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Is heavy metal 'rock'?

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
December 06, 2004, 07:02:20 PM
And I don't really see why we are concerned with what record stores file bands under. Most of them are decided by corporate guys that wear suits and ties and don't know the first thing about music anyway, other than how to sell it.

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
December 24, 2004, 04:27:59 PM
there is a record stiore that i frequent and they pretty much file the records into rock, rockabilly/psychobilly, pop, electronica, punk/hardcore, and metal. in the metal secton they pretty much have anything that falls relatively under the genre name ranging from napalm death to metallica (i think they are in the rock  section too) to darkthrone.

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
January 20, 2005, 05:23:36 AM
no i dont believe metal is rock. it advanced far and beyond the constraints of rock. evolutionary descendant of rock music - yes, but does that make it rock music?

Death


Annihilaytorr

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
January 29, 2005, 06:20:51 PM
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The record stores in the downtown malls here have metal filed under 'rock.' For some stuff, like heavy metal, this makes sense... but Burzum and Incantation?




That depends on what the fuck an ambiguous term like "rock" means. The term is used so loosely that Fatts Domino, Elvis, Pantera, The Beatles, Micheal Jackson, The Cars, Nirvana, Iron Maiden, Limp Bizkit and Metallica are all represented as such by the media.

We need to know what "rock" is before we can say what is, and what is not rock...

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
January 29, 2005, 07:53:31 PM
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That depends on what the fuck an ambiguous term like "rock" means. The term is used so loosely that Fatts Domino, Elvis, Pantera, The Beatles, Micheal Jackson, The Cars, Nirvana, Iron Maiden, Limp Bizkit and Metallica are all represented as such by the media.

We need to know what "rock" is before we can say what is, and what is not rock...


Those all easily fit under the same genre in terms of theory.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
January 29, 2005, 08:38:41 PM
In that case, toss Tim McGraw in there as well.

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
January 30, 2005, 01:42:01 AM
Metal is subgenre of rock, want it or not.

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
January 30, 2005, 10:20:42 AM
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In that case, toss Tim McGraw in there as well.

I would completely agree there.

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
August 05, 2005, 02:57:35 PM
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The record stores in the downtown malls here have metal filed under 'rock.'


No rock has a totally different mindset. You only write a few riffs for each song and they don't flow together like metal riffs, there aren't as many breaks, it's all verse-chorus and the rhythms are much easier.


Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
September 23, 2006, 04:05:19 AM
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The record stores in the downtown malls here have metal filed under 'rock.'


That's too bad. Rock music is moronic bourgeois entertainment. Metal has the potential to be art, at least the stuff that isn't Guns and Roses or Behemoth.

Iconoclast_2

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
September 23, 2006, 12:14:40 PM
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That's too bad. Rock music is moronic bourgeois entertainment. Metal has the potential to be art, at least the stuff that isn't Guns and Roses or Behemoth.


>:(

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
September 25, 2006, 01:01:47 AM
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No rock has a totally different mindset. You only write a few riffs for each song and they don't flow together like metal riffs, there aren't as many breaks, it's all verse-chorus and the rhythms are much easier.



thats only half true, it may be true for most modern popular bands among teenagers but you have to remember rock is a massive genre (much bigger then metal) and so its hard to talk about it in general, after all progressive rock bands like king crimson dont follow the verse chorus structure, as do almost every other progressive band. All heavy metal bands (iron maiden, judas priest) is exactly the same as other rock at the time, not a single difference. All progressive metal is almost exactly the same progressive rock bar one sometimes growls and blast beat is sometimes used. Speed metal is close enough to heavy metal for it to be called a subgenre of rock. Doom metal is also almost exactly the same as rock (thats heavy metal influenced doom metal not the death influenced branch). Death metal is in essence rock music but takes on to many romantic music ideas to be called rock, more like a neo classical rock genre.
black metal tries to be ambient but since most people in the genre cant read or write music end up making peices that musically dont make sense but take the basic mechanics of proggressive rock music except just complety fludded with romantic music

i see all metal (musically) to be and offshoot of rock, i think the only thing that seperates it from rock is its beliefs and goals

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
September 25, 2006, 02:22:18 AM
The only Metal band to successfully strip all Rock from its music is Summoning.

Re: Is heavy metal 'rock'?
September 25, 2006, 08:23:50 AM
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thats only half true, it may be true for most modern popular bands among teenagers but you have to remember rock is a massive genre (much bigger then metal) and so its hard to talk about it in general, after all progressive rock bands like king crimson dont follow the verse chorus structure, as do almost every other progressive band. All heavy metal bands (iron maiden, judas priest) is exactly the same as other rock at the time, not a single difference. All progressive metal is almost exactly the same progressive rock bar one sometimes growls and blast beat is sometimes used. Speed metal is close enough to heavy metal for it to be called a subgenre of rock. Doom metal is also almost exactly the same as rock (thats heavy metal influenced doom metal not the death influenced branch). Death metal is in essence rock music but takes on to many romantic music ideas to be called rock, more like a neo classical rock genre.
black metal tries to be ambient but since most people in the genre cant read or write music end up making peices that musically dont make sense but take the basic mechanics of proggressive rock music except just complety fludded with romantic music

i see all metal (musically) to be and offshoot of rock, i think the only thing that seperates it from rock is its beliefs and goals


I don't think you're taking into account the full range of what 'structure' implies.

At the simplest mechanical level, the parts of all rock music and much metal are fitted together in verse/chorus format.  So are a lot of classical lieder.  There are other internal relationships that distinguish between rock and metal, and you're overlooking these.

In rock music, the basic structural element is the beat.  A series of patterns in the percussion define the outline of verse and chorus, and accompaniment harmonizes within the space created by the percussion.  The melodic element is secondary and essentially improvisational: generally, it takes the form of a lead vocal or guitar that is inserted into the harmonic and, ultimately, rhythmic framework of accompaniment and percussion.

Metal (even verse/chorus metal) follows the classical format in that it unites structure, rhythm and melody in a single element: in this case the guitar.  The basic melodies and structure of the song are mapped out by the "rhythm" guitar (a misnomer in a sense, since rhythm guitar in metal is a lead instrument), with percussion either reinforcing the basic rhythmic pattern of the guitar line, forming a rhythmic counterpoint, or acting as essentially undifferentiated ambient accompaniment.  Vocals either take the form of melodic counterpoint (heavy metal) or become in essence another percussion instrument (death and black metal), and lead guitar either harmonizes or is used counterpuntally.

There are also the obvious harmonic differences (which probably should be seen as 'structural' differences).  Almost all rock music makes use of some variation of a 12 bar blues formula while most metal uses chromatic or diatonic movement almost exclusively.