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Bad Students, Not Bad Schools

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 11, 2010, 08:27:08 PM
Regarding:

"Hey maybe public education has brainwashed me but literacy can't be a bad thing."

Some, like Savitri Devi, argue that universal literacy can indeed be a bad thing:

It is easier to brainwash people when they can all read as they are more susceptible to subtle forms of propaganda. The inherent power in language alone is often overlooked.

Additionally, Why the supposed link between literacy and education? Being able to read and being able to read with care, discrimination, insight and wisdom are two different things of which the latter is usually something that can not be taught, although it can be groomed in those who show a propensity for such skill.
 
Can it be bad to educate everyone? Perhaps...... If by doing so the dumb (but clever) can pretend to be WISE or knowledgeable.....


Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 11, 2010, 08:50:28 PM
Quote
Bad Students, Not Bad Schools is an Emperor’s new clothes book—it openly speaks the unspeakable: America’s education woes are caused by intellectually mediocre, unmotivated students, not “bad schools,” rotten teachers, faculty curriculum, lack of sufficient funding and similar alleged culprits. Alter the student population and push students harder, even if this means lowering their self-esteem and America’s schools will thrive. If mischief-makers refuse to learn, let them drop out! Politicians and professional educators avoid this awkward reality and prefer instead to squander billions while lurching from one guaranteed-to-fail gimmick after the next.

http://badstudentsnotbadschools.com/

All of us were or are students at some point. We all have been or met the rotten apples and we know these ruin all the apples in the barrel to some extent.

I agree, but only somewhat.  As a current student, I can safely say that the idiots and apathetic slobs make everyone's job more difficult.  Poor teaching IS an issue though.  Many of them are intellectually challenged and/or suffer from the very same apathy that the jerkoffs who stagnate collective learning display.  I agree that US schools are funded enough already, and money is constantly being wasted.  It is unacceptable.  Poor students are not the only ones to blame, and the government doesn't seem to give a shit.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 11, 2010, 09:00:42 PM
I never saw how sitting people in a classroom and talking at them for an hour was effective in the education process. It wasn't for me, and I often found myself distracted by other things on my mind for the majority of the school day.

If you ask me, teaching yourself material is far more effective. Not only do you learn at your own speed, but you don't have the stress of being adequately prepared for the next test.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 11, 2010, 09:19:27 PM
I never saw how sitting people in a classroom and talking at them for an hour was effective in the education process. It wasn't for me, and I often found myself distracted by other things on my mind for the majority of the school day.

If you ask me, teaching yourself material is far more effective. Not only do you learn at your own speed, but you don't have the stress of being adequately prepared for the next test.

It works for me, but I know people who are in a dire need of being taught.  That's centralized education's biggest issue: how do you address all students equally under a linear, heavily bureaucratic  system?  The issue is the goal itself in my opinion.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 11, 2010, 09:24:02 PM
A few ideas I've had.

Have half grades/half semester grade changes. If a student has achieved the set requirements for a school year by halfway through, they move up a whole grade instead of a half grade. For example, suppose the 7th grade syllabus requirements are A and B, and 8th grade is C and D, then grade 7.5 is B and C. (this particular alternative has the advantage that the syllabi won't need to really change, which should make it a relatively simple change to make)

Normal student: A+B -> B+C -> C+D (time = 1.5 years)

Advanced student: A+B -> C+D (time = 1 year)

Smart kids will go to selective schools, where the average student there might finish high school level education at about 15, at which point the students learn at a university level until they're 18, and can then progress to university education at the honours or masters level if they so choose, or at least have a significant amount of credit towards a bachelor's degree.

There will also be classes based on age, so that age-based grades can be kept allowing for a more normal social development (based on the argument that kids who skip grades have a harder time socially because of it)

For the normal students, practical skills are to be taught moreso than academic ones (skills relevant for the trades). Apart from the very basic skills (3 R's in primary school), and maybe some broad headings like "cultural education", "exposure to scientific knowledge" there won't be a compulsory syllabus, though there will be recommended ones. The schools can ultimately decide for themselves. Schools will generally specialise in practical, academic, or creative pursuits, with children attending institutions accordingly.

Main idea here: having a single path of education for all students, regardless of ability is ridiculous. Provide alternatives so that students can more easily progress at a suitable pace, and specialise based on their natural strengths and inclinations.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 12, 2010, 06:14:48 AM
I think the educational system is just plain fucked up all around.  Bad students are a serious problem, but that doesn't change the fact that there are terrible teachers everywhere, and bloated school bureaucracies that create inefficient and stupid structuring of schools.  Not to mention the problem of teachers' unions and excessive political oversight.  The whole thing is a mess.  Though I have been saying for years that they should simply decriminalize truancy.  If the kid doesn't want to go to school, let him fuck off and do whatever.  If he ends up successful, good for him.  If he ends up a failure, then it's a good thing he wasn't in the class fucking things up for everyone else.

chv

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 13, 2010, 12:24:08 AM
What we need to teach our children is one static principle, and that is: it is up to them to make something positive of themselves, and no moral filter will change that. No matter what they want to believe about the universe. From this principle a sense of identity, purpose, and discipline is born.

You cannot teach anyone if you allow them to believe in things that contradict the lesson.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 13, 2010, 12:32:41 PM
There is another issue, though, which follows from the Cardinal Principle.

Its called Line.

Yeah, but maybe it wouldn't be so bad.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 14, 2010, 09:04:31 AM
Brunhilde: nobody cares.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 14, 2010, 09:36:43 AM
Brunhilde: nobody cares.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 15, 2010, 07:11:08 PM
I wasted three years of my school life because I had no direction. I wish somebody had told me the point of university: to become a rich fucker.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 15, 2010, 08:41:02 PM
I wasted three years of my school life because I had no direction. I wish somebody had told me the point of university: to become a rich fucker.

Well all you can do is work from there.  Unfortunately the apathy in these shit schools is always lurking.  Politicians and those in charge are too ignorant or inactive to address the issues causing the apathy. 

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 15, 2010, 11:49:10 PM
Bad breeding and demography neglect results in a Third World USA unable to solve any of the problems:

Quote
A 60-page review of the scientific evidence, some based on state-of-the-art magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) of brain size, has concluded that race differences in average IQ are largely genetic.

http://www.news-medical.net/news/2005/04/26/9530.aspx

that it is unaware it has foisted upon itself::

Quote
For those who fear the “browning” of America or the loss of some Anglo-Saxon “cultural” identity, all I can say is, sorry. Between now and 2050, the vast majority of population growth will come from racial minorities. By 2050, the America that many on the right are so nostalgic about will be a thing of the past.

The truth is that the changes taking place are not something to fear. They only will make America stronger.

http://www.dailyiowan.com/2010/04/12/Opinions/16657.html

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 16, 2010, 01:24:04 AM
I wasted three years of my school life because I had no direction. I wish somebody had told me the point of university: to become a rich fucker.

Well all you can do is work from there.  Unfortunately the apathy in these shit schools is always lurking.  Politicians and those in charge are too ignorant or inactive to address the issues causing the apathy. 

Oh yes, most certainly. I'm studying at the moment and next year I will be in university.

Re: Bad Students, Not Bad Schools
October 16, 2010, 04:48:15 PM
What of the fact that years of teaching apathetic, uninterested students makes for apathetic teachers?

Most of my teachers in high school were wrecks.  That is, they had been ruined by the reality they could not bear; namely that their students did not care, and did not have the capacity to care.