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Satanism and metal

Satanism and metal
May 25, 2006, 02:18:01 AM
There have been many threads on the subject resently and i have seen that many disaprove of satanism as he was a christian creation. Many say that in metal it is used as a metaphor, but it is not clear to me how this is done. Any one have any thoughts on this.

Re: Satanism and metal
May 25, 2006, 03:55:44 AM
I'm not especially much into Satanism (so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong, anyone), but as I see it, Christianity is a much older religion than Satanism, which I actually think officially originated from Christianity (probably because some (obscure?) people, opposing themselves to Christianity). Christianity presents to us, two alignments - good and evil. God being the good, and Satan being the evil (of course), and this probably seemed logical back then in those ancient and primitve times. The people, who were not like God , became Satanists (as they, obviously, were evil), and this is how it all started, I think. It, of course, evolved since then.
Because black metal is quite much based on ancient romanticism, I think Satanism (for most black metallers) is the metaphor for "evilness".
This rant is totally based on my own idea and theories on the subject, and it's probably incorrect, as I haven't researched it, or anything - this is what I found most logical. So any agreements/disagreements?

Re: Satanism and metal
May 25, 2006, 05:46:57 AM
That sounds perfectly logical to me, but i'm no expert on the subject myself.

Re: Satanism and metal
May 25, 2006, 06:05:47 AM
"Tis better to reign in Hell than serve in Heav'n." - Milton, Paradise Lost

Nile577

Re: Satanism and metal
May 28, 2006, 08:45:47 PM
Message 1

>From : <Suffolk.libraries.direct@libher.suffolkcc.gov.uk>
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>To : nile577@hotmail.com
>Subject : Library Overdue Notice
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> | | | Inbox
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>e-mail enquiries : Suffolk.libraries.direct@libher.suffolkcc.gov.uk
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>Borrower card number : *****************
>Mr ***************
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>You currently have three titles on loan which are now listed as severely >overdue.Despite several earlier reminders we note that you have not >returned these titles or
> renewed the loans. Please do so or contact us within 14 days otherwise >your
>library card may be suspended and we will issue a bill to cover the costs >of
>replacing the titles. In addition, since this is the third incidence of such
>fines being accumulated, we will require a written explanation as to why
>these titles have not been returned on time.
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Message 2:

>From: "Nile577" <nile577@hotmail.com>
>To: Suffolk.libraries.direct@libher.suffolkcc.gov.uk
>Subject: RE: Library Overdue Notice
>Sent: 16 February 2006 23:15:34
>
>
>I honestly did mean to return these books but, alas, the intention >became imbricated into the quotidian with bouts of lost luggage, Death >Metal, Satanism and carillon until, struggling, like a drowning man, it >gasped a final time for air before being shot, by a passing Maldoror, and eaten >by a shark. Alas, poor, fleeting intention that it was, I knew him well.


Message 3

>From : <Suffolk.libraries.direct@libher.suffolkcc.gov.uk>
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>Borrower card number : *****************
>Mr ***************
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>Mr *********, I am unable to accept your excuse and ask that since >these books have been on hold for another user for THREE WEEKS you >return them as SOON as possible. Your library card has been suspended >and your borrowing privileges revoked. Please return these books before
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>Outstanding fine: £81.83
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>DUEDATE: 29/11/05

:(

The experience grieves me still.

Re: Satanism and metal
May 28, 2006, 09:07:14 PM
satn is God's creation..but he was so fucking stoopid tat God sent him to HELL!!!!lol :D

Re: Satanism and metal
May 30, 2006, 07:28:49 AM
I'm not a metalhead, but I'm a writer, and I have some ideas on how Satan can be used as metaphor. In the etymological sense, the word Satan means "adversary," and using that definition, Satan could be symbolic of a universal enemy - for instance, death, mortality. So to embrace Satan would reflect central themes in death metal (as I understand it from the History of Heavy Metal page on the main site). Looking through the forum, I see that Ragnarok made a good case for this on page two of the "Satanic Imagery or Satanic Beliefs?" thread.
Another sense of Satan is Satan as Accuser, also taken from the word's etymological roots and some Biblical references. Satan is repeatedly portrayed as accusing mankind before God. In the book of Job, for instance, Satan says that Job only fears God because God has given him everything he could ever want, in a material sense. This version of Satan could symbolize a condemnation or accusation of the decadence and shallowness of modern society.
Just a thought.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Satanism and metal
May 30, 2006, 08:15:34 AM
Satan opposes gOD, in spite of the fact that gOD seemingly can never be defeated. gOD cannot be destroyed, still Satan resists.  No wonder metal bands took Satan as their icon, in this day and age, with a religion, oligarchy and media that also seemed indestructable from the perspective these musicians must have had.

Re: Satanism and metal
May 30, 2006, 09:11:53 AM
Quote
Satan opposes gOD, in spite of the fact that gOD seemingly can never be defeated. gOD cannot be destroyed, still Satan resists.  No wonder metal bands took Satan as their icon, in this day and age, with a religion, oligarchy and media that also seemed indestructable from the perspective these musicians must have had.


^ I really, really like this interpretation. How perceptive! ^_^

Re: Satanism and metal
May 30, 2006, 10:25:31 AM
Quote
May I point out that the vision and use of whatever term or reference in whatever context is not as much defined by the original or true meaning of that term or reference, if any, but rather by the language that both protagonists understand and communicate with.


It might happen.  ;D
In such case both protagonists are wrong. But I think that the base for sharing personal opinions about something requires a common interest concerning the real existence of the topic they are speaking about...
Unless they are heading towards another goal or/and are drunk.

***

unenlightened?
June 01, 2006, 12:30:09 AM
know this:
Satan is more a mascot of sorts to Satanism, not a being or deity.
LaVeyan Satanism and the close relations to it seem to be the only that make sense and the only that dont depend on the existance of a god nor the existance of Satan.
This form of Satanism is actually just the basics of what existed before Christianity, and before any religion really. Its is just re-teaching people how to be impulsive yet intelligent again and supportive of natural selection.
Its reasoning for being called satanism is because of its clear opposition to christianity and embodying the romantic views of satan that it does. Christianity was infact created as opposition to Satanism (though it obviously wasn't called that back then) and taught a masochistic abstinence instead of the liberating indulgence of "Satan".
Satanism is a very naturalistic view on the world, holding many of the same beleifs as anus Nihilism. So before you make assumptions, research.

Re: unenlightened?
June 01, 2006, 01:35:20 AM
Quote
LaVeyan Satanism and the close relations to it seem to be the only that make sense and the only that dont depend on the existance of a god nor the existance of Satan.


Quote
Its reasoning for being called satanism is because of its clear opposition to christianity and embodying the romantic views of satan that it does. Christianity was infact created as opposition to Satanism (though it obviously wasn't called that back then) and taught a masochistic abstinence instead of the liberating indulgence of "Satan".
Satanism is a very naturalistic view on the world, holding many of the same beleifs as anus Nihilism. So before you make assumptions, research.


I would say that you know the tree by its fruits.
There is a very interesting article about the La Vey family here :
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/zeenaphile/

> In the mid 1980’s Diane and Anton had a bitter divorce. Anton La Vey was sued blind by an embittered wife (Diane Hegarty). She got sick the bitter coots abuses and sued for divorce driving the Church of Satan into bankruptcy.

> [His daughter's] "The Satanic Witch" is nothing but a simple–minded text book on “how to be a whore.”   Zeena also stated that Anton routinely beat and abused those of his female disciples with whom he had sex, forcing them into prostitution as part of his ‘Satanic Counselling’ and collecting there earnings.

> On 29 October 1997 Anton Szandor La Vey (born Howard Stanton Levey) founder and High Priest of the Church of Satan dies. Zeena now thirty three years old publicly stated she was glad he was dead. She stated she had proven herself to be the most competent satanic witch since her father dies because she cursed him seven years earlier to a painful death.

> On 02 February 1998 she and Nikolas wrote; Anton La Vey: Legend and Reality. Far from a loving tribute, it outlines all the lies and deceptions that caused her to hate her father with a blistering passion.

Very romantic indeed.
But maybe this is only christian propaganda, I don't know....

Re: Satanism and metal
June 01, 2006, 07:47:14 AM
You know, the problem with this is when metal gets to stupid people.  I've known local metalheads who actually do satanic rituals because they think that's part of being a fan of black metal.

Re: Satanism and metal
June 02, 2006, 12:54:59 AM
Admittedly, the church of satan and the whole rituals part of the of the 'Satanic Bible' are useless,  they seem to be only for show and to gain notoriety. I cannot speak for the rest of the books as i do not wish to read them because from what i have seen they are to, useless.
As for the personal lives of the lavey family i do not care.
The Satanic bible states a certain natural perspective on things that neither Anton nor his family created, Anton merely made the connection between this force and Satan (as it is what Christianity opposes).


Nile577

Re: Satanism and metal
June 04, 2006, 09:22:11 PM
Here is a pseudy piece about LaVeyan Satanism I have constructed this dark, eldritch, prank-pizza-delivery-orchestrating evening. It had been influenced by the ideas of many writers/posters.

Quote from The Satanic Bible:

"The Eastern philosophies preach the dissolution of man's ego before he can produce sins. It is unfathomable to the Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully choose denial of itself.

Abstract:

Ego-gratification is worthless if no account of context is taken.

Argument:

“It is unfathomable to the Satanist to conceive of an ego which would willfully choose denial of itself.” - Anton LaVey

In philosophy, the path of self denial is referred to as ‘asceticism.’

I have respect for the ascetic path, in which one forsakes short-term, sensory gratification in favor of long-term mental goals and achievements. However, my respect turns to scorn where this path is moralized, as in the Christian religion, where not only is asceticism represented by meekness, passivity and resigned fatalism but comes with a concomitant moralized attack on pre-Christian ‘virtues,’ such as strength, might, achievement and action.

Influenced by a post on another forum, I believe there are two kinds of love. 1 – Love of self, object or person. 2 – Love of life’s conditions and context as a worldly and universal process. In my view, those philosophies which attempt to wholly deny the first are broken. These would include, on the ascetic end, Christian traditionalism, Buddhism and Schopenhauerian pessimism - all of which attempt to vitiate the importance of the self, resign the will-to-power or reduce the importance of this life through specious postulations regarding an afterlife. I also believe that those philosophies that focus exclusively on the first to the abnegation of the second are equally bankrupt. Included here would be LaVeyan Satanism and any branch of the Left Hand Path that posits that the highest form of life is to be found in self ego-gratification and the accumulation of power for its own sake, regardless of context.

For me, the essential entry point to philosophy is the nihilistic recognition that life has no meaning other than what is inherent. The conditions that are inherent to life (genetics, mortality, location) offer a window of potentiality that may be colored by the individual self and through which the will to power may be expressed. It is essential, in my view, to reconcile this self to the conditions inherent to life; first to avoid solipsist utopia and secondly to avoid what might be termed surrender to the technological gestalt of the age. To elaborate on this gestalt:

Ernst Junger, a fascistic writer who served in the German army in World War I, held that war represented the supreme rationale of an age bent on the accumulation of power. This ‘accumulation’ was really transference, with man aiming to rape his environment for gain. What once were rocks became the fuel for ammunitions; what once was a river became potential for an electric dam; what once was a field became the crater-riven, scorched wasteland of war’s imperial refrain. Never in history has an epoch arisen in which man held himself so utterly in command of nature. For Junger, descended from the literary tradition of Poe, all that was to be done was narrate right from the heart of no-man’s land and revel in the flying body parts, exploding shells and chatter of machine gun fire; an aesthetic validation of a power-crazed epoch. The entire effort of a country was expressed in war, from the lowest factory munitions worker to the highest army general. As German philosopher Martin Heidegger poignantly noted, what once in National Socialism had attracted him – a promise to glorify the green and flowing volkland – now sought to rend the very same with battle, construct great forges and industry over its fields and see it as a source fuel, to be cannibalized by its own people.

This is an excellent allegory for LaVeyan Satanism and the broken irreverence of usurping the will-to-power so it simply becomes a ‘will-to-will’ - that is, a desire for power merely for its own sake, regardless of end result or context. The culmination of this thought echoes in Oppenheimer’s words of bitter sweet triumph upon his creation of the atomic bomb: ‘I am become death: the destroyer of worlds.’

I utterly refute the thought of any ideology or philosophical system that preaches such ‘will-to-will.’ It ends in broken fatalism in which man can only submit to the irrational gestalt of greed and gratification. Power is expressed not in denial of man’s universal context but in an aesthetic embracing and celebration of it, so the child does not need to break the toy to prove his mastery over it but is able to disclose new aspects of it through art and creation. This poetic thought – Heidegger himself would term the Nietzschean Superman a ‘warrior poet’ - is of a wholly more worthwhile, well-aligned and powerful nature than the LaVeyan doctrine of endless ego-gratification.

What is the locus of this ‘ego’ anyhow? If it is, to return to our opening proposition, simply the first kind of love, then I would hold such Satanism to be the desperate rattling of the cage by inmates who hold making a noise the highest gratification; a thousand genitals thrashing for transient, no-end result, returning-to-base-level content. If it is the second love, all actions gratify both the self’s ego and, at a higher level, the cosmic process of life. Power should be accumulated in accordance with a desire to use it creatively, not as a store and anesthetic against encroaching mortality (how bitter death must be in this latter case - truly the grand leveler).

How frustrating to live a life in which gratification is sensual, indulgent, vapid and enshrined! LaVeyan Satanism, for me, is equivalent to a ‘making the best of’ coping strategy for modern society, sharing its mindless, hedonistic greed or perhaps, more colorfully, an excuse to bury your head in the sand and masturbate at the shrine of sensuality while the chance for pursuit of higher ideals passes by.

Side point:

“For anyone who has every opportunity for material gain, to choose this form of religious thought seems foolish, indeed!“ - LaVey

This is nonsense and a transparently dishonest attempt to veil an endorsement of the consumerist doctrines of Capitalism in esoteric mysticism. Material gain is, in my view, of no considerable import to people of quality. What good are possessions or money as end results in themselves? Whatever gratification they give passes, no matter the width of the new television set, leaving one exactly where they were before they purchased, left to shake the head for a moment before diving straight into the next empty indulgence.