Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

attempted music request (with my limited music vocabulary)

Hello, and thanks in advance for any suggestions. I'm going to explain myself as best as I can, but keep in mind I don't know music theory or technical terms. Also I haven't had enough free time in order to sift through all the classical music out there, so right now I have no examples about what I like (so feel free to suggest 'obvious' choices). There's surely lots of classical music I already like, but what I'm asking for here is a particular variety of classical music that I've only happened to hear a few times on the radio without opportunity to jot down what was playing.

What I'm searching for is what I would loosely term 'avant-garde'. Almost every single note relates to the preceding and proceeding note in very dynamic fashion, which is to say it makes what to the unsophisticated ear might be perceived as an unexpected turn. As a result, for example, hearing a stretch of melody doesn't make it easy to predict how the melody will proceed next (in contrast to more defined structures that can be easily guessed).

Harmony of melody is still maintained, often subtly. It's not ignored totally like a fine art performance of someone finding household objects and hitting them in random fashion to see what quaint sounds they might make.

In my experience with this dynamic style of music, because the music isn't exactly 'easy' to listen to, that damned sentiment of naive happiness prevalent throughout so much of classical music which encourages 'fluffy' or 'blissfully ignorant' listening is rarely represented in this dynamic style.

The emotions invoked by the music aren't negative, although surely many would perceive them that way (much like it is in metal). Some pieces are obviously happy in nature however, and this is just fine as long as the happiness isn't a superficial one.

Dissonance is highly permitted.

What's important to me isn't the dynamic relationship between notes as much as the quality of emotion that's invoked in corollary (something I don't think I could put into words summarily here and do it justice), although if I can get both the complexity and the emotion in a single piece then all the better.

I fear the chances of my finding any music in this thread that I like to be slim, however I'm hopeful! Once I have a couple of examples though, then it will be easier to find more as I can point to those and ask for more of the same...

Individual song recommendations are preferred over album recommendations, so that I can download the specific song and then if I like it I can get the whole album.

Thanks in advance, it's much appreciated.

Hello, and thanks in advance for any suggestions. I'm going to explain myself as best as I can, but keep in mind I don't know music theory or technical terms. Also I haven't had enough free time in order to sift through all the classical music out there, so right now I have no examples about what I like (so feel free to suggest 'obvious' choices). There's surely lots of classical music I already like, but what I'm asking for here is a particular variety of classical music that I've only happened to hear a few times on the radio without opportunity to jot down what was playing.

What I'm searching for is what I would loosely term 'avant-garde'. Almost every single note relates to the preceding and proceeding note in very dynamic fashion, which is to say it makes what to the unsophisticated ear might be perceived as an unexpected turn. As a result, for example, hearing a stretch of melody doesn't make it easy to predict how the melody will proceed next (in contrast to more defined structures that can be easily guessed).

Harmony of melody is still maintained, often subtly. It's not ignored totally like a fine art performance of someone finding household objects and hitting them in random fashion to see what quaint sounds they might make.

In my experience with this dynamic style of music, because the music isn't exactly 'easy' to listen to, that damned sentiment of naive happiness prevalent throughout so much of classical music which encourages 'fluffy' or 'blissfully ignorant' listening is rarely represented in this dynamic style.

The emotions invoked by the music aren't negative, although surely many would perceive them that way (much like it is in metal). Some pieces are obviously happy in nature however, and this is just fine as long as the happiness isn't a superficial one.

Dissonance is highly permitted.

What's important to me isn't the dynamic relationship between notes as much as the quality of emotion that's invoked in corollary (something I don't think I could put into words summarily here and do it justice), although if I can get both the complexity and the emotion in a single piece then all the better.

I fear the chances of my finding any music in this thread that I like to be slim, however I'm hopeful! Once I have a couple of examples though, then it will be easier to find more as I can point to those and ask for more of the same...

Individual song recommendations are preferred over album recommendations, so that I can download the specific song and then if I like it I can get the whole album.

Thanks in advance, it's much appreciated.
Try Liturgie de cristal or Danse de la fureur, pour les sept trompettes by Olivier Messiaen.

Try Liturgie de cristal or Danse de la fureur, pour les sept trompettes by Olivier Messiaen.

I thank you for your recommendation. In this case though it's far too disjointed. The music seeks to invoke an extremely unusual or odd feeling, but this isn't what I'm looking for. I don't want something that's trying to push the borders of imagination into a totally alien soniscape. The music I'm looking for isn't creating altogether new emotional and conceptual avenues. Hmmmm, this is very difficult to describe! *grumbles* Perhaps I will have to think about this a long time to try and word it better. I grasp the music you recommended, it's not that. Also the music I'm looking for would surely appear to be a totally alien soniscape for the average listener--it's just me who doesn't perceive it that way (which connects to my overall philosophy, paradigm, experiences, etc--so my descriptions here is rendered a bit subjective...

Your recommendation is a lot like what I end up finding when I search through classical music for what I'm looking for - I end up finding things that seem more like (over-)intellectual exercises into the unknown, as if to prod the borders of sanity so that when the composer sips tea in the morning he can feel secure about the borders of his own sanity because he's identified what is the unknown. The result is always these alien landscapes sounding so external in nature, as opposed to the sound of one confront the Abyss themselves and going through it with passion and nobility and actually having success at it; many can make music of falling off the razor's edge but few can make music of remaining subtly and masterfully balanced on it, because to make that music you'd have to be able to live that way. The music is of a warrior that's so passionate in life not because they have everything to gain because they have nothing to lose (anything is better than nothing) but because they have nothing to lose because they have everything to gain (purposive abandonment so the vessel may be filled to the brim); at the tip of the mountain where the thunder clouds happen the vastness and emptiness is not a threat, and living at the edge of sanity is the best place to live so you don't fall over into insanity (it's not a linear spectrum where past a certain degree sanity suddenly converts to insanity, rather insanity lies in ignorance at the middle where there's so little inertia).

Try Liturgie de cristal or Danse de la fureur, pour les sept trompettes by Olivier Messiaen.

I thank you for your recommendation. In this case though it's far too disjointed. The music seeks to invoke an extremely unusual or odd feeling, but this isn't what I'm looking for. I don't want something that's trying to push the borders of imagination into a totally alien soniscape. The music I'm looking for isn't creating altogether new emotional and conceptual avenues. Hmmmm, this is very difficult to describe! *grumbles* Perhaps I will have to think about this a long time to try and word it better. I grasp the music you recommended, it's not that. Also the music I'm looking for would surely appear to be a totally alien soniscape for the average listener--it's just me who doesn't perceive it that way (which connects to my overall philosophy, paradigm, experiences, etc--so my descriptions here is rendered a bit subjective...

Your recommendation is a lot like what I end up finding when I search through classical music for what I'm looking for - I end up finding things that seem more like (over-)intellectual exercises into the unknown, as if to prod the borders of sanity so that when the composer sips tea in the morning he can feel secure about the borders of his own sanity because he's identified what is the unknown. The result is always these alien landscapes sounding so external in nature, as opposed to the sound of one confront the Abyss themselves and going through it with passion and nobility and actually having success at it; many can make music of falling off the razor's edge but few can make music of remaining subtly and masterfully balanced on it, because to make that music you'd have to be able to live that way. The music is of a warrior that's so passionate in life not because they have everything to gain because they have nothing to lose (anything is better than nothing) but because they have nothing to lose because they have everything to gain (purposive abandonment so the vessel may be filled to the brim); at the tip of the mountain where the thunder clouds happen the vastness and emptiness is not a threat, and living at the edge of sanity is the best place to live so you don't fall over into insanity (it's not a linear spectrum where past a certain degree sanity suddenly converts to insanity, rather insanity lies in ignorance at the middle where there's so little inertia).
What is "alien" or "overintellectual" about those pieces? Messiaen's synaesthesia, as well as his interest in bird calls, ancient Greek tonalities, Oriental rhythms, and his mythical variant of Catholicism were the greatest influences upon his compositional style, not the prevailing theories of the day, if that's what you're implying. I also have synaesthesia, and his works make perfect sense to me; perhaps you merely lack the neurological hard-wiring required to process his music.

Don't write him off just yet; the sublimity that you search for can be accessed by listening to his music. And if you still don't enjoy it, at least you'll be able to more clearly define your tastes. 



   

This just in: mental disorders are a prerequisite to enjoyment of modern classical.

Paul Creston?

MP3 files here.

NB. If this it the kind of music you are looking for, keywords are "neoclassical" & "impressionistic". Debussy, Leifs, Ravel, Respighi, and Tveitt might be worth looking into.

Some individual movements:
Creston - Fantasy for Piano and Orchestra
Debussy - La Mer
Leifs - Sögusinfónía
Ravel - Rhapsodie espagnole
Respighi - Church Windows
Tveitt - Prillar

This just in: mental disorders are a prerequisite to enjoyment of modern classical.
Synaesthesia isn't a disorder in the sense that schizophrenia or OCD are. It's actually a boon for the creative process, as evidenced by the cases of Richard D. James(tone-color synaesthesia) and Richard Feynman(number-color synaesthesia), along with many others.

I suppose my remarks were a bit uncouth. Synaesthesia isn't essential to grasping Messiaen's style, but it helps a great deal. His scores were frequently annotated with descriptions of what colors the conductor should try to evoke, and whenever he discussed his favorite composers(Debussy, Mozart, Chopin, Wagner), he would always note how colorful their music was.

Messiaen's works are the least pretentious and most profound modern classical music that I have yet encountered, so I found Transcix's reception of it to be a bit jarring. Still, that was no excuse for my display of condescension, and I humbly apologize.   

OK I have lots to listen to and re-listen to, I'll get back to y'all when I can.

Sorry for the lateness of my reply, I was cleaning up the code for my website, there was a catastrophic mySQL failure (the word "catastrophic" really worried me but it turned out alright), etc. Thanks very much Dead_Soul and nous for all the recommendations. Unfortunately it didn't come close to hitting what I was looking for on the head. I understand where you're coming from Dead_Soul, I may not agree but I definitely respect your perspective. I'm still going to listen to all the music you both recommended a bit more, because even though it's not what I wanted from this thread, I think it's possible I could get to liking some of it. What I've come to realize over the last few days is just how much, again in my perception, Christianity has influenced classical music through the ages and still to this day - in all the emotions the music evokes, or more precisely the narrative weaved by how one emotion translates into the other in the sense of a 'natural' progression... always a sense of innate sinfulness is infused to the visceral vein of the music, with resolution always coming from this abstracted higher order of thing that sounds so much like a theme song to a fairy tale to put a little child to sleep with at night. This is a big difference I find between the 'epic' quality in metal and the 'epic' quality in classical music, and one of the reasons I love metal so much.

Anyways, if I ever do find the kind of classical music I"m looking for, I'll let y'all know! ;) I don't need any more new suggestions in this thread because I've not succeeded in stating my request clearly enough, possibly due to my over-estimating how much music is available out there that's anything similar to those mysterious songs I heard a couple times on the radio and that I enjoyed so much.