Celtic Winter” album
9. FOREST OF DOOM (MEX) “The Gates To The Kingdom Of Darkness” from the “Celtic Winter” album
10. KROLOK (SLOVK) “Barbarism Returns” from the “Carpathian Wolves” album
11. GRAFVOLLUTH (USA) “The Time Of Revenge” from the “Thousand Swords” album
12. TM (FRA) “Black Metal War” from the “Thousand Swords” album
13. ERESHKIGAL (MEX) “White Hand´s Power” from the “Following The Voice Of Blood” album
14. PROPAST (SERB) “Thurisaz” from the “Following The Voice Of Blood” album
15. AKASHAH (USA) “Raise The Swords” from the “Following The Voice Of Blood” album
16. SLEZA (POL) “Sons Of Fire and Steel” from the “Immortal Pride” album
17. PULSAR COLONY (USA) “Sacrifice For Honour” from the “Immortal Pride” album
18. HNIKARR (USA) “Tyrants Of Cruelty” from the “Creed Of Iron” album
19. HOLY PORTRAIT (USA) “White Beasts Of Wotan” from the “Creed Of Iron” album
20. UNTO ASHES (USA) “Source Of My Power” from the split CD with HONOR “Raiders Of Revenge”
21. HERMITAGE (UK) “Jewel Of Atlanteans” from the “Memory and Destiny” album
If you are interested in paying tribute to Graveland with a track for enclosure on this forthcoming work, send an email to Azermedoth Records with the name of your band and the track you will record.
We were fortunate to get some time for a chat with Dean Swinford, author of Death Metal Epic I: The Inverted Katabasis. As a person with extensive experience in both death metal and literature, Swinford provides a great deal of insight into both.
You’ve walked dual paths in this life, both metal and literature. Do you see any parallels between them?
I definitely see lots of parallels between the two. Indirectly, you can find groups in any metal subgenre that work with myths or legends of some kind. More directly, so many metal songs have connections to specific books and stories by modern authors.
Beyond that, so many of the thank you lists in the liner notes specifically mention authors and books that influenced the musicians. I’ve never seen that done so consistently in any other modern music genre.
Both metal and literature are ways to, and I’m paraphrasing Dante a bit here, walk through the dark forest. I guess what I’m doing is joining the two so that I can write about the ways that the two paths become one. Just a note about the images in the interview — I’ve included some sketches from my journals to go along with the questions. I draw a lot when I’m writing and I think the images help to show how I worked through and continue to work through ideas for the books.
Your book, Death Metal Epic I: The Inverted Katabasis, is a fictional account of early 1990s Florida death metal — but it’s clear it was influenced by events that were far from fictional. What inspired this book, and how does it connect with your own story?
You’re right that the book has a number of features taken from my own life, but I’ve put them within the context of someone in an early 1990s Florida death metal band. I grew up in Miami and I was the music director of the college radio station at Florida International University.
A friend of mine did the metal show at University of Miami, and he also ran the metal section at Yesterday and Today Records. As you know from your experience in college radio, it’s pretty thrilling to talk to people from the labels, meet people from bands you like, and, of course, get music sent to you in the mail.
The places in the book are places I’ve lived in or traveled to, so in that sense, it’s a way for me to revisit different parts of my life. I’ve always liked coming of age stories and novels about artists and musicians. This seemed like a way to write that kind of book, but in a context that I’m familiar with. Also, I wanted to write something relatively light and funny that still dealt with some deeper themes.
I used to write stories that were more surreal or fantastic in their approach. I still use that kind of voice for the “metametal” chapters in the book. As I got older, I started to realize that it was more interesting and satisfying to write a story about every day events, about getting annoyed at your friend or suffering through the stomach flu.
One of the things I’ve always liked about metal is that it tends to be very escapist. I like songs about dragons, ancient rites, and forgotten deities precisely because I don’t encounter those things on a daily basis. I guess if I’m doing anything new in the book, I’m taking that escapism and juxtaposing it with the kinds of struggles a lot of people seem to encounter as they move into their twenties.
Do you think death metal was inspired by literature? If so, what, and how did it shape the genre?
Oh, sure. I mean, if Tolkien’s orcs made folk music of their own, what would it sound like? When one of Lovecraft’s protagonists hears the batrachian choir that tips him into madness, what does he hear? And I think that it contributes to literature through what you could call the “poetics” of metal lyrics and the textual features of liner notes—the mix of images and lyrics paired with personal notes and lists from the musicians.
You mentioned in an email to me that you’ve found some metal lyrics that remind you of Neoplatonism. Could you explain what you mean?
Neoplatonism refers to the synthesis of pagan and Christian philosophy into a kind of mystical and theological framework that had a pretty broad influence until the early modern scientific revolution. I write about its influence on the astronomer Johannes Kepler in another book of mine, Through the Daemon’s Gate. I guess because I’m interested in Neoplatonism, I see traces of it everywhere. I don’t want to go into too much detail on this, but one specific example I could talk about is pretty evident in Inquisition‘s Ominous Doctrines of the Perpetual Mystical Macrocosm. The idea of the macrocosm influencing the microcosm comes directly from Neoplatonism. The concept that space is a kind of tomb is evident in classical literature as well. In Cicero’s Dream of Scipio, the narrator ascends into space, where he speaks with the ghost of his dead grandfather. It’s no accident that the last word of each part of Dante’s Commedia is “stars.”
Another idea that Dagon mentions in the liner notes is what he calls the “eternal quest for infernal tone.” That idea of the true disciple uncovering the most diabolic tone is linked to the thematic concern of the album, which is the power that the macrocosm exerts on those of us on earth.
In Neoplatonism, the interlocking spheres of the cosmos produce tones that are perfect and inspire order in the sublunary realm. That’s the mystical element of Pythagoras’s theories on tonal proportions. The key shift from Pythagoras to Dagon is that, while the Ptolemaic universe was seen as orderly and divine, Inquisition’s musings tend more towards a contemplation of the universe as infinite chaos.
Do you still listen to metal? If so, what inhabits your player these days? How does this differ from the hazy glory days of the early 1990s?
Of course. I still get excited when I discover a band. Plus, I do most of my writing while listening to music, so I like to get something new as a writing reward when I meet some kind of deadline. I just picked up the two Atlantean Kodex albums and I am loving those. It helps that their myth-themed approach is just the kind of thing that I write about in my book. I mean, the second one is based on the same Robert Graves book that my character Juan is obsessed with, so I had to check it out!
I’m also really into some of the newer Inquisition albums, as mentioned above. Other current favorites include Obscura, Mournful Congregation, and this Dutch doom band Officium Triste. Of course, I still listen to all the classics, too. I listen to Candlemass and Solitude Aeternus a lot. As I’m writing these books, I try to listen to music that corresponds most with the plot. So, right now I’m trying to listen to things that meet the approval of Svart, the mastermind of Desekration.
Do you detect any influences from Gothic or Romantic literature in death metal? If these aren’t direct influences, do you think the two genres converge on similar ideas because they’re writing about similar experiences/concepts?
I think you’re probably right. You could probably catalog a lot of specific references, everything from the Frankenstein samples on Morpheus Descends‘ Ritual of Infinity to the painting by Caspar David Friedrich on the new Atlantean Kodex album. As far as similar experiences and concepts, I’d say that metal lyrics, like Gothic and Romantic lit, use fantasy as an indirect way to represent complex emotions like longing and despair.
You’re writing a paper on prosopopoeia, which I’m told is a rhetorical device in which a speaker or writer communicates by speaking through another object or person. How do you think this applies to metal?
Yeah, that’s right. I’m working on a paper that looks at corpsepaint as a kind of mask, especially given statements by Dead that he used corpsepaint to become or give voice to a victim of the Black Death. What’s interesting is that prosopopoeia is a device that seems to clearly apply to black metal performance — Dead popularized corpsepaint, but so many bands still use it — but the rhetorical device is also evident in the lyrics on De Mysteriis. There are more than a few examples in the lyrics of address from the point of view of a long-dead spirit. I think that’s interesting in the context of medievalism, or the ways that contemporary culture still uses or speaks through the Middle Ages as a way of talking about our own time.
Do you think this type of “mask” applies to black metal and hardcore punk more than other genres? Why would a genre need to conceal the origin of its thoughts — do you think that determination lies more with the band, or what the audience can tolerate?
I think that idea of masking occurs in every genre to some extent and probably waxes and wanes over time. Right now, it seems like it’s often used more as a genre marker than anything. You can buy an action figure of Lars Umlaut, the Guitar Hero character modeled off of the guys in Immortal.
In The Inverted Katabasis, you utilize a literary figure known as the katabasis. What is this and how does it apply to death metal and other underground genres?
Right — the katabasis is the mythical journey to Hell. It’s just a name to describe a kind of journey that lots of mythic heroes undertake. In most cases, it’s linked in some way to a quest against death or against the realization of one’s mortality. Orpheus goes to Hell to rescue his lady, but it doesn’t work out so well. He ends up wandering the world like a depressive, plucking doomy odes on his lyre until he gets ripped apart by Maenads. Dante’s journey into the underworld is a katabasis as well.
So, an inverted katabasis is a journey out of hell. There’s a word for that, too. It’s called an “anabasis.” But I liked inverted katabasis better because it sounded more like something that could work as an album title. For David Fosberg, the inverted katabasis is an escape from the minimum wage hell of his life in Miami. Plus, my ironic treatment of the trope helps to put the book in its true genre, the mock epic.
Several of the people I’ve talked to about this book have found in David Fosberg an uncanny portrait of the years following a successful second-tier death metal release that pushed the limits but never got big. Why do you think so many of these bands vanished into obscurity?
Thanks for that. In a lot of ways, I’m writing about metal, but I think that this trajectory is probably pretty common for people in any number of fields. The moment I’m writing about in the books goes from the time that death metal was big enough for bands like Napalm Death, Carcass, Cathedral, Godflesh, and Morbid Angel to get some major label attention to the influx of black metal that seemed to bring everything back to small, purposefully obscure labels.
In a lot of ways, this seems similar to the way the skateboarding industry crashed in the early nineties. As far as all the great bands that vanished into obscurity, my guess is that it’s because life is hard and, ultimately, releasing an album (or a book, for that matter) isn’t going to change that.
Do you think death metal has a place in education? If you were to teach death metal, say as a form of literature or art, how would you introduce it to your students?
Sure. There are a number of people working in that direction. Martin Jacobsen at West Texas A & M teaches a course on metal and literature. There’s an International Society for Metal Music Studies. Nicola Masciandaro and others have done a lot of work on theorizing black metal. I think if I were to link the two in a class, I’d do it as part of a broader exploration of medievalism.
You’ve moved on from death metal, but haven’t quite left it behind; it seems to live in your thoughts. What do you think is the enduring appeal of death metal? Did it have an artistic or generational statement to make that was profound then and remains so today?
That’s a good question. I think the way it pushes musical limits is important. Even with something like the speed of drumming featured in that recent Wall Street Journal article. For me, I’d say the connection to myth is really important. I remember seeing Nile a few years ago and it felt like they had, if even only temporarily, resurrected the dead gods. That process has long been an important part of human culture.
In another interview, you said that your own musical project had “layers of ambient keyboards and lyrics taken from myths, the sagas, and so forth.” Do you think you were ahead of the times, having seen how black metal shifted in that direction after its initial thrust (Neptune Towers, Beherit, Ildjarn, Wardruna, Burzum)?
I wish! I recorded it in a radio station studio like the one I describe in the book. By the time I started to figure out what I was doing, I had to return my studio key in a situation pretty similar to what happens to Juan. I still think there’s a way to use this approach to make something interesting. Maybe someday.
Yours appears to be one of the first entries in the “death metal literature” genre. Do you think this field is going to grow?
I think so. Since I’ve been getting my book out there, I’ve met a lot of people who seem really interested in the possibilities of metal lit, or whatever you want to call it. Kriscinda Lee Everitt has started a journal for metal themed fiction called Despumation Press, so anyone who has a story to tell should send in a submission.
Speaking of growing, I understand that The Inverted Katabasis is part of an ongoing series. How big does it get? Do you have fantasy worlds like Mordor and Hogwarts for us?
That’s right. The current plan is to do three books. What’s more metal than an epic trilogy, right? It might be even more metal if I never actually finish. I try to make the bands, characters, and albums in the books as convincing as I can so that they take on a life of their own. That’s probably one of my favorite parts of this. I really enjoy the creative process of inventing new band logos, albums, characters, and liner notes. Who knows? Maybe someday, someone will cover a Katabasis song or try to recreate the groundbreaking work of Astrampsychos.
What’s your next step in your career as a death metal writer — are you going to continue working on the books linearly, write short stories, or return to music and use it to accompany the next volume?
Right now, I’m trying to finish up the second book of the Death Metal Epic. The next one is going to be called The Goat Song Sacrifice. There will be new characters, new bands, new struggles for David Fosberg to endure.
Black metal drew to its camp many who experimented in extreme metal and punk but found themselves alienated by the ideas of the mainstream. Like fellow hybridizers Absurd, the intelligent Spear of Longinus found they wanted to borrow bits from many genres of extreme social rejection, and hoped to unify them around an ideology which explained both solid reasons for disliking society and suggested something positive in its stead. A roving ANUS.COM representative in Australia was able to catch up with these gents and exchange a few words.
In a time when it is popular to be ultra-black-metal in the modern sense, your music seems to have older inspirations. What bands and eras inspire your creation?
Camazotz: nowdays I listn to all kinds of stuff, though my ‘heyday’ was that fine time during the 80’s when the metal scene was at it’s best, say 82-89 or so. Sure there have been great releases at other times but the highest concentration was around these times especially as I like a lot of the punk/hardcore gear that was getting about at the time too. For example Discharge, The Exploited, etc etc. 80’s metal would of course be the likes of Destruction, Bathory, Frost, Possessed. Etc so in light of that , musik in this stlye must be alive with energy to get my enthusiasm. Modern proponents that have done this would be stuff like, Darkthrone, Burzum and earlier Emperor releases.
I feel that good metal should be more punk than metal to be good metal, if you can follow.
You see most modern metal feels lifeless to me, it has no particular focus apart from just being metal, whatever the hell that just exactly is …
Of course stuff like Wagner and trancendental compositions greatly inspire us now. For example Tibetan vocals, Indian sitar etc.The different ‘tribal’ styles that we still have which are in fact relics of occult teknikues/principles put into practice.
Paraplethon: Inspiring music would be that with a passion, a driving urge… honesty and integrity, that has something to say – either of a temporal or numinous nature, and has the ability to… affect and effect. THAT is inspiring, something of the like worth emulating. Metal, generally, hardly ever has any one of such worthwhile traits, let alone all of them, so at most it’s vaguely interesting but rarely inspiring…
The ‘outer reflects the inner’, the ‘muse-ik’ being one of the records of who, what and where we are – nothing more, nothing less.
What inspires the creation of individual songs: real world events, or thoughts and emotions?
Camazotz: ahhhhhh now that’s a profound question comerade, quite bluntly this stuff is a direct result of the dualastik clash between maya/atman, matter/antimatter.
what the Gnostiks call dualism.
What to us is ‘real’? is a chair real? Or, is the impression we receive of the chair , the chair(real)? If so, then what is the ‘origional’ chair, actually?
It is a result of the luciferian urge to regain the trancendental ‘throne’. The path of fools.
This material world is the ‘result’ of other ‘events’, the point being to get back to the ‘real’.
Break down ALL barriers, in fact, to die is best!
DIE, MY DARLING, die within oneself.
LIBERATION. The return to PLEROMA.
Paraplethon: Define ‘real’.
It seems you have attempted to blend the spiritual and the political into a single entity; to many of us, these seem inseparable in the first place. How did you come to the realization that this was the path for you?
Camazotz: the path told us so… obviously!
Yes these things are inseperable, just as matter is spirit. Energy, in a different format. BUT, they are of course something totally different to each other at the same time. That’s where things get tricky and humans fall apart, they loose unity/focus and ability to progress. This is the inbuilt striving to attain the “overman”.
The clash of the Titans!
This is touched upon briefly and enigmatikly in our track ” the lay of spartazen “, which will be included on the upcoming release “…And the swastikalotus”.
Paraplethon: Inseparable is the word. The recognition dawned with the realization that ‘All and Everything’ is inseparable. Vague allusions to begin with, experiencing it first-hand is… makes it so much more of a certainty… a most profound experience.
In this respect, it is not enough to say that we are dealing with a purely material and economic conquest. That view seems very superficial, for two reasons. In the first place, a land that is conquered on the material level also experiences, in the long run, influences of a higher kind corresponding to the cultural type of its conqueror. We can state, in fact, that European conquest almost everywhere sows the seeds of “Europeanization,” i.e., the “modern” rationalist, tradition-hostile, individualistic way of thinking. Secondly, the traditional conception of culture and the state is hierarchical, not dualistic. Its bearers could never subscribe, without severe reservations, to the principles of “Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s” and “My kingdom is not of this world.” For us, “Tradition” is the victorious and creative presence in the world of that which is “not of this world,” i.e., of the Spirit, understood as a power that is mightier than any merely human or material one.
This is a basic idea of the authentically traditional view of life, which does not permit us to speak with contempt of merely material conquests. On the contrary, the material conquest is the sign, if not of a spiritual victory, at least of a spiritual weakness or a kind of spiritual “retreat” in the cultures that are conquered and lose their independence. Everywhere that the Spirit, regarded as the stronger power, was truly present, it never lacked for means – visible or otherwise – to enable all the opponent’s technical and material superiority to be resisted. But this has not happened. It must be concluded, then, that degeneracy was lurking behind the traditional facade of every people that the “modern” world has been able to conquer. The West must then have been the culture in which a crisis that was already universal assumed its acutest form. There the degeneration amounted, so to speak, to a knockout blow, and as it took effect, it brought down with more or less ease other peoples in whom the involution had certainly not “progressed” as far, but whose tradition had already lost its original power, so that these peoples were no longer able to protect themselves from an outside assault.
– Baron Julius Evola, On the Secret of Degeneration
What experience or realizations do you hope to communicate through your music?
Camazotz: more light.
Buddhism, in the summarization of Herr Nietzsche, is a self-denying religion, where it seems that most of the western tradition is self-affirming, although not perhaps in the ultra-limited-focus of self-based religions (Judaism, Christianity). In your view, how do Buddhism and National Socialism spring from the same origin?
Camazotz: everything springs from the same source.
All good and evil, is in fact, evil and good.
But we can play with words all day, frederika and bhuddhism say the same things, they’ve used the same kinds of terms though with different definitions attached. Like we said before, this is where the humans cease to function appropriately.
For example the term ‘ego” some use this to denote the highest qualities , while some use it to denote the lowest infrastructures.
The “self” in the purest occult definition is a separate atom, free from its contaminated restricted material existence. ( Karma.)
The “self” is the purified/liberated “being” , free and purified of the gross material contamination. The actual “self” cannot be restricted to the tri-dimensional realm, that we are currently chained to.
This is alchemy, all of egypt.
Primal christianity eg. Gnosis, is probably the mediator needed here to make sense of these issues.
The goal of national socialism , the result that is intended to be achieved , is the superman.
The superman is the overman, the man that has overcome his limitations and regrown to a super (from our present involuted state) level of being.
A bhudda, or, bohdisatva depending on the level achieved.
Angel or Archangel, if you’d like to use these terms.
Some resonate with the uber and untermenschen terminologies, its all the same .
I would at this point encourage humans to find a nice rock under a tree on a mountain by a stream amd meditate your brains out on these issues.
Paraplethon: It is perhaps self-denying in order to be truly self-affirming; the movie ‘Fight Club’ deals with these concepts pretty well.
The terminology may differ between Buddhism and NS, or between NS and any other traditional philosophy, though ‘terminology’ is just that – an outer husk whose only use is an attempt to describe, or in some instances plainly label, the ‘inner guts’ – the unseen thing within that is the whole value and point to the philosophy. And further than that, NS being a modern re-formulation, in such a dire time and circumstances, was and is bound to be different.
Where they are similar, one and the same even, is their concern with the development of a greater wo/man; the advancement of wo/man, and the means by which to get there aren’t really all that far removed either.
The foundation of every true State is the transcendence of its own principle, namely the principle of sovereignty, authority, and legitimacy. This essential truth has been variously expressed in the course of history; if this truth was not recognized, the meaning of everything that belongs to political reality would be misunderstood, or at least distorted. Through the multifaceted variety of these forms we always find as a “constant” the notion of the State as the intrusion and the manifestation of a higher order, which is then actualized in a power. Therefore, every true political unity appears as the embodiment of an idea and a power, thus distinguishing itself from every form of naturalistic association or “natural right,” and also from every societal aggregation determined by mere social, economic, biological, utilitarian or eudemonistic factors.
In previous eras it was possible to speak of the sacred character of the principle of sovereignty and power, namely of the State. For instance, the ancient Roman notion of imperium essentially belonged to the domain of the sacred. This notion, in its specific meaning, even before expressing a system of territorial, supernatural hegemony, designated the pure power of command, the almost mystical power and auctoritas inherent in the one who had the function and quality of Leader: a leader in the religious and warrior order as well as in the order of the patrician family, the gens, and, eminently, of the State, the res publica. In the Roman world, which was intensely realistic (or, I should say, precisely because it was intensely realistic), the notion of this power, which is simultaneously auctoritas, always retained its intrinsic character of bright force from above and of sacred power, beyond the various and often spurious techniques that conditioned its access in different periods.
– Baron Julius Evola, Men Among the Ruins
Do you see the individual as existing outside of a political and social context, or necessarily as part of one, even when attempting to avoid the issue?
Camazotz: the individual is in fact multidualastik.
The idea is to be a part of this world, but not of it.
Be separate and observe, but also be productive and interactive.
This is the key. You need both polarites to proceed. Balance.
The individual or ‘self’ not to be confused with the human organism, should be somewhat “above” the mechanical systems, overseeing, if you will. Guiding.
You will after some time of practicing these tekniques be conscious of the seperation/observation, then you can really get to work.
Politiks and social environment are unavoidable, they are necessary for the revolution.
At the base end of the scale, they are the extent of most peoples ‘realities’. They are therefore necessary tools to be utilised. Fortunately those who ‘know’ can work towards something numinous.
Paraplethon: The very term ‘individual’ presupposes such. Though, probably more-so nowadays than in the past a person is wholly defined by their interaction with certain groups of people – socializing, and by their working/financial position, both of which, generally speaking, are accepted as going on to form the basis of a person’s ‘political persuasion’ – the ideas and concepts concerning the nature of society, the person and the environment they hold to be true, ‘the best’ and seemingly self-evident, there is more to it than base temporal factors.
There is in each person a unique and most vital element to their being, this is the essential spark that travels from incarnation to incarnation, the immortal animator of our being. It is variously referred to as ‘the Ego’, by Gurdjieff and many others; ‘the Essence’, Yeats called it the ‘Anti-Self’, and in Alchemical circles its one of the things going be the name of ‘sulphur’. With the recognition of the essence, the awakening process, and the nurturing of it – bringing it forth into full flower – that’s when the doors of perception really start to open, when we discover our extra senses and so forth.
This process, that we just as might call ‘individuation’, is however barred; the path is blocked by our accretion, whilst physically incarnate, of shallow, hollow, most ephemeral notions of our identity – such as was mentioned in the ‘socializing’ and ‘social strata’ circles – the region of the cult of the personality. These ‘psychological aggregates’ are rooted in our all too willing reckless identification solely with the material plane when we find ourselves physically incarnate. So in order to uncover the real, hidden essence that is our being, where the realm of UNDERSTANDING is to be found, rather than just “knowledge of this, that or the other”, the false impression of what we believe to be our identity must be sloughed off to allow our being to breathe. It was in this area, the ‘Golden Dawn’ had a test wherein the candidates had to converse without using any first personal pro-nouns; i, my etc, etc…
So, yes, people CAN be individuals if they choose to put the effort in, otherwise yes, we can be defined by a social and political context. As for ‘avoiding the issue’, the making of petty excuses or whatever to not deal with the situation as it stands; ‘because’ has fallen; “now is the time of the Fall of Because.”
What is your feeling regarding democracy as a system of government?
Camazotz: seemed like a good idea at the time …..
as with any other failing, generally speaking it is the human factor that fucks it. the untermensch ‘ego’ . most systems have something to offer , at least in theory. but if there is a fault, the human scun will exploit it.
Paraplethon: It does appear to be a good idea in theory. Perhaps it works only on the small scale in practice; medieval Iceland for example.
The most valuable insights are arrived at last; but the most valuable insights are methods.
All the methods, all the presuppositions of our contemporary science were for millennia regarded with the profoundest contempt; on their account one was excluded from the society of respectable people — one was considered as an “enemy of God,” as a reviler of the highest ideal, as “possessed.”
We have had the whole pathos of mankind against us — our conception of what “truth” should be, what service of truth should be, our objectivity, our method, our silent, cautious, mistrustful ways were considered perfectly contemptible —
At bottom, it has been an aesthetic taste that has hindered mankind most: it believed in the picturesque effect of truth, it demanded of the man of knowledge that he should produce a powerful effect on the imagination.
This looks as if an antithesis has been achieved, a leap made; in reality, the schooling through moral hyperbole prepared the way step by step for that milder of pathos that became incarnate in the scientific character —
The conscientiousness in small things, the self-control of the religious man were a preparatory school for the scientific character: above all, the disposition that takes problems seriously, regardless of the personal consequences —
– F.W. Nietzsche, The Will To Power
Which ancient societies do you respect most, and why?
Camazotz: atlantean and lemurian.
These are the ones which I have the most vivid recollections of. They were superior to our present era as humans involute instead of evolute, as opposed to what the corrupt ones would have us believe.
These were what we would call ‘high’ cultures as they were organicly minded, of course the atlantean degenerated to a material teknology based system which set the mood for our current situation of disaray .
Organik civilisation is spiritual civilisation.
Blood and soil.
This level of being had a totally different outlook to the present. In those times the human was the teknology to be perfected, not , an outside material construct for humans to dump their shortcomings on to create even more limitations to the acheivement of human potentials.
Less is more.
You see energy is matter and matter is spirit. Therefore energy is spirit. So why would one externalise spirit instead of working internally/esotericly? Why would one waste their ‘quota’ of immediate potential on external materialism??????? This is why the great civilisations of old look so backwards to the uninitiated, the advance is hidden to them.
Stone,timber etc these natural materials are infinately more powerful to work with and beneficial as they are still the living energy of the elements/elementals which reside therein. Blood and honour.
Paraplethon: None more-so than others. There is something to be learned/gained from ALL quarters; it si a very general statement though we had something in times pat that we’ve definitely gone and lost in the 20th Cent. However, it doesn’t do to dwell on ‘what once was’ and forget to live; the present is the only time worth our energies.
Machiavelli says it is better to be loved than hated, but much harder to be loved by the fickle nature of populations. Do you see this as being a sentiment of the original “fascist” ethos?
Camazotz: naturally ’tis better to be loved than hated.
Hate will destroy you. This is not to be confused with a healthy adversity, which promotes growth and strength.
Naturally fascism recognises the way populations behave, I think everyone would know this wouldn’t you? The trick is to achieve FOR the people, especially if they do not at the time recognise what is best for them. Fascism does this.
Paraplethon: Not particularly… it sounds more like something out of ‘the successful propagandists handbook’ or something. The sort of thing anyone remotely concerned with having good PR would take note of… hardly a ‘fascist ethos’ as such.
The everlasting qualities of Varna and family traditions of those who destroy their family are ruined by the sinful act of illegitimacy.
– The Bhagvad-Gita
The fascia, from which fascism derives its name, is a bundle of reeds with an axe head attached at their center; the symbolism is in theory that while sticks break individually, together they are strong. Is there any unity toward a common goal in modern governments?
Camazotz: of course! It is a new world order after all!
We could go into all kinds of discussions regarding parties , wings and all manner of political doctrine, and really I think most of them do at least have something positive to offer.
But they fail because of the human element.
Humans are not perfect, we must perfect the humanoid psychologicly/spiritually, to reflect that in the social environment.
This is what the movement should be working at.
This is what okkult NS and Fascism is all about.
This what all religions are about.
This is the heresy we embrace.
This is the REVOLUTION we instigate.
This is what we practice.
This is what we preach.
Paraplethon: Yep, ‘strength through unity’, ‘united we stand, divided we fall’ etc…
The ‘common goal’ they’re intent on scoring is the complete enslavement of humanity as an identity-less, racially indistinguishable mass of automatons.
As dire as the current situation is, that we are here talking openly about their nefarious aims is proof enough we’re not yet living through our darkest hour, though it is very dim, very grim.
However, what we are witness to isn’t a particularly united/common front; there are those in varying amounts of agreement, from the rabidness of the US, Israel and Australia to the more wary French and Russians to those who remain definitely outside the fold; Iraq and Libya for instance. It must be pointed out though it isn’t only those countries labelled ‘evil’ by the worlds punch-drunk bully – the US, that remain on the outer; there is a semi-autonomous region of Siberia, perhaps the last place on the planet since the fall of Tibet, where governmental decisions are guided by spiritual elders, in this case shamans, whose aims are more along the lines of freeing the mind and spirit rather than enslaving and controlling them. And as for the recent US actions designed to stamp out any opposition to its aims as mentioned above, well Nelson Mandela makes it clear where he stands; “They think they’re the only power in the world. They’re not and they’re following a dangerous policy. One country wants to bully the world… If you look at these matters, you will come to the conclusion that the attitude of the USA is a threat to world peace.” Newsweek, 10th Sept. 2002.
It’s the Kali-Yuga, revel in the dischord and strife…
Have you had any problems with labels, fans, clubs or others because of your political views?
we have had some interest from a bike club due to us using “their” image.
We have had trouble with certain skin movements.
We have had trouble with the media.
We have trouble with %98 of the musik community finding it next to impossible to get gigs, advertising, label interest etc. and that is including the ‘pagan’ metal heretiks!
Also certain magikle societys in all their illumination, don’t get it.
Herr Nietzsche referred to Christianity as a great evil that, were it not to exist, would have to be invented. He also said “that which does not kill me, makes me stronger” in regards to experience — in your view, what is the experience — both personal and cultural — of overcoming christianity, and what strength does it create?
Camazotz: sorry this question was lost somehow.
Paraplethon: Firstly, ‘christianity’ is a VERY loaded word, so you would have to begin by narrowing your scope and define exactly what sort of christianity here is to be overcome. An example of how much variance/difference there is in the christian experience is Origen of Alexandria, a church elder of the 2nd or 3rd cent., who at his death was officially deemed a saint. However, some time later – a few hundred years or so, Origens position was re-evaluated, it was determined his Neo-Platonism didn’t sit well with what the church had become and so his writings were banned, or burned, his sainthood was revoked and he was declared a heretic. The rather drastic change in the opinion of Origen mirrors the devolution of mass christianity as a whole, culminating with the final purge of the esoteric aspect of the religion in the 15th cent. or thereabouts, whereafter the ‘Church of Rome'(and its offshoots…) were more or less just the outer husks/the misunderstood whispers, not much more than some meaningless moral code.
Esoteric Christianity, the real ‘inner guts’ of the movement – that which gives real meaning and value to all the rituals, practices and moralizing of that outer husk – the Roman Church, was forced underground.
So what aspect of christianity is to be overcome? The outer, exoteric branch everyone is familiar with? Fine, if you were to do so, you’d be taking the first tentative steps towards realizing that old maxim ‘Know Thyself’.
At its core, Esoteric Christianity IS a method, a philosophy of overcoming, of overcoming oneself – sounds somewhat similar to Nietzsche doesn’t it? Of course the terminology is different, but who cares for the terminology, it’s merely an attempt to describe the heart of the matter, there’s bound to be differing terminology as every ones experience os going to be unique to themselves.
However, the heart of the matter IS the same.
Europe is about to outlaw “hate speech” online through a program named Princip, after the assassin who started World War I. Of what do you believe this is a portent, and how do you think it will be circumnavigation?
Camazotz: I knew this was on the drawing board, but had no idea it was to be implemented at this point. Surely people can see that this is unbalanced?
anything can be circumvented. That’s how the whole internet thing came about in the first place. I feel the ‘left’ in all their glory should be assissted in their efforts to save the free speech that is still available. By that I mean whatever factions are still opposing these actions. In fact there should be more work with the ‘left’ alltogether.
This is ignorance in full flight.
This we must fight.
Lest we face the great night.(again &again&again.)
Ignorance can only breed ignorance, fear , restriction etc.
There must be dialogue/interaction with all factions and cults to make any progress in this world.
Together we are strong.
A good lesson in the cosmik principle of recurrence here don’t you think? Nothing should be repressed, this is the tao, more light.
Just what constitutes hate speech etc? The talk of fools.
It’s like this race question.
Those who want to be separate should be separate, those who want to mix should mix. Quite simple really.
A good analogy would be the olympik games, and the drug testing/bans etc.
I think there should be separate events where the competitors can shoot up absolutely any shit into their organisms they want. Hell they can even get nuclear powered bioniks in these events for all I care, go for it. We will see where that leads.
But there must be room for purity too.
I would recommend keeping records though, I don’t fancy getting lined up with a sheilagh that has had some kinda ape genetiks crossed so she can win a gold medal at gymnastiks or something.
Paraplethon: A portent? Orwells ‘1984’, Huxleys ‘Brave New World’ – that’s what a constriction on open dialogue and criticism is a portent of.
Do you have any interest in encryption? Or religious cryptograms?
Camazotz: encryption is a tool to be utilised like any other at the correct time and place. Aside from the allegory and symbols of regular occultism/ alchemy etc I’ve not really looked at encryption etc.
I take it you mean stuff like ‘the bible code’ etc?
I have read some on the ‘real’ jesus and such nationalist type things if you mean these?
Of course all secret societys have their encrypted ‘codes’ too.
Sometimes you will find things in our releases if you were to be vigilant.
Of course you can take that to another level in that this world is illusion , so through using the tekniques of the esoterik warrior one would be working in this fashion , ja?
“That’s all she wrote,” the Finn said. “Didn’t finish it. Just a kid then. This thing’s a ceremonial terminal, sort of. I need Molly in here with the right word at the right time. That’s the catch. Doesn’t mean shit, how deep you and the Flatline ride that Chinese virus, if this thing doesn’t hear the magic word.”
“So what’s the word?”
“I don’t know. You might say what I am is basically defined by the fact that I don’t know, because I can’t know. I am that which knoweth not the word. If you knew, man, and told me, I couldn’t know. It’s hardwired in. Someone else has to learn it and bring it here, just when you and the Flatline punch through that ice and scramble the cores.”
“What happens then?”
“I don’t exist, after that. I cease.”
“Okay by me,” Case said.
“Sure. But you watch your ass, Case. My, ah, other lobe is on to us, it looks like. One burning bush looks pretty much like another.”
– William Gibson, Neuromancer
Are there any similarities in your view between the Qabbalah (pre-Judaic) and the tree of life in Nordic religions?
Camazotz: you need ask? Of course.
Paraplethon: They are differing cultural descriptions of the same phenomena; physical worlds coming into being and the polarity to such.
Buddhism and National Socialism both emphasize discipline and a rational, non-superstitious, non-dogmatic approach to decoding philosophy, nature and the sciences. Is this congruent with the beliefs of the west at this time, or has a contravening force taken over?
Camazotz: the west has tapped into and let loose many principles/powers that have taken on their own momentum/agenda. Some of these do indeed work against the agenda of liberation but it’s all part and parcel of the package deal we bought off god at that clearance sale a few years back … it is all encrypted on that nordik tree of life you were alluding too b4 ha ha.
Be alert as the sentry in war.
Continue with the process and you will get the result.
What do you expect when we live so far from galatik centre? When it is within ones ability to upgrade to a double sun, you will still know the answer to yesterday, though not today.
The further you climb, the further you can fall.
Paraplethon: Rational? Non-superstitious? What form of NS are you referring to???
The very world we live in today is the consequence of 200-300 years of rationalism, denigration of superstition, and NS stood in direct opposition to this degenerate society; NS was a civilization unto itself.
Though what is ‘superstition’, being that most people have some sort of preconception. Superstition; tradition, myth, legend, perhaps a ‘cultural base’. Let’s go out on a limb and say perhaps all myth, legend, tradition(‘superstition’) is but a system existant to give us the means to negotiate our multi-dimensional reality at our will. THAT seems quite rational…
To attempt an interpretation of ‘superstition/myth’ purely from the physical/temporal point of view is quite ‘irrational’, though to do so would result in the conclusion that ‘superstition/myth’ IS itself quite ‘irrational’… whatever…
When you write lyrics, which is more important: exact meaning or the sense and sound of language?
Camazotz: that’s a funny question . As you will find that the ‘vibe’ or sense and sound as you put it. IS the exact meaning. Words can never give the truth, only a close approximation. That’s why letters have a kabbalistik corespondence, to get closer to what the real deal is. Also that’s why we need to utilise the layering of sounds with the words and such, to get as close as possible to the particular atomik rotational condensation as we can. Somewhere within the yin and yang polarities of that atomik field we will find the exact mathematical fraction hinted at.
You must do some travelling.
Do you read any philosophers or social theorists and if so, what doctrines do you find relevant to the current time and its discontent?
Camazotz: I rarely read at all these days. It just dosen’t hold my attention at all anymore. Now we work more practically with the meditations and such. The intellect rarely serves its master satisfactorally.
Simple observation and reflections will give you any informations that these types of pushers try to get thou addicted to. Only it will be pure and internally relevant to YOU and you’re peculiar frequency/orbit.
In addition to that, the big draw back is that people just go around adding all this information to their little brains, without actually utilising any of it or DOING anything. A bit of a waste of time really.
If I read anything now it is scientifik/okkult. Which is first applied on an intellectual level then passed on to the dan tien, then hopefully we can really do some work psychologikly. Which itself begins at the ritual level, then moves deeper.
Paraplethon: Chomsky, Hakim Bey, Alexander Dugin, Qadhafi… David Icke appears to be more daring and goes a bit further than the others.
In your view, is history a linear process with a clear end-point at which a triumph of development can be proclaimed?
Camazotz: if one followed this point of view , it could only be the triumph of death/dekay/involution. History is cyclik in both its ups and downs, every point is only a decimal on the way to another point . My answer to your question is , no.
Paraplethon: Think ‘cyclic’, in terms of ‘aeonics’, development, triumph, degeneration, decay, multiplicity, unity etc…
Saying that though, you’d have to have rocks in your head to still have faith in the ‘cult of progress’.
It seems in light of recent events, previously demonized political worldviews are gaining some ground in the mainstream, albeit in pieces separated from the whole, much as Christianity was absorbed. Do you think these beliefs will synthesize with current “popular knowledge” or will a splinter society be created?
Camazotz: a splinter society? Not for some time I’m afraid ( not in a positive way anyhow ), unless you want to count people such as Islam, Iraq and North Korea etc. we must promote the invisible empire, to be within the ‘system’ but not of it. To not be restricted by it, that is. Utilise it, be the master.
You must see that that is in fact the problem, society is too splintered. The sleepwalker cannot even see the line , neveralone know which side to stand on. Anything that has been assimilated has really been the grosser aspects of doctrines, with no depth to really make a positive difference. And who will lead this splinter society?
Paraplethon: Any ground gained is more likely the carrot dangled in front of us, so watch out for the big stick. They don’t seem like people willing to give up their power, or even share it around a little…
I’m sure people have asked this to death, but what do you think was achieved by the Al-Qaeda bombing in Bali in which 180 people, mostly Australians, were killed?
Camazotz: I guess they got rid of a few round eyes from their country. we got what NWO wanted.
Paraplethon: Al-Qaeda? Really???
About the only thing that was achieved was for 2-3 weeks sports wasn’t the most important thing in the lives of average Australians.
Of which work of the band are you proudest? Do you see an evolution in the process of your works?
Camazotz: we try not to stagnate. But then again a change is not necessarily a good thing, hopefully we can rebel in a positive fashion. I think the standard answer is that what ever is most recently released, is the best, ja!
Actually I try not to be attached to anything that’s been done, or will be done.
Paraplethon: The best thing about SOL is the concious attempt to influence others.
At least here in Texas, it seems to be hard to come by Spear of Longinus merchandise or recordings. Will this change at some point, and will you re-release older material?
Camazotz: older stuffs will be re-released as time goes by hopefully in ‘revamped’ formats. Just as soon as THEY let go, our stuff will be easier to get a hold of. Then we will also be featured on “top of the pops” wont that be grand ………. then the prism of perspective can take us away to the light cone.
What inspired the choice of band name?
Has metal grown from the black metal experience, or are we in a lull between developments of metal and thus bands are turning to traditional, proven formulas for aesthetics?
Camazotz: metal has grown but it is also in a lull.
You will find that the traditional motifs will eternally recur, hopefully in ever flourishing octaves.
The humans are doing the best that they can…. Poor creatures
Paraplethon: Don’t have much to do with ‘metal’ anymore, listen to it now and then, that’s about it… ditched it when that whole ‘retro’ thing took off…
Camazotz: hear hear, fuck retro.
It seems many American Christians support Israel because in the Christian view, an “end times” is coming and one of the signs of its arrival is Jewish repossession of their homeland. Could this be one of those prophecies that is ultimately self-fulfilling and nothing more?
Camazotz: the material realm is not always a faithful reflection of the superior. In fact my kitty kat is black.
The most unfortunate thing is that humans do not understand the symbolism employed.
They mix up the metaphysical internal with the terrene external. Ignorance doom flux.
Join a kult and make it prosper.
Paraplethon: The ‘end-times’ aren’t peculiar to just christians, there’s quite alot that culminates in the period 1960-2040, or even prior if you want to count Crowley’s proclamation of the ‘Aeon of Horus’ in 1904 or whenever it was. Just what do the ‘end-times’ signify though, that’s the more interesting question.
To answer your question though, on the face of it, it would appear to be somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy, with the various other evidence pointing towards an ‘end-times’ however, it is safe to say there is something in the air.
In your personal lives, do you watch television, movies, play video games, or use any drugs?
Camazotz: no drugs
no video games
All you have is your training, you must be what you are independent of external influences.
Paraplethon: Movies… especially the ones with the esoteric undertones…
Why waste time with that other junk – “all we have to do is decide to do with the time given us”, what will you do?
Please insert anything here i’ve missed or which has been only covered obliquely.
Camazotz: thanx for the time and space mate.
Metal is dead, long live metal.
Sorry we didn’t put enough energy into this mate, but hopefully people can get an idea about it all from this. Be a practical particle, be sincere, and HE will come.666.
Paraplethon: Nah, that’ll do… Thanks.