Is heavy metal 'rock'?

[death metal black metal]

The record stores in the downtown malls here have metal filed under 'rock.' For some stuff, like heavy metal, this makes sense... but Burzum and Incantation?

[Cynical]

It features a loud, distorted guitar; thus, to most people, it's rock, even if that is incorrect.

Record stores cater to "the norm", not to those who are "in the know".

...What the fuck mall record store in Houston has Burzum?  I lived there for 17 years, and never saw anything more obscure than "Under the Sign of the Black Mark".

[Endymion]

Virgin Records here (UK) have Nirvana and anything heavier in the metal section.

I always understood the difference to be a lack of 'groove' on the metal side and/or a slightly more complex thematic edge which puts Iron Maiden and GNR in the right categories, even though GNR were probably heavier.

I suppose that fails for Kyuss though, it seems cross-pollenation is eroding the distinction to merely one of heaviness.

[Big Cock Beelzebub]

Burzum = not rock
all Metallica = rock

[MetalMilitia]

Metal derived from rock and can be viewed as a sub genre of it.But at the point with Black Metal the inheritance or link, is allready lost.

[Endymion]

What about Slayer?

[I disagree]

The record stores in the downtown malls here have metal filed under 'rock.' For some stuff, like heavy metal, this makes sense... but Burzum and Incantation?

Well the object is for the consumer to find what they are looking for quickly, chuck your $17.50 or whatever it costs for a cd nowadays (I refuse to buy any cd that I have not downloaded first). For the sake of just finding the cd, It's easier for these stores suchas your Best Buy, or Sam Goody to put Burzum and Incantation under, "rock". Why you would go to those stores to find those cd's in the first place is a mystery in the first place. I would however expect more out of a specialty distro. But remember the object of the store is to make money. If the distro got so specific, that you had to go to two different sections to get Hlidskjalf and Det Som Engang Var. Do distros need to be so specific in order to not discredit any genres? The object is to sell cds for most of these distros. Finally, you have to think of your audience. Is the average consumer going to look for Ildjarn under black metal or ambient? If they can't find it because they aren't savvy enough to correctly identify the genre that store may have just lost a sale. So to put any band that uses distored guitars under "rock" is not necessarily out of ignorance, it's out of convenience and to make a sale.

[MetalMilitia]

Well the object is for the consumer to find what they are looking for quickly, chuck your $17.50 or whatever it costs for a cd nowadays (I refuse to buy any cd that I have not downloaded first). For the sake of just finding the cd, It's easier for these stores suchas your Best Buy, or Sam Goody to put Burzum and Incantation under, "rock". Why you would go to those stores to find those cd's in the first place is a mystery in the first place. I would however expect more out of a specialty distro. But remember the object of the store is to make money. If the distro got so specific, that you had to go to two different sections to get Hlidskjalf and Det Som Engang Var. Do distros need to be so specific in order to not discredit any genres? The object is to sell cds for most of these distros. Finally, you have to think of your audience. Is the average consumer going to look for Ildjarn under black metal or ambient? If they can't find it because they aren't savvy enough to correctly identify the genre that store may have just lost a sale. So to put any band that uses distored guitars under "rock" is not necessarily out of ignorance, it's out of convenience and to make a sale.

Exactly, that's how the music industry works.

[I disagree]

Exactly, that's how the music industry works.

The question arised whether music such as Burzum and Incantation should share the same shelf space as with "rock bands". For your average music store, I say yes because dividing music into each of the dozens and dozens of genres and sub-genres, is not beneficial. Perhaps I was not getting getting back to the point when I posted. You get it now?

[worldsshell]

Sidenote: speaking of Incantation, "The Infernal Storm" is utterly brilliant, it's a shame that it seems to be so overlooked...

[Cynical]

Sidenote: speaking of Incantation, "The Infernal Storm" is utterly brilliant, it's a shame that it seems to be so overlooked...

Eh, I gave up hope on them after the album that came after "Diabolical Conquest".

"Onward to Golgotha" and "Diabolical Conquest" are fucking awesome, though.

[worldsshell]

Yeah, those two are great as well. Infernal Storm is a lot different, but nonetheless amazing imo. Probably their most atmospheric... very brooding and evil....

I haven't been impressed with the rest of their output afterwards, but this album really surprised the fuck out of me. I highly recommend giving it at least a good three or four spins before judgement.

[worldsshell]

And it is not the type of album where one can gain instant gratification... it is the type that should be meditated upon; lyrics sheet in one hand, and whisky bottle in the other...

[MetalMilitia]

The question arised whether music such as Burzum and Incantation should share the same shelf space as with "rock bands". For your average music store, I say yes because dividing music into each of the dozens and dozens of genres and sub-genres, is not beneficial. Perhaps I was not getting getting back to the point when I posted. You get it now?

The question was not about specialized metal stores I think.But in most metal stores they will probably be on the different shelves, although there is a chance of both getting into "extreme metal" section.

[Imperial_Doom]

Eh, I gave up hope on them after the album that came after "Diabolical Conquest".

If I'm not mistaken, that album IS Infernal Storm