I discovered the music of Blood Urn through the recommendation of a friend. Like most of what I listen to now, it is music that upholds the spirit of older underground metal, the earliest prog rock, and early metal bands like Black Sabbath: a desire to look past the official one-dimensional categorical narrative and uncover the organic life beneath, and through that, to avoid the manipulation of the mass culture around us and discover personal truths that also correspond to tendencies in reality itself. In the style of the oldest death metal bands, Blood Urn knits together riffs into a complex narrative that continually reinvents itself, creating a roller coaster through a labyrinth effect that incorporates both the progressive and psychedelic ancestry of metal. Fortunately, I was able to have brief speaks with the founder and composer of Blood Urn…
When did Blood Urn form and who are the members? What have you released so far?
The name was given to the project in 2010, but a vague idea already existed for several years before, slowly becoming a definite force. We are not a band. I write and record all the music, a friend records the vocals and some allies contribute small parts. We have released two demos on tape: “Unchain the Abhorrent” (2011) and “…of Gory Sorcery and Death” (2014).
What inspirations and influences helped propel you into starting Blood Urn?
A deep love for darkness and metal music. My influences are mostly the music that I listen to. But of course I also cherish certain occult literature, splatter movies, mythology, paintings… What I like about making (death) metal is that one can incorporate all these influences in such a naive way; there is no need for huge systematic concepts, but a lot of space for instinct and eclectic working. It never looses it’s reckless teenage approach but also provides a sense of depth and seriousness.
A riff has to make sense in the context of a song and it has to serve the song, that is what’s most important to me.
You say: “My influences are mostly the music that I listen to. But of course I also cherish certain occult literature, splatter movies, mythology, paintings…” Can you list your musical influences, especially when you started out with Blood Urn, in addition to literature, movies, mythology and paintings? I think people are fascinated by this kind of stuff because it often reveals a lot about what you value.
Things that are a continuous influence for my work with Blood Urn (and sometimes beyond):
Absu (death metal era, especially the first album and earlier stuff)
Nile (especially the first album)
Cryptopsy (first two albums)
Morbid Angel (old)
Occult stuff like Peter J. Carrol, Aleister Crowley, Austin Osman Spare, but not so much recently.
Philosophy like Nietzsche, Camus, Evola, poetic works from Baudelaire, works on religion and spirituality like Mircea Eliade.
Stupid splatter movies, horror movies like Evil Dead, Hellraiser, experimental stuff like Begotten.
Only Norse and celtic mythology when it comes to Blood Urn.
PAINTINGS / ART
I don’t have vast knowledge when it comes to art, but I know what I like when I see it. Rubens’ “Medusa”, Hieronymus Bosch, old woodcuts illustrating death, plague and the devil. VERY much old anatomic illustrations, for example by Andreas Vesalius. Specific Austrian art: Viennese actionism, Hermann Nitsch,… everybody should check this out!
Why did you choose an older style, when newer styles are more likely to get you record contracts, interviews and fame?
If cared about that, I would make different music. But I don’t even think that I would be able to make other music than this kind of metal in a decent way… For example, I am into prog/folk rock and would love to play that style as well, but it just ends up horrible every time I try it.
On the other hand, I am doing an interview right now and people have been responding better to my creative output than I could have ever wished for, so. I am pleased about all the feedback the way it is. If there is something like an underground metal “scene,” then I have to compliment it for being very responsive.
What is it that appeals to you about these older styles? Do you think they are still relevant? How do we measure “relevant”?
Right now, being traditional, backward-looking and a little bit nostalgic is a strength of the black and death metal scene since it spawned a lot of interesting bands that adhere to these ideals. I think tradition will always be relevant for metal music and I am extremely enthusiastic about its complexity. But that is no excuse to replace artistic vision by mere reproduction of the characteristics of a certain style/era… that is a danger for creative potential and I am a little skeptical about the way things are. I don’t know how to measure relevance, but I sure see the danger of becoming trivial. Especially after all the buzz about old death metal vanishes again… which of the records that we bought in the last five years will stand the test of time? Blood Urn? I don’t have the highest hopes, to be honest. And I don’t really care.
A good part of the songwriting may be jamming around and stringing riffs together, but most of the time I have an abstract concept for a song structure and then try to find fitting riffs.
I could not identify a single dominant influence to Blood Urn. This makes the band stand out as different from retro/revivalist bands which seem to target a specific sound from the past. How did you find your own artistic voice in your music?
Thank you, I appreciate that observation very much! I think I like re-arranging elements from different scenes / bands / eras, sometimes by intuition and sometimes intentional. But that is not a main aspect of my songwriting. Maybe it adds a little character. For “Unchain the Abhorrent” I had a vision of a bastard descending from stuff like Archgoat and old Suffocation, I can’t really say if it worked out (there definitely is room for improvement and refinement). For “… of Gory Sorcery and Death” I went for rather pure death metal.
Are there any plans to release an album? Are there advantages to releasing demos first?
“Unchain the Abhorrent” was purely a demo. It came together spontaneously, I did not care too much for sound issues, I just wanted to get something done. But after that, I have to say that I put a lot of work into “…of Gory Sorcery and Death” and it feels like the best I can do at the moment. So maybe I should have put it out as an album; I don’t know where to draw the line to be honest.
Do you listen to any current metal acts? Can you list them, if so?
I do listen to a lot of new metal. Dead Congreagation, Karnarium, Katharsis, Deathspell Omega, Triumphant,… I don’t buy every demo ever released, but I think a lot of worthwhile stuff has been going on in the last years. I also listen to other musical genres, like 70s rock, folk, hardcore punk, grindcore, ambient, noise and so on.
How do you compose your songs? Are they riff-based, melody-based or idea-based?
I would say the emphasis is on ideas! A good part of the songwriting may be jamming around and stringing riffs together, but most of the time I have an abstract concept for a song structure and then try to find fitting riffs.
I think tradition will always be relevant for metal music and I am extremely enthusiastic about its complexity. But that is no excuse to replace artistic vision by mere reproduction of the characteristics of a certain style/era.
How do you determine what riffs, songs, parts, etc. to keep and what to reject?
I write a lot of riffs and it is hard for me to reject any of them. I know, there may be a few filler-sounding riffs on my demos, but I don’t mind that too much. It gives certain other parts a climax-like effect and I like that, because it adds structure to the songs. I know a good riff when I stumble upon it, but I sometimes have hard times with parts that don’t click the first time. I tend to keep all the material I write as placeholder for better parts, but sometimes I familiarize with it after a while. A riff has to make sense in the context of a song and it has to serve the song, that is what’s most important to me.
If people like what you have been doing, where should they go next to learn more? Any upcoming news you can share?
Blood Urn does not have a website or facebook page, but feel free to contact me at firstname.lastname@example.org. There are plans for a re-release of “…of Gory Sorcery and Death” on Vinyl as well as a new 7″. I haven’t been working on Blood Urn for the last few months, but there will be something new this year.
As mentioned in our first article on the topic, the “first album” from Morbid Angel remains a vague category because the band recorded two first albums, each given a name starting with the letter A which fits into the alphabetical sequence to which their albums have conformed to this day. We took a few moments to speak to original drummer/vocalist Mike Browning (Nocturnus, After Death) about Abominations of Desolation versus Altars of Madness as the true first album of this essential band…
You were one of the original players on Morbid Angel’s Abominations of Desolation (referred to as AOD), which was released before most of the publicly acknowledged death metal classics. What was the band lineup for AOD? How does it feel to have participated in such a historic and musically intense recording?
The line-up on the AOD album was:
Mike Browning -‐ drums and vocals
Trey Azagthoth -‐ guitar
Richard Brunelle -‐ guitar
John Ortega -‐ bass
At the time back in 1986 everything was just still called metal and it didn’t matter if you were more on the death or power metal side, it was still all considered Metal and the Metal crowd was unified and everyone got along for the most part, so to us back then we were just recording another new metal album and we weren’t concerned with being the fastest or the heaviest, we just did our own thing and kept it as original as possible. Back then the main thing was to be real and not fake in what we were doing.
Was it intended to be the first Morbid Angel album? How do you know? Was this fact …inconvenient… for anyone?
It still amazes me that this is even questionable, but here is the thing, we were offered a RECORD CONTRACT to record an ALBUM under the name MORBID ANGEL by Goreque Records, a label owned by David Vincent and his partner Mark Anderson. We signed the contract and Bill Metoyer of Metal Blade producer/engineer that recorded and mixed more albums than I can even think of, was hired to engineer the album.
So Goreque Records rented us a UHaul truck and we packed up our gear and went to a studio in Charlotte, North Carolina. We were furnished with hotel rooms and I met David Vincent and Mark Anderson for the first time face to face and the next day we started to record the album, after about 5 or 6 days there we were finished with the recording and David Vincent sent all of us but Trey back to Tampa and kept Trey there by himself for the mixdown, little did the rest of us know that the whole time David Vincent was really brainwashing Trey and telling him how bad the album was and that he should quit the band and come join his band. When Trey came back from the mixing, he acted like a completely different person and everything went downhill from there.
What was the reaction to its release at the time (1986) and five years later in 1991?
Well that is the thing, the album never got released because I ended up catching Trey with my girlfriend and I beat him up for it and that was the end of me being in Morbid Angel because Trey and Richard moved from Tampa to Charlotte and did get in a band with David and his drummer Wayne Hartsell. I know that John Ortega had a copy of a rough mix that we had at the point that we all left to go back to Tampa, so when Trey got back he said that David Vincent told him that the bass playing was so bad on the album that we had to fire John Ortega if we wanted the album to still come out on his label and replace him with Sterling Scarborough, we didn’t even know who Sterling was, but again it was David’s idea for us to replace Johnny with Sterling, so Trey did it and the band only lasted a couple months once this happened.
When [AOD] came out in 1991 I think it confused a lot of people as to what it was because there was no information or pictures as to who was actually playing on the album, except for a couple of lines in the front right corner of the cover that said it was AN ALBUM that was recorded in 1986, but never released, so even on the Earache version it says that it was an unreleased album, not a demo, it just also didn’t give any info on who was on it!
When did Morbid Angel decide to record Altars of Madness (referred to as AOM), and what were the changes between songs on that album and AOD?
I guess about two years later, so they had two years to actually work on most of those same songs and make them tighter and faster, they only changed a few words here and there to most of them and a lot of the drum parts were similar only faster.
When Earache released AOD, did they make any changes to the original recording?
I really don’t think they did, of course it never really got released back in 1986, so there is nothing to compare it to except the rough mix that John Ortega had and released as a bootleg.
Who is Sterling von Scarborough?
John Sterling Scarborough was his real name, but he went by Sterling Von Scarborough. He was a bass player from Atlanta that had a band called Incubus and David Vincent knew him and told Trey that we had to replace John Ortega, so he recommended Sterling and so Sterling came to Tampa and tried out for us and became our bass player. He was never on the AOD recording and he joined the band after we recorded the AOD album. We only did one live show with him at a place called The Volley Club in 1986 and Ammon (now Deicide) opened for us that night. Unfortunately that show was never recorded and it was the last show I ever played with Morbid Angel as well.
Why do you think Earache released AOD in 1991, five years after it was originally recorded? Why do you think they chose to claim AOM as the first album instead of AOD?
From what I heard was that they released AOD in 1991 to stop all the bootleg versions of it that were being made, from that one tape that Ortega had, all the bootlegs of it were made from that, so generation after generation they got sounding worse and worse. Earache and David and Trey made a deal to release the AOD album because David had the master reels, so he sold them to Earache and they gave Trey some money as well and they released it to stop the bootlegging.
Funny thing was I was on Earache Records at the time in Nocturnus and they never even told me that they were putting it out, I didn’t even find out about it until after it was already out and in the stores. That album has, guitar, bass, drums and vocals and I am doing 2 of those 4 things and I was never even told that it was gonna be released!
Did Morbid Angel take a different compositional (choice of notes, not production or vocals) direction with AOM versus AOD? Why did they do that? What did the original direction offer that the new one did not?
Well it was a couple years later that they had quite a bit of time to work on those songs and a few more and with everything but the guitar being new, of course it was going to have a new and different sound, especially when you change vocalists. And if you notice, David tries to sing a lot more like me, but he gave that up and went for a completely different style on Blessed Are The Sick. They also had a big budget and recorded the album in Morrisound which is a studio known for Metal, that studio that we recorded AOD in was actually some kind of a country music recording studio, so the guys that ran that place had never even had any type of metal band even in there before, so of course you are gonna have a huge difference in the production because of those things alone.
Rumor has it that you formed a band named “Ice” with Trey Azagthoth, pre-Morbid Angel. Wow… a moment in death metal history! What did you want to do with that band, and what was inspiring you at that moment?
Trey and I met in high school back in 1981 and I even remember his mom buying him his first guitar, a wood colored Gibson SG and we started jamming together in my mom’s back room of my house, so we put a little high school band together and even played the high school talent show. It was literally the beginning of what would become Morbid Angel.
I find that musical “inspiration” extends beyond other albums, but includes them. Were there any non‐musical experiences, books, ideas, plays, movies, thoughts, etc. that influenced you, and how did they parallel what you found in the music that influenced you?
Both Trey and I were into the occult, so when he moved into my area of Tampa and started going to school at my school and we met and started talking about what we were both into and we both were musicians that liked the occult and most especially we were both into a book called The Necronomicon and we really believed every bit of that book was true and real, so we decide to put a band together that was based on music that would please these Sumerian Gods that were in The Necronomicon. We were totally serious about what we were doing and the whole purpose of the band was to make music that would bring forth these Ancient Ones back to the Earth.
Did you and other members of Morbid Angel meet in high school, as is the rumor? Where was that? What was it like (hell?) and how did that help you bond?
It was only Trey and I as far as that ended up in Morbid Angel that knew each other in high school. Morbid Angel itself started around 1984 with me, Trey and Dallas Ward on bass.
The High School we went to was called HB Plant High school and it still is in South Tampa, there was an area where all the cool cigarette smokers and hippy type people hung out at the high school called The Alley and everyone would hang out there before school and at lunch and we met there and would always talk about music and The Necronomicon.
As “Ice,” what kind of material did you play? What songs did you cover? How did they mold your style? What was your practice schedule like? Did this influence how Morbid Angel did things later?
We really only played cover songs at first, like Judas Priest and Scorpions and Black Sabbath, because there was no Slayer or Celtic Frost or even Hellhammer yet back then. We did start messing around with some original stuff, but when I graduated from high school, Trey moved again at that time to the North end of Tampa, so for probably a good 6 months I didn’t even see him, so I started jamming with some other guys playing metal covers and Trey met Dallas and Charles, a singer and they had a drummer that was older than all of them and he lived in another town north of Tampa and he only came into town on some weekends to jam with them, so when I started talking to Trey again I decided to quit the cover band and start playing with Trey and these new guys Dallas and Charles and they already had a name for the band and it was called Death Watch. The singer got arrested and went to jail, so that is when we became a three-piece and Dallas was singing and we called the band Heretic, but we quickly found out that there was already another Heretic, so that’s when we finally became Morbid Angel.
How do you conceptualize death metal? Was progressive rock an influence? What about classical or jazz?
I don’t really think most of the music I have done was only considered to be death metal, because it had a lot of different elements to it, especially with Nocturnus. But I would say that death metal is a very heavy, fast and aggressive type of music with lyrics mainly focused on death, gore and a lot of anti-Christian themes. For me progressive rock has always been an influence, I really liked Rush when I was in high school and they were about as progressive as you could get back then. I also liked classical because I had been in the school band, from grades 6-‐10 playing percussion, so I learned to play all kinds of percussion like tympanis and bells playing classical and marching band music. I never really got into the jazz style of music, although I wish I had now, because jazz has some of the most amazing drummers and really off timing drum parts.
Your musical style is both highly proficient and idiosyncratic. How did you learn to play? What deepened your understanding of music? How important was the rising death metal scene in changing how you understood music?
It started even before that though because my mom had a 70s rock band that she sang for and they used to practice in the same back room that Trey and I ended up practicing in and I was only about 9 or 10, so I used to sit back there and watch them rehearse and I always liked watching the drummer play the most, so when they offered band when I got in 6th grade I wanted to take the drums of course!
Playing that style of music like marching band and classical stuff and also seeing my mom play in a band really gave me the early understanding of what it was like to play music and be in a band. I was into bands like Led Zeppelin and Styx when I first started and then I got into heavier stuff like Black Sabbath and Deep Purple and then Judas Priest and Iron Maiden and from there I discovered Slayer, Venom Mercyful Fate, Hellhammer and I wanted to be in a band like that, but I also wanted to be different, I have never been into copying anyones style and being like someone else, so I guess why even today I still kind of just do my own thing whether it makes money or not has never been a concern to me, I only play music because I get enjoyment out of it and if other people like what I do, then that is awesome to me!
How was AOD recorded? It sounds rough but preserves the texture of the instruments, instead of trading detail for loudness and polished sound like AOM. What made you choose to record it this way?
Back when we recorded AOD in 1986, we really didn’t know much about recording or what equipment was best for recording, so even though we went into a real professional 24 track studio, we still weren’t that prepared to do a well polished album. I had only been singing a couple months and some of the songs were just put together and we were also under a time constraint because we were in another state recording in an unfamiliar place and we only had so much studio time to get it all done.
If we had better equipment and more knowledge on recording, it probably would have sounded much better, but we were just a bunch of crazy kids with a record contract! I was also never included in the mixdown of the music, so all I got to hear was pretty much the raw unmixed tracks until Trey came back with the album mixed and finished. At least the album has a certain energy to it that was still able to come through, even with all the problems that we did have.
Can you tell us about your current projects, such as (but not limited to!) Afer Death 666? How are these efforts different from typical death metal, AOD and AOM? If people want to find out more about what you’re up to these days, where should they go?
Right now I have 2 bands with the same members in both bands, one is Nocturnus AD, which is a continuation of what I wanted to do with Nocturnus after we recorded The Key in 1990, it is much more technical sci-fi stuff than what is on AOD and it has keyboards and it is tuned in E-flat which is what Nocturnus was tuned in back in 1987‐1992 and the other band is just called After Death and as I mentioned it does have the same members, but After Death is a little heavier on the occult side of things and the music is less technical and more atmospheric and tuned in D.
The thing I keep up with most is my Facebook page, which is just under Mike Browning and it has the most up to date info on it, but we also have Facebook pages for Nocturnus AD and After Death and we also have a website www.afterdeath666.com , which has info for both bands on the site.
An interesting project emerging from the murky Texas underworld, Lech makes music of nearly pure noise and calls it “doom music” rather than a form of metal, but its similarities to metal (as well as electro-acoustic and other forms) cannot be denied. After reviewing the first album from this project, we wanted to hear more and were fortunate to get in a few words with Lech.
Who “is” Lech? Can you tell us band members, your history in music outside of Lech, and how you came together to form Lech -or- decided to do so?
We come from various experimental band backgrounds.
After some time away from music we decided to get together, and put out an 8 track ep.
You describe your music as “doom music,” although others might say electro-acoustic, drone or organic ambient. What inspires your choice of words to describe the sounds that you organize into music?
Doom in our opinion is the fear of impending threat or danger, but it can be taken out of context when describing music genre.
A lot of people think of Black Sabbath as being the godfathers of doom, and no doubt Tony is the Riff master but we believe Screamin’ Jay Hawkins was the true originator.
Doom music describes us best.
Is there a connection to heavy metal, or underground metal, that informs how you compose? Or is this an entirely different style? Do you have influences from any of the following ex-metal projects: Lull, Neptune Towers, Final, K.K. Null, Suuri Shamaani?
Actually the influences of the 8 tracks we have out now come from dark classical. Requiem, dirge, and Walter/ Wendy Carlos.
How do you create your music? Are these found sounds, digital manipulated, distorted or some combination of the above?
Our stuff is all original recordings.
No sample, found, or computer manipulation sounds.
What you hear that doesn’t sound like guitars are in fact guitars. The beginning of Waterwalker is a guitar run through an Eventide Space.
The experimentation that went into our sound would have to be seen to be understood.
When you compose, what do you aim to create? Do you hope to provoke a reaction or recognition in the listener and if so, what is it?
The first thought is probably “what the hell is this?”
Which I think we accomplished without saying, and the other is the true dark side of music.
Music is sometimes misunderstood, and when it is questioned you are usually on the right track.
Is this self-titled release your first recordings? What others are present? Will this be released on a label, or is it already out?
Yes, there will be another album out this summer under the Forlorn Group Label.
Why did you choose the name “Lech”? Does it have a particular meaning?
The name LecH was chosen because of the many different connotations that go along with it.
From the perverse, to the river in Austria.
It’s the unknown.
What are your future activities — will there be touring, more recordings, promotion or collaborations?
As for touring, and live shows we can’t wait to get a road crew together, and smoke some amps.
If you could play live with any Texas metal bands, which ones would you choose?
One would be Ryan from Howling Void out of San Antonio, and the other would be Annie Clark from St Vincent out of Dallas. She’s not exactly metal, but like us she has her own sound, which we like.
If people are interested in your music, where should they go to find out more and stay in touch with Lech?
We are taking a different approach to getting our music heard, so the best way for now is links on our Youtube stuff through our PR guy Kyle Lee.
Other than that we are working on a website, and hope to get out on the road to play live.
The anti-censorship movement known as #metalgate has become a permanent and ongoing event. Like the social justice worker (SJW) antics it combats, it is both activism and activity for those looking to have fun and bash back the insanity of a dying civilization.
If it has a Command and Coordination HQ, it is arguably Scott Vogler’s MetalGate Band group on Facebook. Here, the latest idiocy of SJWs and lapdog media are listed and mocked, with quality arguments against them arising almost instantly and spreading to the far corners of the internet.
We were lucky enough to get a few minutes of Mr. Vogler’s time as he was poring over transcripts of the Judas Priest backward masking trial at the Library of Congress…
What is metalgate and why is it important?
#Metalgate was inspired by the events which sparked #GamerGate. Metalgate serves both musicians and fans alike by standing up for both of their rights to express themselves as they see fit. Like GamerGate, Metalgate seeks to be a watchdog for the press and point out flaws, corruption, and calls for censorship. Metalgate does not exist to silence anyone; on the contrary, it exist to give voice to both sides of any given debate on the topic of heavy metal whether it be a social justice warrior, Heavy Metal Enthusiast, Religious Fundamentalist, Heavy Metal Musicians, or anyone else who has something to say.
You started a group, “MetalGate Band,” on Facebook that now seems like a command and control nexus for metalgate activities. What do you do with this group?
MetalGate Band is meant to attract metal heads, gamers, musicians, artist, and anyone else who would stand up to would be censors. It’s also open for those who disagree with the premise of #metalgate. This is not meant to be a hugbox of any sort.
I would like to live in a world where no one bans anything no matter how offensive it is.
The group appears to be the only lively community representing the hash tag and we are nearing 300 members. Which as of now is a small but passionate group who for the most part are totally on board with the idea of standing up to the censors who in this case are labeled social justice warriors. There are other areas of concern as well and we address a multitude of topics every day. It’s actually been really educational for me personally.
I want to use this group to create the idea that art itself should never be censored. If you have a favorite form of entertainment or art you should preemptively stand up for it along with anyone else who would stand with you. This is not freedom of speech without scrutiny as I leave the door wide open for debate, challenges, and other perspectives.
What would you hope the average person would learn from metalgate?
I would want them to learn some history about Heavy Metal and the challenges the genre has faced over the years. I would want them to see how often Heavy Metal has faced down and defeated the censors over ridiculous things like sexual lyrics, satanic messages, violent themes, and other contrary philosophies expressed through the lens of Heavy Metal.
Most of all I would hope they would learn that their feelings do not trump the individual’s right to express themselves how ever they see fit.
Why should your average metalhead care about metalgate, or anything beyond their own purchasing? Do ideas have consequences?
To answer the first part of the question let’s go back to 1985 and look at the Parents Music Resource Center (PMRC) hearings where a group lead by Tipper Gore challenged the entire music industry by introducing plans to outright censor artists and musicians from creating material deemed too offensive for the general population. If it weren’t for Dee Snider, Frank Zappa, and John Denver we might very well be living in a world where all of your favorite bands might not exist.
To answer the second half of the question I would hope a simple “yes” would suffice, but I know it won’t so I’ll share an event that happened recently. Just a little over a month ago a group of radical feminists demanded that a band named “Black Pussy” be exiled from playing music. Their belief in feminism led them to threaten a venue with vandalism and violence if it allowed Black Pussy to play there which in turn caused Black Pussy to cancel the show. Black Pussy stood up for their freedom of expression by pointing out how foolishly misguided this group of radfems (“radical feminists”) are, got the name of their band out there, recruited more fans, and have earned the support of MetalGate even though they aren’t a metal band. Good for Black Pussy. Bad for Radical Feminism.
So I hope you see that on both sides there are consequences. Depending on how you interact with society those can be good or bad consequences. So keep that in mind whether or not you decide to join the metalgate community.
When you talked to Shayne Mathis for his hipster podcast, he seemed to be trying to make the point that racially exclusive language can be coercive, while you were pointing out that socially exclusive language like the term “racist” can be coercive. Did you find middle ground on that part of the debate?
(Shayne, if you’re reading this I just want you to realize that I don’t hate you, nor do I totally disagree with you. I don’t think you’re a complete moron or a waste of people’s time or anything like that. To answer the question though I would have to tell you that I don’t feel like we really reached a middle ground.)
It was a good conversation. I agree with Shayne that racial slurs can be extremely ignorant and are coercive attempts to silence people, but want to point out that “anti-racist” shaming is also a coercive attempt to silence people.
We should resist coercive attempts to silence people; this falls under free speech. I don’t agree with being a racist at all but I think it’s worth actually listening to racists in order to know why they feel the way they feel. The idea that we should just avoid it at all cost seems rather dangerous to me. I think the biggest reason Shayne and I disagree on the topic is that he doesn’t feel anyone other than white people can be racist where as I feel the term itself can be applied to anyone from any part of the world or racial background.
I think it’s a dangerous precedent to set that only a certain group of people can be criticized for their racism while others get a free pass to be as racist as they want to be. The middle ground is pretty far away because of this disagreement and I would hope we could bridge that gap as all of this continues.
Do you think racism exists, and does the term “racist” have any meaning, or is it yet another politically manipulative term for someone who has noticed what our leaders would prefer they do not notice? (And if so, what is being noticed?)
Yes, I think racism exists and yes the term “racist” has a meaning but it also serves as a politically manipulative term, just as any word can take on that role over time.
Honestly, who knows what they’re really hiding? Maybe just the fact that they themselves have their own issues with bigotry and are projecting it on to others. Maybe there are more insidious things and skeletons people hide with that word and use it to shoo away those who know better but in that extreme it probably wouldn’t be quite so easy to stop someone from exposing you if they had real evidence. I think the term or any term for that matter can be used to socially condition a general response out of the masses.
We’ve seen this happen before through marketing, government propaganda, movies, songs, etc. I don’t think the lesson here is whether or not people use “name calling” to hide something and dismiss other perspectives. The lesson here is how you deal with such a turn of events. When someone calls you a really mean name for obvious political reasons don’t let the power of that word frighten you from standing for your principles. What they really want is for you to sit down, shut up, and capitulate. It’s a last ditch effort to silence an already pretty silent majority from pursuing any kind of “justice” that would come swiftly as a result of a big enough information leak.
Can you tell us a bit of your own background in metal? Are you also involved in gaming?
I recall hearing Metallica quite a lot in my early years I finally became a fan of heavy music (not heavy metal) the very first time I saw Tool’s video for their song “Sober.” It wasn’t until #metalgate though that I really took a dive into heavy metal and the history lesson that comes with it. It’s such a vast genre of music and have had to cram it all in by using Spotify and listen to as much as possible to and from work every day.
In just a matter of months I went from a progrock/progmetal/desertrock kind of guy to a mad man trying to listen to as much heavy metal as humanly possible spanning all the subgenres, generations, and styles of metal and I’m still not even close to having a good grip on reality when it comes to “Heavy Metal” but it’s been well worth it to me and will continue to learn because I just fucking enjoy it!
As far as gaming goes my earliest memory is Super Mario Bros, Kid Nikki, Zelda, Final Fantasy, and others on NES. That was on my sister’s console however so I can’t really say I was into it as much as I would be later. My very first console was a Super SNES with Super Mario World, Starfox, Chrono Trigger, Zelda 3: A Link to the Past, Final Fantasy, etc, etc.
I currently still mostly play retro games; if not I turn on my Xbox 360. I am disappointed with the direction of the video games industry. For multiple reasons, one of which sparked #Gamergate and in turn #metalgate, but other reasons as well. I don’t like to feel like I’m just playing a movie. So many games today are just that. While it looks impressive it doesn’t feel anything like a “video game” to me. I fully support #GamerGate for these reasons. I hope it sparks developers to start being more innovative and play to the strengths of their audience rather than for mass appeal.
I guess this is a question I wish someone would answer, because no one addresses it. If we have many different groups in our society, of different types (religion, race, sexual orientation, etc), and each group is offended by at least one things usually where it disagrees with another group how do we unite these groups into a society?
I would like to live in a world where no one bans anything no matter how offensive it is. I think we’re seeing the beginnings of a movement in this direction unfold over the last six months or so with things like #gamergate, #metalgate, and #comicsgate. It is not a conscious ideology so much as people just getting fed up with not being able to express themselves without some lunatic jumping down their throat with histrionic tirades. It has become a type of hobby to keep a watchful eye on the press, government, and radical groups and calling out bullshit as we see it hit the news. So for me right now the plan is to provide a platform for both sides of this argument to express their points.
I see this kind of attitude growing in light of the #gates spurring on people to stand up for the art and entertainment they love. I want to hear both sides but I am definitely in the camp that feel it’s important to take a firm stance against anyone demanding special rights, privileges, censorship, or other harmful precedents they propose. People do tend to selfsegregate but it’s not something I find to be particularly harmful. If people want to be left alone they can create that situation for themselves. People of all stripes should live the way they see fit and if that means staying in a community of people who are like you then by all means go for it.
On the other hand we’re free to criticize any community or group of people we see fit and they should be willing to stand up for themselves in light of that. This whole idea of “safe spaces” and “censorship” to me is a thousand times more harmful than any harsh criticism, ignorant slurs, or bigotry that might come out. So while I support the right to remain silent I also see that it’s important to speak up at times and not run away from criticism.
What is an “SJW,” how do I recognize one, and what is the purpose of SJW’s?
A “Social Justice Warrior” (aka SJW) is someone who concerns themselves in meddling with the affairs of different groups. It is someone who has taken on an extremely left wing world view point and will often be just as over the top with their beliefs as a fundamentalist Christian or Muslim. You can recognize them by their most obvious attribute, histrionics. If you dare mention a word about something they take personally you will see a display unlike any other. I would go so far as to say they do even crazier things than religious people do because SJWs claim to be all about science, atheism, facts, and logic but act out in such ways that contradict this precept.
You can find SJW’s hanging out at the mall, coffee shops, book stores, open mic nights, and on the internet (especially Tumblr). If you still haven’t a clue on where to look for an SJW go look at the #Gamergate hashtag on Twitter. The people who are antigamergate are almost exclusively SJWs. Also visit Tumblr and just search the term Social Justice Warrior. There you will find them waxing dramatically about how oppressive everything is. I see SJWs as, for the most part, cattle for more intelligent people to take advantage of. I believe that the more prominent SJW figureheads are not as stupid as they appear and realize just how easily lead astray people are.
I would love to see [#metalgate] leave…a reinvigoration of the kind of unfettered desire to express oneself without apology or compromise.
To ask their purpose depends on which kind of SJW you’re talking about. Some of them exploit others, while others truly believe in their nonsense. Over all I think their purpose is to get away with as much of the same things they complain about all the time. They will criticize one person while running away from criticism themselves. This is a hallmark of social justice warriors. They want to manipulate society into guilt and shame and reap the rewards by coercing more and more power, influence, and money out of society all while having a free pass to be as bigoted as they want to be because they’re special.
David Draiman (vocalist of numetal band Disturbed) raised an interesting point the other day. He was disturbed that GamerGate opposes censorship, but hadn’t spoken out against antiSemitism. Some said that gameragate should support free speech entirely, while others thought it should be against any “bad” speech like racism or antiSemitism if it was legitimately so. What’s your take?
David brings up a good point. If you’re going to stand against “bad language” then you have to be willing to stand against all of it. I would say however that there should be unfettered free speech. This goes back to what I said about conflict avoidance and how it’s actually more detrimental than the initial slur. You can be against the slur without being for censorship of any kind.
No one ever has all the answers and groups like Gamergate have a huge and diverse crowd who seem, to me at least, to support this notion of unfettered free speech and a willingness to address these kinds of concerns in a logical way without demanding silence from detractors. To me this is a step in the right direction. The opposite view would be to either ignore the bigots and never address the issue, or try to censor them without considering what they are trying to say. I think that’s the wrong way to look at it.
What’s next for metalgate? Do you hope it will leave lasting change, stay active as an ongoing concern, or get bigger, and lead to an ultimate showdown between SJWs and metalheads?
It’s truly difficult to say what’s next for #metalgate. I plan on continuing on with this by creating new content on YouTube, creating a WordPress site specifically for metalgate, and constantly signal boosting content creators on the Facebook page. Right now it’s all about cultivating a healthy, driven, and passionate community.
I would love to see it leave a lasting change in the landscape of heavy metal. I see that change not so much as a “change” but a reinvigoration of the kind of unfettered desire to express oneself without apology or compromise. I think the reason metalgate continues despite a slow growth and only a handful of passionate metal heads is because it represents something that’s always been a part of Metal: the desire to express yourself how ever you see fit and encouraging others to do the same even if you flat out disagree with them.
If we’re talking about real wishes, someday I’d like to put on a music festival. At this giant three-day event, there would be a showdown between the different forces competing for control of metal. The two biggest contenders would be mainstream metal and underground metal, SJWs and Metalheads if you will. I would invite all of the mainstream metal bands, underground metal bands, Christian bands and others to try to outperform one another. Imagine the lengths at which some artists would go to in order to leave the impression that what they are playing is METAL and what others are playing is merely rock and roll. That is the sort of attitude and competition that made early British bands, thrash bands, and black metal bands famous. The will to push the envelope of society in order to be the heaviest, most brutal, most technically gifted, most worshiped metal acts in the world.
I believe this has the potential to reinvigorate heavy metal if the right voices are lent to it and the right minds come together to make this leave a lasting impression on the history of heavy metal. Until then, I will just continue managing the Facebook group and welcome all comers to throw their name in the hat. Finally, I’m just an average guy on the internet with a full time job and starting out a family. If you are in the metal industry and you feel the way I and others do about this please give your voice, resources, and talent to it and shake things up. You could be the one to take this from an internet argument to the headlines as you make waves in the music industry by redefining heavy metal.
Thank you, Scott, for taking the time to do this somewhat prolonged and specific interview.
Scott and Jim “Kamikaze” Thompson have started a talk radio style podcast-ish video series in which they analyze the issues of the day according to #metalgate and #gamergate. Session One begins below.
As society circles the drain, some notice in art, music, literature — and video games. Increasingly misanthropic and world-cynical games like Hatred show us the direction things are going and possibly, give us a reason to fight back. Destructive Creations CEO and lead developer Jarosław Zieliński was kind enough to give us a few minutes to discuss this antisocial video game and its connection to evil metal…
What made you decide that the market was ready for an “un-PC” game about slaughtering other people seemingly at random?
I didn’t know if it was ready, actually. But observing all the shitstorm around since our reveal trailer, I think the market is ready. We’re small team from the middle of nowhere and now everywhere you have news about our game. Even Forbes! We don’t care about all the hate that is thrown in our direction. People who would like to play this title, now recognize it.
How much was this influenced by 1998’s Postal, a game with a similar theme? Any other game influences?
It was very influenced, obviously. There are many other games we played for entire life and many of them had influence for our creation, but the main inspiration is the first Postal game.
I noticed you’re a Black Witchery fan from the t-shirt in the Destructive Creations team photo. Are you the only metalhead on staff? How much did metal influence your choice of this career path?
I don’t like the “metalhead” word. I don’t listen to “metal”; I listen to some of its genres while I actually hate the others. I don’t really think there’s a link between living with this music and working on video games. Actually modding games was first in my life, since I got the first Wolfenstein 3D editor. I was like seven years old at the time. And I really doubt that making games influenced what music I listen to.
Can you name some death/black/etc metal favorites you have?
Umm, that would be a shitload of bands. I’m a lot into stuff like Revenge, Truppensturm, Bestial Raids, Black Witchery, Teitanblood, Archgoat, Wrathprayer, Goatpenis, Inquisition, Bestial Mockery, Dead Congregation, Ad Hominem, Nocturnal Graves, Goat Semen, Demonomancy etc. The list is in random order, from the top of my head, but I do have quite a spread in my taste, from Disgorge or Devourment to Enthroned or Urgehal, if you know what I mean. But it’s all in the black-death line. Someone may say that it’s dull to stick only to these genres, but I would tell him to fuck off, I don’t need more (it doesn’t mean I didn’t ever try). There’s still plenty of bands to discover.
Which genres do you dislike?
Actually: all the others. I respect thrash metal, for example, but I don’t listen to it, because I don’t like it. And I really don’t understand how someone can listen to heavy metal stuff like King Diamond or Manowar, it fucking hurts my ears, the music is cheerful and vocals sounds gay. Well, let’s say I like “evil” metal, not “cool” metal, I hope you get it. If it’s a low-distorted blastbeating about satanic tanks crushing graves of christians and hordes of MG42-armed hellspawns spreading genocide then it’s most likely my taste. :)
Why do you think “Hatred” upsets people? Is it similar to the reasons death metal and black metal at least used to upset people?
No, I don’t think so. I think metal used to upset people because they don’t understand the music itself, rather than lyrical themes. Hatred is making people crazy, because of its context, not because its shell. If we were to make the same game but with any other plot, they would accept it with no problems.
Why are people drawn to dark themes like in metal and video games? Do you think that this attraction will mean that Hatred will become a household name?
Because every one of us has some side of evil nature deeply-rooted inside. Some of us like to get along with the dark side, which is why brutal music sometimes makes the evil grin on your face or you get chills. I want the same player’s reaction while playing Hatred. I have no idea whether it will become a household name.
Can you tell us about yourself, when you got into metal, and how you ended up becoming a video game developer?
I don’t really feel like talking about myself, I have a lot of something you might call “underground nature.” Most parts of my life were strongly tied with death/black metal and still are, but I don’t like connecting it with my job publicly. My engagement with the metal scene is my private thing, while making games is my occupation (and a hobby too). You know, I’ve comercialized one of two of my biggest passions, and I will never do the same with remaining one.
Back in the hazy 1990s, many of us encountered a band from Poland who in the wake of Vader had been signed to Nuclear Blast and distributed in the United States. This band was Betrayer and the album Calamity, a work of high-speed metal in the Slayer-influenced style of Vader but also going in its own direction including a prescient use of melody, anticipating where death metal would go in the next decade. After two decades, Betrayer has returned with a split 7″ that is turning some heads for its aggressive integration of old school speed metal and death metal styles. We were fortunate to be able to sit down with mastermind Berial over a cup of hot blood and discuss Betrayer and the exciting possibility of new material…
When was Betrayer formed? How many demos did you put out? How did you get signed to Nuclear Blast?
Betrayer was formed in 1989 as a thrash metal quartet and as such, in 1990, recorded its first demo “Forbidden Personality.”
The same year there was a change in the line-up. I joined the band as a new bass guitar player shortly after splitting with my previous band Slaughter. I also took over the space behind a microphone. Since then Betrayer started drifting towards stronger and more extreme sounds. That was a turning-point and the beginning of a new era for the band.
Consequently in 1991 Betrayer released their second demo “Necronomical Exmortis”. It happened to be the real killer those days. One of the biggest metal magazines of that time in Poland, Thrash’em All,ranked it second in the category “Album of the Year.” Betrayer hit #4 in “Band of the Year” category. To this day the release is regarded as one of the milestones for Polish death metal music. This is how, I guess, we got signed to Nuclear Blast… Hard work, great gigs, loads of enthusiasm and energy with remarkable music art on top…
Where was “Calamity” recorded, and were these new songs or songs from the demos? What were your musical influences at the time?
Our debut full album Calamity was recorded at Modern Sound Studio in Gdynia, Poland. It was the best option at that time. Really modern and open for new trends in music so most of the reputable bands in Poland cooperated with them. “Necronomical Exmortis” was made in CCS Studio in Warsaw, which was the choice of many Polish stars, not only those in the metal stream. That was the first experience of working with a professional studio and the first official release for Betrayer. “Forbidden Personality” was different, more of amateur and self-made production.
Influences? Everyone had their own and not all were strictly death metal ones. All of them put together, however, made us what we happened to be…
Was it difficult to record and release at that time, just a few years after the political changes in Poland?
I don’t know if that was more difficult than today. I do not even know if political changes had anything to do with those difficulties. Those were different times, times of rebellion and discovering new options and possibilities. Metal underground, and actually all music underground in general, was strong and buoyant in Poland at that time. With Calamity which turned to be a milestone in Polish death metal history, were lucky to be on the top of the ladder, arm in arm with another polish legend, Vader, when the changes turned to be in favor of the musical revolution which opened new horizons and roads of going worldwide.
Finally we were able to spread the power of Polish extreme music all over the world. This also gave us the opportunity to share stages with bands like Morbid Angel, Deicide, Cannibal Corpse, Carcass, Death and too many others to count… Fantastic times!!!
Has Betrayer been on hold since that time, and are there are any other recordings people outside of Poland have missed out on?
We split up in 1994 shortly after releasing our debut album. It was nothing but a huge disappointment for us and the crowd of metalheads devoted to Betrayer. Only years later we learned that Betrayer had been well noticed in so many corners of the world. Instead of going on tour promoting such a great album as Calamity really was and pushing forward, we fucked it up. What a waste… Personal shit, you know… but it’s too late to moan now, isn’t it? I was so pissed off and consequently totally dispirited that I decided to stay away from the stage. In 2012, after nearly eighteen years of non-existence, demons of my inner self decided to remind me who I am and what I live for. There was no other option… Betrayer had to come back to life… and no, you didn’t miss any new recordings, except the split you know of.
You recently released a split with Neolith. What was it like recording this? Why release now?
From the very beginning we didn’t want to built our resurrection on the old stuff so instead of brushing up the songs from the past we decided to concentrate on making completely new material and release a new album. We didn’t want to, however, wait too long to announce to the world that we are back on the road. That’s why we decided to release one of the new tracks on the split. Same was with live appeariances. Initially we planned to do so after releasing the new album but for aforementioned reasons as well as unstoppable craving for going onstage we had to change the assumptions. In summer 2013, Betrayer appeared at Ragnarock Open Air Festival in Germany followed by a series of gigs around Poland. Obviously next to the new songs we performed some of the old ones too. The feedback was so great that in 2014 we were invited to play as a main support for a death metal legend Obituary in the only concert in Poland. Really good feeling and immense motivation, you know.
The Betrayer track on the Neolith split, “Beware,” shows more of an aggressive style and speed metal influence, with less death metal of the fast strumming variety. What motivated this change? Does this show a new direction in your music?
I wouldn’t say that there is a distinct change in Betrayer’s music in general. “Beware” is a song I would put somewhere between Calamity and the earlier “Necronomical Exmortis” demo, and I agree it’s kinda melodic at moments. The split features “Beware” just because this was the only song that we had ready to go at time the opportunity to release came. You might notice that it was not even finally mastered. Be forewarned that this song does not give justice to the whole new stuff …so do not be misled! Betrayer definitely stayed faithful to the death metal genre! You will see it yourself soon!
The question everyone is dying to know… (a) Will there be another Betrayer album? (b) are there any negotiations to re-release Calamity so a new generation can discover it?
Sure it will! I’m proud to announce that our new album Infernum In Terra will be released on March 18th, 2015! The music was mastered in Hertz Studio which cooperated with such bands as Vader, Behemoth, Decapitated or Hate in the past… and I tell you, this is a real good piece of death metal, no doubt about it! We are exteremely satisfied and hope you will be too… and yes, Calamity will also be re-released, just a little bit later! Sounds good, doesn’t it? It looks like it’s gonna be a good year for Betrayer.
How do you describe the music of Betrayer? When you write music, what ideas do you aim for?
Well, it’s the same old Betrayer I reckon. Maybe a bit heavier but still drifting on the old school death metal wave. This is deeply rooted in our mentality and our hearts and truly defines the way we live, think, feel and create at the moment.
Ideas? Hmm, pretty same as before. Music, you know, is the way to express yourself with some kind of ecstasy which you try to give away and infect others with it. When it comes to lyrics and the message, it’s kind of my personal thoughts and feelings about the systems that our existence is implicated in. Especially the religious one, full of contradictions and hypocrisy… you might say “nothing new” but in that context Polish society is deeply premised on that. All this blind glorification of the institution of the Catholic Church as well as other creeds makes me sick and contemptuous. This is what I mainly speak out against.
It seems that everyone knows Poland these days with Vader, Graveland and Behemoth having become popular. What else are we missing out on? You can include both musical and non-musical items!
Oh,yes… Vader… indisputable pillar of the Polish death metal scene! I happened to be the part of the crew for a short period of time back in the 90s. Behemoth… yes, no doubt about it… true gods on the firmament of black metal music world! I’m not too familiar with Graveland, but talking about the extreme music stuff you missed out at least astonishing Decapitated to start with or Hate…
How should people learn more about Betrayer and your own personal (Berial) musical projects? Where do they go to hear the music and keep track of news from the band?
Definitely by reaching our albums and staying tuned to all oncoming news on our web page or facebook profile. There are no other projects in my life at the moment. Betrayer is the only and one that gives me strength and makes me survive in this world of misery.
I’m pleased to hear that in the past we were noticed and are still remembered in the United States with the real hope that we will keep it this way and be honoured to visit your vast lands in future!
Some time ago, musicians from the Chicago area gathered to form a tribute to Led Zeppelin. Instead of creating a new band to imitate the sound, they created a stage show called “Led Zeppelin 2” and tour with it playing the songs of classic Led Zeppelin, which along with the UK heavy guitar rock (The Who, Cream, The Kinks) who predated it was an influence on the early days of metal both through progressive bands like King Crimson and Jethro Tull, and directly on Black Sabbath, a contemporary.
Vocalist Bruce Lamont, who also performs with Corrections House and Yakuza, was kind enough to give us some time to ask him questions about his musical past and the influence Led Zeppelin had and continues to have on heavy metal and heavy music in general. Take it away, Bruce…
You’re currently touring with Led Zeppelin 2. How’s that going? Is this harder than touring with Yakuza, Corrections House, Bloodiest or any of the other bands you’ve been in? What’s different?
Led Zeppelin 2 is a more of a musical theater production: a stage show with costumes, lighting and musical actors. It’s not harder than touring with the other bands, just different. So far 2015 has been going well for the Zep2 show. We have had some good crowds and folks seem to be enjoying themselves.
You’re known for a modern metal background and yet here you are lending your talents to 1970s songs. Have Led Zeppelin always been an influence for you? How did that influence show up in your music?
Led Zeppelin has been in and out of my life since the days of WLS radio here in Chicago. They played Zep tunes long before I even knew who Led Zeppelin was. As far as a creative influence, I appreciate all the musical corners they have touched. From blistering hard rock, to blues-influenced songs, to the acoustic numbers and even dabbling in synth music in the later years. The willingness to push themselves to the extent they did is what I took from them.
In your view, what musical style or genre are bands like Yakuza and Corrections House? What would you say were the primary musical influences on those bands? Do you think they’re closer to metal or hardcore?
I am never one to settle comfortably into any type of label when describing the music from any of the bands i play in. Is their some metal elements to both bands mentioned? Yes. Hardcore? Somewhat. But also many other definable and indefinable sounds come to mind.
What do you think has changed in metal, on a musical and not aesthetic (production, vocal tone, guitar sound, distortion type) level, since the 1970s? Since the early 1990s?
Musically, 70s metal was more recognizably derived from, say, electric blues or the pop rock n roll formula with a little touch of the psychedelic (with just had a harder, heavier edge). This evolved rather quickly even by the end of the 70s with punk rock coming at the same time the name of the game became “speed.” This evolution excelled rapidly through the 1980s.
By the 90s that blues structure from the early 70s could barely be heard, but the speed, intensity and the heavy went into the most extreme ether. I mean compare Suffocation to Budgie. Wow, what a leap ha! As far as modern metal goes, many of the sub-genres that were firmly established in the 90s still exist (even some from the 70s have been brought back around and there are hybrids of both etc., etc.) and by all indications we are at a time where the lines are being blurred now more than ever.
Bands today are bringing in elements from all over the sonic map, keeping the heavy but embracing styles and sounds generally found outside of the metal world and from that many bands have a more realized sound that’s all their own. I like it.
How did you get into music, and what inspired you to take the path that led to Yakuza and Corrections House? Does this inspiration also lead to being in Led Zeppelin 2?
In a nutshell…I listened to the radio quite a bit as a young kid (as I mentioned Zeppelin was one of my favorites). I asked my mother for a guitar but instead was enrolled in school music programs. I first played the viola, then started on the tenor saxophone at age 9. I became a metal junkie in my early teens; got a guitar and played a bit. I started working at an independent record store during my junior year of high school. This opened my world up and I began listening to all sorts of music.
After high school I started playing in bands. In the mid 90s I picked the saxophone back up and went to a ton of jazz/improvisational shows at the Empty Bottle in Chicago. At the same time I heard bands like Neurosis and Meshuggah and wanted to get into something that was heavy but had room to reach beyond the heavy. I joined Yakuza in 2000. Within a year I played my first show with what would become Led Zeppelin 2. There ya have it. Full Circle.
How was the Houston show? I’m told Houston is a flat, hot, humid city filled with Californians who think the houses are cheap and are willing to overlook the roaches, snakes and mosquitoes for 2300 calorie diner plates. What as your impression of Houston?
Houston is huge for us. It was one of the first places we played outside of Chicago and has always been great. Killer crowds, killer energy. Gotta love that.
Back in 2012, I conducted an interview with one of the new “morbid wave” death/black metal bands who focus on atmosphere instead of pure riff acrobatics and internal contrast. These bands, borrowing widely from Incantation and Blasphemy, create a rushing wave of darkness that drones into extended mood pieces immersing the listener in a hopeless morbidity. Guitarist A.V. answered my questions…
What was your primary goal since the beginning that you set out to emanate with Dead Congregation and how do you think the band stands compared to other contemporaries of this style? Do you think Dead Congregation has carved its mark in the underground as an entity to be reckoned with?
Our time has been extremely limited in the past couple of years so we don’t really do interviews anymore, this one is of the new exceptions. Our goal was will always be to feed the fire of creation we have in us as artists and channel all that inspiration in the shape of compositions and ultimately recordings. Once our songs are recorded the way we have conceived them then it’s out of our hands. We’re not after world domination and other vanity-driven goals. We’re not the ones who should say what makes us different from our peers but it definitely seems that we have a stronger following than most.
Your debut album Grave of the Archangels received quite a bit of attention from the underground/extreme metal community when it was released in 2008; how important was the distribution of the album and what are your thoughts on all the constructive feedback concerning it? I gather you must be more than content with the good promotion endowed by NWN?
In reality there was no promotion at all from either the band or the label. NWN has a strong name in the underground and many people follow what that label does but none of us have ever sent out any promos or placed adds on related press and such. Apart from some selective gigs that we do most of the attention we’ve received is gained by ‘word of mouth’ in the underground. I guess when the material is strong it will find its way to surface sooner or later. Although we were extremely confident about the quality of our recording we didn’t really expect to receive so much feedback and sell so many copies.
Before the debut, you released the mini-album called Purifying Consecrated Ground which was released under Konqueror Records. What can you tell us about this rather obscure label and how you got in contact with them? How many copies and formats were printed of this release and what are your feelings regarding it on the present day? Has the style changed much at all between the two releases?
Konqueror Records got in touch with us in regards to our previous band Nuclear Winter and they wanted to sign us for an album. We explained that Nuclear Winter was laid to rest and we had a new band working on new material and they trusted us enough to offer a deal without listening a demo from Dead Congregation. We will always be grateful to them for releasing the first ever Dead Congregation recording and meeting all our demands with success. After that initial version there have been a lot of re-releases: CASSETTE version (Nuclear Winter Records, 515 copies and counting), 10”MLP (Necrocosm Records, 666 copies), MCD Digipack (Enucleation Records, 1000 copies), 12”MLP (NWN!, 1000 copies), 12”MLP (NWN! tour edition, 250 copies), 12”MLP Picture Disc (NWN!, 200 copies), MCD re-release with altered design (Nuclear Winter Records, 500 copies). We’re still proud of it as a recording, looking back you always find things you could have done differently/better yet it still represents the band at that time and some of the compositions in there are of the strongest we’ve done, in my opinion. The style is the same, yet we took it a few steps further for the album in the sense that we have a more personal sound on the full length.
Music-wise, what are to you the most essential aspects for a death metal band? Some say it’s the rhythm of the guitars, some say it’s the drum beat, and others say it’s the vocals… Maybe it’s a bit of everything? How do you manage do create such a morose atmosphere with your music?
I think it’s the feeling and atmosphere above all. The same riff can sound completely different if you alter important factors such us sound, drumming, the way you hit the chords on the guitar and many more. But in the end it’s all about the atmosphere a recording creates, if it doesn’t ooze of death and morbidity then it shouldn’t be labeled as Death Metal simply because the vocals are distorted and the drums are fast.
Many say that black and death metal must remain as subversive as possible or else it loses touch with its primary essence; what are your thoughts on that? Would you consider a band a sellout if they signed to a big label like Nuclear Blast?
It’s hard to say because in the old days all bands were on major labels without compromising their integrity and some bands still manage to do it. It has to do with how focused you are and what your goals have been from the beginning as spoken earlier. If a band feels like a label is trying to make them deviate from their initial goal then it’s up to the band to decide if they want to stick with that label or not. Truth is that on big labels you get to have less artistic freedom and it’s one of the reasons why we’ve rejected all offers from big labels but I’ll never judge another band for wanting to get ‘big’ and sign to a big label. If that’s what they want it’s fine by me, they do their thing, we do our thing.
What inspired the name DEAD CONGREGATION? I think it articulates your music rather well.
Thank you, we think so too. It’s a song title from our previous band Nuclear Winter and it seemed very appropriate as the moniker of the new incarnation.
Just how important is artistic appeal for you? Does aesthetics play a big role in your music? If Black and Death Metal doesn’t classify as art, then what is it?
Aesthetics are very important as long as they serve a purpose. If they complement the album as a whole and work hand in hand with the music and lyrics then I’m definitely all for good artwork and design. The problem is that many bands focus on that too much and forget the essence which is music above all. They try to hide their mediocre albums behind fancy illustrations and 20-page booklets for the vinyl edition. Same goes for ‘die hard’ versions of albums by bands that can barely sell 300 copies of a release. So yes, in some cases it is important when it’s done by bands who actually have to offer something substantial but a dirty whore will always remain one even if you dress her up in the most expensive clothes if you know what I mean.
As a counterpoint to great aesthetics I have to mention albums like Deicide’s debut that were badly designed, yet that eliminated none of the greatness of the album after all.
What would be the perfect depiction for your sound and what would you like for the listener to feel while he/she is listening to your music?
There are no fancy terms to describe our music, it’s just darkened Death Metal the way we perceive it as true.
I’m curious about the split you did with Germany’s Hatespawn and how you got in contact with the band. What do you think about their demo, “Ascent From The Kingdom Below”?
Hmm, can’t remember if it was us who asked them to join us for the split release or the other way around. We definitely admire Hatespawn’s body of work collectively otherwise we’d never have agreed to do a split release with them.
How important is it for a band like yourself to do a split with bands with whom you share a common vision? I personally don’t think it would suite your band very well to do a split with an ordinary thrash or punk act. I mean, your music is dark and evokes an atmosphere of pure morbidity, thus I think its obligatory for a band of your nature to do a split with bands, who, more-or-less, have the same ideals as you; do you agree? I guess it’s a controversial subject to dive into.
As I said above, we do find it important that bands who are featured in split releases share common grounds in vision, ideology, aesthetics, etc. Diversity is definitely accepted on music itself, as long as there’s similar ideals behind both bands. For example we don’t sound anything like Teitanblood or Katharsis but we’d gladly do a split with those bands because we know they’re like-minded people and our general perception of death/black metal is very similar. The same goes for gigs, when we are asked to play live we always check if the other bands on the billing have similar values as us, at least the majority of them.
How has the current economic climate in your Country affected you personally and what do you think are the possibilities of the situation improving soon?
It affects everyone in Greece more or less but I can’t complain, I’m a fighter and I’ll always find a way to get by even under harder circumstances. I’m not too optimistic about the economy improving soon since we’re governed by idiots and incompetent politicians who don’t care about the country’s prosperity.
What would it really take for human beings to change or do you think we are incapable of such?
The human race is the definition of a parasite, especially in these days of materialistic values. The majority of people’s actions are driven by selfish intentions and very few see the big picture and how every action has a consequence that might back fire on you in the end. It will take some very dramatic change in our lives before we have our wake-up call and then it will be too late.
From one point of view that’s good because the weak will be weeded out, however leeches and parasites always have a way of surviving also so there’s no hope for mankind after all.
Which 5 albums would you consider as the pinnacle of death metal and why?
That’s very hard to limit to only 5 albums but some of the most important in the sense that they shaped entire scenes are:
Morbid Angel – Abominations of Desolation / Altars of Madness
Immolation – Dawn of Possession
Death – Scream Bloody Gore
Entombed / Nihilist – early material
Malevolent Creation – The Ten Commandments (because it’s one of my fave albums of all time regardless of genres)
With which bands have you played live with, and what would you consider as one of your most worthwhile moments as far as playing live? Are there any interesting stories you can perhaps share with us? What about alcohol, does that play a factor at your shows or do you try to keep things as professional and tight as possible?
We have shared the stage with too many bands to be mentioned here but the truth is that personally I always enjoy it more when we play with buddies and allies of ours such as Grave Miasma, Cruciamentum, Drowned, Archgoat, Kaamos, Antaeus etc, than playing with bigger bands and/or big festivals. The atmosphere and vibes are a lot better when you play with like minded people as said before. A recent gig that was very close to perfect from all aspects was when we played with Sadistic Intent and Nocturnal Vomit some months ago.
We’re not heavy drinkers at all, we always have a few drinks but never to the point of being drunk out of our minds. It’s how we are as people and it doesn’t have to do with wanting to be ‘professional’ or ‘tight’.
Is there anything else you’d like to disclose before we close this interrogation? Maybe you can tell us what to expect from your death-coven in the future?
Our next album is entirely composed and we hope to record it on the early months of 2013, we just need to find some time between gigs and focus on that. We already recorded a 3-song demo in August and it sounds pretty massive without even mixing it so we’ll have a similar recording approach for the album which is basically: record everything as good as you can without correcting mistakes because you’re only human and you can’t fake to be something better than you are and most importantly IGNORE everything that the sound engineer says because he’s just a tool and his recommendations just slow you down and make you go in circles before you’ll end up in your initial approach anyway, haha.
Some weeks ago we received a letter from a band called Viranesir who informed us both that they were creating metal music and that they faced a good deal of pushback for their treatment of controversial topics. Since 2014 is the year of political speech control, corruption and controversy, I wrote them asking if they would conduct a brief interview with us. From that arose this dialogue with Viranesir from Turkey…
“Sublimation is a great mystery.” — C. G. Jung
When did Viranesir start and who are the personnel? What musical influences inspired its creation? What does the name mean?
Viranesir started out in 2013 when I created it to score my first feature length film “Drink From The Fountain Of Uncertainty.” I remember it being initially on my thoughts for longer out of the influence that Quorthon made Quorthon as a creatively fuelling side project to Bathory and I wanted to do one for YAYLA, and with “Drink From The Fountain Of Uncertainty” came the opportunity.
Personnel are myself, Merdumgiriz and Ruhanathanas. We switch instruments and styles very frequently but its usually Merdumgiriz on drums, myself on guitar/vox and Ruhan on synth/vox. Musically speaking some common bands that all our current members enjoy in our blood orgies include Abruptum, Haus Arafna, early John Frusciante, Ildjarn-Nidhogg, early Deathspell Omega, G.G. Allin, Til Det Bergens Skyggene, Screamin’ Jay Hawkins and Poesie Noire. All of which I think to some extent can be traced as influences on our current and future discography. The name comes from where Musician ends up in “Drink From The Fountain Of Uncertainty” on his solipsistic quest for his personal redemption. The place he ends up is Viranşehir (means ruined city); we manipulated it as Viranesir (ruined slave).
From what I have seen, Raping Lesbians For Freedom is some kind of Swiftian satire. What are you satirizing with this album and its provocative title?
I haven’t heard Jonathan Swift’s name since grade school. Anyhow, before anything, I’d like to get some shit straight, we ain’t racist (we were all born into “hard to find more worthless” races), sexist (one of us is a female and all of us are bi) nor do we hold any “political” views (not in the sense that most mean). We hold the opinion that everyone in society is responsible for all the suffering in the world, therefore we kind of confess for others through this album. And yeah, we are bullies, genociders, rapists, murderers and animal torturers because someone committing that shit no matter when or where or who makes me as a human being responsible so long as I live.
I don’t think wearing El Che wristbands, mate calling in LGBTI parades or fighting for justice on the internet saves me from the fact that I am, like everybody else, a scum of this universe. All our hands are perpetually bloodstained in my book and metal and punk are among the most noble, healthy and effective mediums for expressing the heaviness of that burden through psychological sublimation, even raising awareness. But the political correct “authorities” are currently trying to sterilize these mediums so that their warzone is more of a fairytale. Well, we’ll rape their lesbian souls until they scream as their own sex!
Funny threats aside, I do not have a problem with these fascists under liberal skin until their elaborate self-contradiction becomes a means for oppression. I am and have been fed up with issues of freedom of speech. Especially from people who do not feel any responsibility for the suffering of mankind. Hypocritical educated pieces of shit who are deep racists, sexists, animal murderers, child abusers and torturers hiding behind so called racial sensitivities, feminism, vegetarianism, making children, naming, excluding in all its perverse forms; subliminally abusing the individualistic and promoting what they claim to fight against. Most artists who tackle these hard subjects directly are tired of dying for these people’s piece of shit sins as they have a good time in their festivals of peace as they exclude our “politically incorrect” work with their guilt propaganda and subliminal calls to censorship.
Wake up! People are murdering each other at family dinner tables everyday as they raise future killers by taking out their anger for their husbands on their children. We are the future of these very children and we need to take out our criminal intentions on songs we sing not your privileged lesbian assess. These mothers who raise us are the “politically correct” most of us worship. Why are they “politically correct”? I think it is because that is their confession booth in which they wash the blood of their hands with holy water. Well, nothing wrong with that except when they fuck with our temples in which we work with the blood through albums we make and sing about murder and abuse and rape, a more direct way of getting rid of the stench of blood that our, and their hands are painted with. Well, it pleases me that so far they have the right and tools to tell me that I am an inconsiderate up to no good piece of shit as I have the right to make this album. What a wonderful world.
How much does provoking the ire of religious people factor into your artistic work? Does it matter which religion?
I fucking hate the mainstream religions (jewism, footsmellam, gayristianity, atheism, nationalism), for the facts that most of their followers seem to A. otherise evil B. seek extension. Also, in footsmellam it seems the trend of using murder as a means of communication is at its peak, therefore I’d rather they all be degraded & destroyed as your rapper president suggests. With my music, I don’t want to merely provoke the ire of religious people because it is no different than kicking a huge dog. To make something happen with religion, I’d more so want to provoke the so-called “irreligious” people into acting like and realizing that they are the religious scum that they strive to fight against, and help them and myself craft more effective solutions.
In my opinion everybody is religious in that they form some sort of worldview that makes them relate to this uncertain existence and form a kind of “certainty matrix” through their vague and often highly distorted collection of memories. A matrix that tells them that if what they do in life brings them “success,” then the next unknown (eventually death) might not actually be unconquerable after all. Practicing their religion everyday through believing blindly in saying, doing and justifying things that make them feel good no matter how self-conflicting and half-thought they may be. It is a shame to admit that the mainstream religious are the ones who actually “in theory” submit to this tragedy. However, this does not at all mean that I respect or enjoy mainstream religious people. I just think it would be wise not to “otherise” in fighting against the tyranny of religion, because after all, it is a cheap weapon used by “pure religious radicalism” which is achieved exactly through fighting through otherising (see ISIS, Nazi Germs, guerilla, crusaders, Hollywood). And that is what most of us seem to do, however fighting without otherising can be achieved for example through discussion and self-criticism, which is only possible through total freedom of speech.
All religions, including in the cosmology sections of the most grimoires of Satanism that I became acquainted with (for example in their interpretation of the monarchic one God) have otherised and not considered the fact that the air we breathe is stenched with disparity yet we strive for unity. Of course Satanism (especially blended with quality black metal) is different in that it is an anti-religion and turning the spiritual theory on its head; in my interpretation and opinion, it is the gateway to a slightly more advanced cosmology and anti-belief system in that it is rooted in the depths of the human psyche and works with our need for certainty in a completely perverted manner especially in its alchemy of evil (that is why we formed Blliigghhtted).
Can you tell us where you are located? Are there any particular challenges about being a metal band, and having freedom of speech, there?
We are currently located in Istanbul/Turkey. No challenge whatsoever being a metal band and it gets me more pussy than most other countries I’ve lived in (Canada, America, England). I also run a record label here (www.merdumgiriz.org), my cheap ass fellow countrymen love us but never support us by buying our products, but its okay, at least they don’t behead us like the footsmellic sons of bitches they could have been. In terms of speech, there are no bigger issues than most of the west because we don’t have much of the idiocy called political correctness (Ruhan can often be seen around Turkey wearing a huge Swastika Mahakali shirt without getting any shit except from loser European tourists), however we have religious correctness to some extent, but not much.
I can actually say that between the respectable bigotries of the west and of east, Turkey is a calm little freedom center. Except if your speech is politically inclined; the only problem here is that if the government sees you as a threat, they will incarnate you. They are far from seeing Viranesir as a threat yet, which is our luck. Where fine art can go is way beyond the capacity of politics, and I am interested in such extremes that I can never even get close through politics. Yeah, yeah I know that I am actually sort of political even in saying that, but the particular challenge here that I am talking about would be to say shit about our government, certain political parties and its handsome leaders, a certain genocide, our blissful religion, our beautiful race and stuff, which except for footsmellam, I don’t really give two fucks to say anything about. Also, if I did, they might block access to DMU, which they do for many sites including all porn sites and many political sites. They got people on the tax-funded payroll searching and blocking “inappropriate” sites all day long.
It seems to me that freedom of speech is a bit of a paradox. Each society wants people to be able to express ideas, but does not want to be overwhelmed with speech for speech’s sake, which may not be relevant, true or important. How do we decide which speech is valuable, and which is not?
I contrarily think that society subliminally wants to be overwhelmed with speech for speech’s sake for a greater purpose, that is the reason for the blooming of social media. In my view speech is therapy, and the ejaculation of the unconscious; it is very healthy and to me, should definitely be totally set free.
For a merrier world, “no one should have to fear saying anything”. Since in my opinion deep inside society is aware of this, through saying a whole lot of nothing on twitter and facebook (and building a collective consciousness), it is getting ready for the future, which I feel is total freedom of speech. It is only a matter of time until we are all able to say many currently unimaginable things anywhere without getting treated as we are actually doing them.
Saying something is very important; for it is a lengthy and complex phase of contemplation (which inevitably leads to discussion, collective consideration and most importantly relief) before eventually doing it (except if you get in trouble for merely saying it) that most people skip. Saying something opens it up for contemplation and in my view, every speech is valuable; from the seemingly petty half-thought footsmellic rant of Arabic sand [redacted] to the meowing of a cat to a brain-dead high school girls vlog about relationships to a man-hating feminists blog entry on censorship to Quebecois peasants swearing disgusting French to each other in an alley way to Marxist-Lenninist bullshit preached by people who’ve never seen a socialist country to Schopenhauer’s aphorisms to spiritually enlightening Dissection lyrics. Something is to be learnt from all of them through interpretation and although many utterances can lead to unpleasant outcomes, it is the individual and the individual alone who should decide for what they should say. Irrelevant, untrue, unimportant, seemingly dangerous and/or extreme; I do not think prohibiting or censoring any sort of speech will get us anything but perpetual inner pain, stagnation and destructive destruction.
I’ve been told by others that Viranesir often gets compared to Anal Cunt, G.G. Allin and Impaled Nazarene, all of whom were very provocative. Do you see any commonality there?
I see much commonality, and personally feel that we have similar viewpoints for psychological sublimation in art. They too do not deny the blood on their hands and celebrate the fact that they are as human beings, no different than footsmellic arab murderers, rapists, torturers, bigots, animals, idiots. Viranesir, along with all those bands and many more all celebrate our impurity to be able to live with ourselves, unlike the hypocritical so called democratic bullies who not only otherise what they name to be evil and escape from their mental responsibilities, but condemn the ones who don’t as being extremists to raise hate for what they don’t understand. Speech can be beyond choosing sides or naming good & bad or love & hate.
Everybody is capable of bearing love and hate for the same thing, and they often do. Just as everything has the quality of bearing both good and evil qualities that also depend greatly on how one perceives them. Most things I do stem from the interaction of my emotions when I come in contact with these things that I bear conflicting feelings upon. When I say I hate something, I often mean I love it and vice versa. For example I can write a song saying “I love animal torture and taking advantage of women”. Although I “hate” both things in theory, I often use money to put a beast that I otherwise couldn’t have gotten closer than the eye can see to my plate, oh and I excuse the fact that it gets transcendent torture beforehand. Even if I think I don’t do it, I give money to restaurants that do it, or have friends who do it not if I let them pump their semen up my ass.
I also often use beer, money, my artistic projects and patience to insert my penis into some female vagina. Even if I don’t do it I give money to bars that it is being done in or have friends who do it not if I let them do it to me. I am with the thought that rather than denying the fact that I directly or indirectly participate in these tribal transactions through glamorous theatrics like vegetarianism and feminism and temporarily calm my conflicting soul until I bump into the next tragedy that reminds my unconscious that I am self-contradicting, why not sing about them in a more direct manner and rid myself off of the illusion that I can be consistent and just when what I am made of is inconsistent and unjust? To the party concerned, through direct speech and sublimation in art, perhaps I can say what most leave unsaid, grant relief, and raise more awareness and some real shame than to protest against this shit by guilt propaganda and trying to ban it, totally degrading free will and sense of responsibility. In other words, degrading my own humanity just like the mainstream religious scum.
Does Viranesir have previous albums? What were those like? Were they concept albums like Raping Lesbians for Freedom?
Our previous albums Kill Your Repulsive Child, Shoot On Mom’s Corpse and Fountain Of Uncertainty as their titles might suggest are all concept albums in my opinion. Kill Your Repulsive Child is our first venture into psychedelic synthpunk. It is a very personal album in that it is directly about my life, but very vaguely put together and useful for free interpretation. The music is crazy psychotic drumming mixed with schizophrenic vocals and chaotic fat synths. Shoot On Mom’s Corpse is the same thing, and is the continuation of the trilogy started with Kill Your Repulsive Child, however, it is better produced and both lyrically and compositionally way more concise. There is going to be a “father” album to conclude the synthpunk trilogy, which is very different and way grander than the other two.
All these three albums are based on my short story called Axiom Rotting, which as I said, is directly about mein leben. is a whole different thing; it is made solely by me as the music of the musician character in my film Drink From The Fountain Of Uncertainty which is a character based on me. It is a very dark sort of experimental metal with synths; way thicker produced than all other Viranesir albums. Me, me, me yes it’s all about me and know-it-all it may sound, I personally think that anyone claiming that anything that they do is not ALL about themselves are at best self-deceiving hypocrites no different than vegan bitches swallowing the cum of their McDonald’s consuming lovers.
As I understand it, “Raping Lesbians for Freedom” is based on a text that you and/or other band members wrote, and the characters in that text become voice actors on the album. What’s it like to write an album based on dystopian fiction that you’ve written?
Some weeks back Viranesir had a quarrel with Polish tourists who insisted Ruhan took off her swastika shirt. Ruhan was in shock trying to explain that it was ceremonial and stuff whilst a bitch in their group was screaming “Take it off, take it off” at the same time all of the others shouting how their Jewish grandparents died or got saved from the genocide and stuff while a Kurdish fag on the street joined their side and started cursing us for being Nazis. I basically stood between them and Ruhan and calmly improvised what would become the song titles.
I mirrored what I interpreted as their indirect anger and became their mouth to say what I understood they really wanted to say from their tone. After I said, “Don’t be a fascist and tell us what to do” to the slut, they magically stopped. Other than their following us for a while, no side breached the speech barrier and it was all good. Afterword we had a blast dancing in a superb club that night, then we went back home. We discussed what happened again and Ruh just uttered, “Political correctness is European ignorance” and exited the house. Merdumgiriz & me booked a studio and started recording the event as actors in a play. Re-interpreted the beautiful chaotic disparity that different races, thoughts and sexes bloomed as they came together that night into music and words. The outcome is a beautiful alchemical artifact of centuries old subdued hatred into rock music. All made possible through freedom of speech and sublimation of civilized people. I quite often do these kinds of things for creativity and it is safe to say that my life has become an album based on dystopian fiction that I’m constantly writing.
What do you hope the reaction will be? If people are interested in what you are doing, where do they go to see more?
The reaction will come from both sides, the rowdy, beer drinking have a laughers might love it for its psycho-ness, freeness and the raw music, while the educated elitist other might hate it for its uneducated music and political incorrectness and lack of sensitivity towards victims of rape, genocide, abuse and murder, which they will presume I have no experience of. I personally find both to be equally uninteresting reactions from a society that smells like the area between my balls and ass when it thickens with greasy filth as I lock myself home for days to write new music and screenplays while I jack off with cheap lubricants all day long. The reactions I care about will come from people who sit down and take a moment to interpret what I do into thoughts that I couldn’t have conjured by myself; negative or positive.
That is what art deserves, not “hahaha you guys are psychos”s or political piece of shit correctness, sensitivity or censorship or anything political. Where politics (social hypocrisy) is not enough to calm human soul that is where fine art comes to aid. I would hope to have intellectual, lofty, philosophical and existential conversations on evil about my album with people who don’t use “like” as punctuation marks and their Majors in Philosophy as proof of legitimacy. That was a joke, come as you are, as you were and chances are you will find me one surprisingly kind son of a bitch!
If people are interested in what I am doing, they shall go to:
Serbian black metal band Zloslut has created some of the more interesting music to emerge from the underground of late and stand on the verge of releasin their second album, U Transu Sa Nepoznatim Siluetama in spring 2015. Main composer Utvara took some time to talk with us about the upcoming album and future of this innovative act…
What first attracted you to black metal music?
I would say it’s atmosphere, and its attitude toward all opposition.
What does black metal music communicate, represent or have as a value?
This depend from person to person, band to band and from era to era of the genre itself.
For me black metal represents all negation that “normal” people can’t stand. Primitivism with a way and a goal.
Its value was lost long ago. There are some good bands today of course! Even if I didn’t have the chance to experience black metal in the 90s, I can feel that it is not now what it was intended to be, judging by people who been through it, interviews and some well-documented movies.
Are you the sole creator of Zloslut? How did you decide to go ahead with this “lineup”?
Yes, Zloslut is me, Utvara.
The faithful individuals that follow me on shows are live session members.
You write and sing in your native language. Why did you make the choice to do this and not just use English, German and Norwegian like most black metal now?
I do this because I live in Serbia currently and I think it is an opportunity to know another language than English.
Many bands sing in English; I think it’s more original to sing in your native language, other then English if you have that privilege.
For those who don’t know that language, it will give them an esoteric feeling. As it gives me too when I listen to some Norwegian, Polish, German bands…
Zloslut have songs in English (three on the demo, one of them was re-recorded, it’s “Abyss of Eternal Deception” the track that closed the EP “Pustoš i prevare izgubljenih duša”) and two in French (one on the demo, and one other that was on the split “Anti-Human Manifest” with the song “Le Tonneau De La Haine,” with the text of Charles Baudelaire from Les Fleurs du Mals).
But I’m pretty sure that a musician who speaks several languages will agree with me that it depends from song to song.
Some sound better in English, but some must be in their native language because of its uniqueness.
Are you self-releasing your work as Dark Chants productions? Why this route and not another label?
Yes. Why? Because today anyone can be a label and many of them don’t take this work seriously. I have a problem with trusting a guy who runs a label on the other side of the planet. I don’t want someone to release my work and make a mistake. So I prefer to carry that burden myself.
I feel more safer when I do the work. I would rather support a mistake made by myself than by somebody else. The day I would let someone do that work is the day I will sign to a serious label who knows how things must be, but I have not had that chance yet.
What would you say inspires your songwriting, as in topics or emotions?
It depends; I guess that the lifestyle has a big impact in the work of a one man band.
The majority of my days are passed in reading, listening to music, and playing instruments. I’m not an “evil misanthropic” guy… It’s just that I enjoy times of loneliness. The feeling of melancholy gives me a lot of inspiration to write lyrics, music…
Or I let the intuition guide me. More people should try that, it’s amazing!
Too many bands today want to be like their idol, or for example the Disney band Watain. This brings us back to the second question, haha.
You’re about to release a new album, U Transu Sa Nepoznatim Siluetama available in 2015. How will this differ from your past work?
A lot. I think that this album is what I wanted to make since the creation of Zloslut, but couldn’t because of many obstacles, such as maturity, money, time and countless other factors.
Basically, everything is how I imagined it, so I think this album is the stamp of Zloslut, until further work.
This is definitely the most mature album and songs I’ve ever made.
I’m generally very negative when I make something. I always think that it should be otherwise, but I didn’t let that feeling overtake me.
What other styles or ideas influence you outside of black metal? How much does the history and current social/political/economic situation in your nation influence your thinking?
Literature (especially poetry), classical music…
I don’t let politics affect me in my musical world. I have some political opinions about Europe which are extreme for some people I believe. But I prefer to keep that for myself.
I don’t want to mix politics with my music, because they don’t have a connecting point. It’s pointless. Even if I love some bands that have some connections with politics.
What bands primarily influenced your basic style, and has this changed for U Transu Sa Nepoznatim Siluetama?
The bands that influenced me for Zloslut have not really changed since I created it.
When it comes to black metal, bands that influenced me the most were Burzum, Judas Iscariot, Taake, Peste Noire, Inquisition, Drudkh, Urfaust…
And I can’t hide my appreciation for the Finnish black metal scene. Almost all of them have something melancholic in their sounds… So Baptism, Sargeist, Noenum, Satanic Warmaster, Nattfog, Horna… I think that today they are the bearers of the “black metal flag.”
But the band that made my path into metal was Iron Maiden, and still today after more than fifteen years, I listen to them everyday at least once.
Classical music is also tied to me since I was a child. I was in music school for seven or eight years as a kid.
I love minimalistic pianist such as Philip Glass, Eric Satie (but just a few composition from him), but also the famous Tchaikovsky, Strauss…
And from time to time I like to put some OI Punk bands in the player, simple riffs, nervous voice with good messages.
Where did you record this latest album, and what techniques did you use? What were your goals for the sound/production of the music?
It was recorded in Belgrade, Serbia. I wanted something between crystal clear and raw sound, how to say, to keep the atmospheric spirit of Black Metal.
I’m not a gearhead, to be honest, I’m more into music creation. Knowledge of technical sound production was never my interest (until recently). I leave that to the producers in general, in this case for this album was Nemanja Krneta (a.k.a. Zlorog). I tell him what I want, and then we together explore all the possibilities.
And I’m very happy with how everything turned out.
How do you compose? Do you start with a riff, an idea, an emotion or something else? How do you link together your riffs?
Oh, this depends from track to track, generally with a riff, then I slowly start to create a text, and then assemble everything until it sounds well-arranged for my taste.
What comes next for Zloslut? Will you tour, or record again?
Well after U Transu Sa Nepoznatim Siluetama will be released around spring 2015 we plan to tour in Europe to promote the new album. We have some offers, but much more details will come after the release see the light… And maybe some summer festivals.
For more recording, definitely I have some ideas, but nothing for 2015, since I really want to promote the album as it should be.
I don’t want to drown the fans with many albums, EPs, splits, singles etc…