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What if another good metal band ever existed?

"You're acting like a victim" "being the martyr"

Good grief dude. Why bother replying if you're not going to say anything and you're reduced to just randomly contriving banal pissing contest counter attacks? You were asked to clarify. You're not owning what you said.

"Should more such things come, great - if they should not, there is no loss, because what has come already is more than enough. I think it's healthy to step away from the greed-oriented consumerist mindset of always wanting more."

"Wanting new, valid art and wanting to encourage metal to continue is now wanting more products as taught by consumerism? Is that the point of this dig? "





I did clarify, and you whined more. What does "you're not owning what you said" mean?

You said "No". That isn't a clarification.

I think you originally meant to imply wanting more good metal is like a consumerist mentality, but backed away when questioned about it. Like I said originally, you probably felt like that fit your premise as you typed it. The need for pithiness can obscure meaning.

Back to the original point - the more I think about this the more I feel it would be a tragedy if no more good metal came out. Its values are eternal and the form is timeless. I think it would be a grand failure if we could produce nothing else of value in an artform that at most has been around since 1970 but in effect has only been around since 1984 and stopped being great on a large scale by 1994.

You are right.  It is a tragedy, but all festivals end as festivals must, and I don't want to see metal carried on and on until it festers into another interesting scene that happened once.  I hope Romans in 410 weren't sitting around hoping for another empire to come along.

First I said "no." I was hoping you would ask yourself what else I could have meant, instead of taking the easy way out and asking me. When that didn't happen, I said "Wanting good new metal is not consumerism - being disappointed if no good new metal emerges does come from the same mindset that breeds consumerist thought... Actively desiring MOAR to the point of dissatisfaction if it is not given is consumerism in a nutshell. Being content with what you already have is antithetical to it at its core - even if you allow for the possibility of more to come. There is an enormous difference between accepting something and needing it." I don't think that sounds like backing away. Pithiness may or may not obscure meaning, but willingly avoiding meaning definitely obscures it.

Yes, the form is timeless, for multiple reasons. One of those reasons is because some of the works that came out in said form are themselves timeless - and because they are, it is silly to ask for more timelessness. How do you make "more" eternity? I would say that there is easily enough room left for more of SOMETHING to come in the same spirit. Something that expresses the same eternal values - if they are eternal, and there is yet room to explore, then the void *will* eventually be filled. This is simply a reflection of how the universe operates. But it might not even be metal in a technical sense(songs with distorted instruments that step away from verse-chorus structures), even if it is very metal in spirit. It might not be music at all. And if it turns out to be something other than music, it would be foolish to deride it solely for that.

I think it's far more likely for any new piece of quality Art (in a musical format) to be neo-classical (Metal/Electronica/"Classical") than not (pop/rock/rap/r&b/dance), so it would make more sense to look more closely at those genres of music which force their composers to compose in a non-derivative fashion (or, really, to "compose" at all).
Unfortunately, this is probably true. Metal has been embraced by such an enormous portion of society now that it barely exists outside of the mainstream, which is all about the derivative.

I can copy the wheel, but my wheel is shoddy and lacklustre, as was my attitude when copying the original.  In fact, my main reason for copying the wheel is that everyone knows the wheel is an outlandish yet cool invention, and I want to be outlandish and cool too.  However, as a result of my outlook, while the original wheel is perfectly round (Plato, lol), mine is polygonal.  Sure, from a distance, the two could be duplicates, but on closer inspection, mine just doesn't work as smoothly.

I think the stance we should take as to what is and what is not "Metal" should focus on instrumentation, the goal of the composer(s), and the general aesthetic/atmosphere of the band and the band's music.  Taking these things into consideration, we can easily distinguish Slipknot (distorted sound, angsty "me me me" crap, and visual "hook" over actually good music = rock/pop) from (early) Deicide (distorted sound, attempting to summon Satan through music, quite standard "Hessian" packaging = Death Metal).  I would even go as far as to say that the majority of modern "Metal", so called, is, in actuality, little better than the rock/pop of Slipknot/Limp Bizkit/KoRn.  It's "look at me, I'm heavy, and I'm depressed about life and sing about killing shit" against "look at this, this is real, it's Nihil, and it's your truth and your fate, and you've got to step up and embrace it".

I agree quality over quantity but at the same time I am always looking for something new (or old but new to me), just more, more ,more. perhaps it's the last bit of hedonism left in me at this point in time.
one thing to contemplate, I believe metal is the last masculine force in pop culture in this feminized world we live in. I surely wouldnt want to see it die. if it did, yes I'd have my collection of great stuff but the next generation and beyond would surely be deprived.
one good band to come out once a year instead of thousands of shitty bands would be a lot easier on us to find good stuff but if it wasn't for the never ending barrage of crap bands to come out each week, metal as a whole would probably wither and die. how can you possibly have any great accomplishments without numerous failures to learn from your mistakes? if it wasn't for millions of bands trying, no one would and we would have nothing at all. if there were no crap albums, how would you know what a good one is with nothing to compare it to? it is competition that breeds a better product not isolation.

I agree quality over quantity but at the same time I am always looking for something new (or old but new to me), just more, more ,more. perhaps it's the last bit of hedonism left in me at this point in time.
one thing to contemplate, I believe metal is the last masculine force in pop culture in this feminized world we live in. I surely wouldnt want to see it die. if it did, yes I'd have my collection of great stuff but the next generation and beyond would surely be deprived.
one good band to come out once a year instead of thousands of shitty bands would be a lot easier on us to find good stuff but if it wasn't for the never ending barrage of crap bands to come out each week, metal as a whole would probably wither and die. how can you possibly have any great accomplishments without numerous failures to learn from your mistakes? if it wasn't for millions of bands trying, no one would and we would have nothing at all. if there were no crap albums, how would you know what a good one is with nothing to compare it to? it is competition that breeds a better product not isolation.

Metal isn't rewarding the right things though. The competition in modern myspace metal is akin to the natural selection in the aquarium trade.

I agree but will the trends of the next decade be for the better or worse? I might turn into one of these old classic rock guys that just hates everything new, but who knows. true art is almost never rewarding. how many times have you all stumbled upon an old underground release you missed the bus on that blew you away? a lot of really good demo bands from the tape trading era were never rewarded, just had their riffs stolen. does that make it any less great because it's unknown to the masses? of course not.  for all I know there could be really good current stuff thats so obscure I never heard of it and probably won't until ten years from now.

To that point, have you heard any of the recent wave of Finnish bands or any of the stuff popular in Texas? I think they're starting to reverse this negative trend.

chv

Music changes its standards when the social atmosphere it is in starts to require a change of standards. Like all social constructs built on personal preference products, they function under very simple economic principles.

to wolfgang "To that point, have you heard any of the recent wave of Finnish bands or any of the stuff popular in Texas? I think they're starting to reverse this negative trend. "

got any recommendations for me? I'm kind of out of the loop as far as new stuff but I'm always on the lookout for something good. I'm a big fan of old school texas metal too (necrovore, rigor mortis etc). please leave links.

"What are you, a Lois Althusser fan? I fucking HATE Althusser and ALL of his followers, ok? You better fucking get that. I dislike Balibar, and all of the idiots that his horrendous "school" spawned. I fucking hate Jürgen Habermas, Erich Fromm, Theodor Adorno, Max Horkheimer, and all of the Frankfurt school. Quite simply: -FUCK THEM-."

I'm no good with remembering names, I remember band names but most of the bands I like (there's so many of them) I can't remember the names of their members. I'm just curious of what bands you were referring to.Can you name a few of them?

NO to Finntroll.  That ship sunk before it had even set off.

For Finnish Metal, go to deathmetal.org and find the thread on "new" (or, at least, contemporary) Finnish bands.  A lot of good stuff, there.

For Finnish Metal, go to deathmetal.org and find the thread on "new" (or, at least, contemporary) Finnish bands.  A lot of good stuff, there.

Agreed.

Convulse - World Without God is very good in my opinion, and so is Depravity - Silence of the Centuries.

NO to Finntroll.  That ship sunk before it had even set off.

This is kind of what I meant by festivals end as festivals must.  Let's let the greatness and keep Fintrolls from happening. 

In my stillest hours, I still miss that ambient-dead can dance fueled era of metal wishful thinking that happened a few years ago with Summoning and Graveland.  That was when I thought this place was going in the right direction musically.  I cringe at some of the bad things I said about Graveland, who never let quality go, even if he wasn't going out of his way to be more extreme than the last guy or whatever.  I regret that very much.