Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Diversity is genocide

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 04, 2011, 05:44:20 PM
Islam is growing. Muslims are becoming more numerous. Europeans are not having babies.


I have heard a few different arguments from the right:


1) Stop immigration and coexist with the remaining population.


2) Complete deportation


3) Total assimilation in order to weaken their religious and cultural ties so they become more "European".



Would any of these really work? Do you think the growth of Muslim populations and Islam to be an ACTUAL threat to Europe? If so, what can be done?

I think we should round them up and pummel them with tidbits.

Alternatively, I recommend:

a) Leaving them and their countries alone so they don't have as much motivation to wage terrorism

b) Progress our domestic economies as well as the global economy as a whole, which by natural consequence would involve harnessing the potential of underdeveloped nations and moving everyone above the poverty line  (the impoverished are more likely to have more children)

c) Progress technological innovation and development so humanity can benefit from greater luxury and give more time for more worthy pursuits like philosophy / spirituality / etc (informed decisions make for better decisions)

You seem to value nurture more than nature. If you look at it from a naturalist perspective those people aren't on par with us so we can't expect the same sanity from them that we possess. Do you really believe that if we leave Islamic countries alone and allow them to become even more powerful there will suddenly magically be peace on earth? Why do you expect that? It's fraudulent humanist rhetoric if you ask me.

What the world needs is more oppression! Under the right rule these countries can at least live relatively happy lives. Look at South Africa for instance. It was better off under white rule, even black South Africans know this. Similarly Russia and eastern Europe might have been (and might still be) better off under strong communist rule. Democracy isn't a magic pill that makes everything better.


Islam is growing. Muslims are becoming more numerous. Europeans are not having babies.


I have heard a few different arguments from the right:


1) Stop immigration and coexist with the remaining population.


2) Complete deportation


3) Total assimilation in order to weaken their religious and cultural ties so they become more "European".



Would any of these really work? Do you think the growth of Muslim populations and Islam to be an ACTUAL threat to Europe? If so, what can be done?

Are you trolling? It's 2011 by now. It's not exactly 2003 anymore is it? If think a post like yours might even get you laughed at on stormfront.org

Option 3) is the liberal solution, you won't find many (true) conservatives who want Islam to (dis)integrate in Europe. When a liberal-conservative like Geert Wilders says he doesn't mind the "good" muslims I have trouble believing him, after all why propose a ban on all muslim immigrants if you think the majority of them causes no problems? You might want to watch the whole interview just for information or kicks but remember that he is a populist, some of the things he says are just painfully ignorant such as "a hundred years ago we hardly had any muslims (derp)" Populism is characterized by oversimplifications like that, he's just appealing to popular sentiments and gaining votes for doing it. But because he's not left-wing suddenly it's a problem for left-wingers who themselves have had no problems with oversimplifying issues such as multiculture in their own wretched way for the past 30-40 years.

Anyway, you need to update your information. In 2004 Poland became a member of the EU and it boosted the immigration of Polacks. In 2007 Bulgaria and Romania joined the EU, again their immigration goes up because EU citizens are free to work in any country. (Source) Meanwhile immigrants from countries such as Turkey and Morocco are encountering stricter rules when entering the EU so their only option is to go to a country where it's relatively easy to get a EU passport (such as Spain which hands out general pardons on a regular basis) and from then on they can still move free within the EU. But this is usually done for uniting families, not for finding jobs because most low-income jobs are being taken by Eastern European immigrants atm.

So muslim immigration in Europe is slowly becoming a thing of the past anyway. The form of muslim extremism that exists in Europe today is like the twitching of a corpse. The only environment in which muslim extremism can exist for a long time is an extreme muslim environment. It's really that simple. And since the 9/11 attacks that's exactly what most governments have been doing: cracking down on muslim extremism, deporting fundamentalists imams, arresting suspected terrorists, trying to reshape muslim communities by whatever means possible. Fundamentalist islam was once allowed to grow strong because basically nobody cared about a bunch of Afghani tribesmen until planes started crashing into buildings. After that terrorism became more glamorized among muslims but it also became more difficult for them to commit more terrorist attacks because security went up everywhere in the "free world". And we can see the results: muslims have become more successful at killing each other than killing jews or christians. Successful terrorist attacks occur pretty much every day in the islamic world while the west gets the seasonal happy-feel-good-news that another terrorist was caught before he could act out his plans. Or it's just some failguy like the Stockholm bomber who didn't make a very professional impression did he?

Don't get me wrong though. I'm not saying that the battle is over for either side. But the way things are looking radical islam's power in Europe is becoming smaller except for in a few countries like the UK where they seem to love their token-homebred-terrorists so much that I expect them to come up with a new sitcom soon which will be like a new version of Dad's Army with muslim fundamentalists who get together on every Saturday to use their democratic right to protest against democracy.

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 04, 2011, 05:55:32 PM
On a related note:

Conversion to Islam on the Rise

Is the West growing sick of its spiritual vacuum and 'Progressive' Enlightenment values? Feminism liberated women, or rather it turned them into psuedo-males, are they realizing their mistake?

Though I am not a great fan of the tradition-less and cosmopolitan modern West, turning to a foreign religion is a product of Globalism itself. Plus, Islam is about to be 'modernized' - that means sucking the tradition out of it and turning into secular humanism like modern Christianity may as well be. I don't think this is good for anyone...


That article is only about British converts in the UK. It doesn't say anything about Europe collectively becoming tired of the effects of the enlightenment. But you're also right, fundamentalist islam as a solution to decadent liberalism in the west means we lose even more of our original identity. Desperation isn't the key to a good solution. What's the point of replacing one sandbox-religion-taken-out-of-its-original-context with another?

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 04, 2011, 06:22:04 PM
There is something else going on.

1. Abandon antedeluvian animism, adopt pagan pantheon for next 20+ millenia
2. Abandon pagan pantheon, adopt an older monotheism for ~1 millenium
3. Abandon monotheism, get Enlightnened for < 1/3 millenium
4. Recoil in horror, fragment into several belief systems as population numbers shrink
5. Declare Freedom

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 04, 2011, 07:03:37 PM
There is something else going on.

1. Abandon antedeluvian animism, adopt pagan pantheon for next 20+ millenia
2. Abandon pagan pantheon, adopt an older monotheism for ~1 millenium
3. Abandon monotheism, get Enlightnened for < 1/3 millenium
4. Recoil in horror, fragment into several belief systems as population numbers shrink
5. Declare Freedom

This could easily be attributed to the advance of technology and the spreading of wealth. They are not necessarily the effects of religion or philosophy. I think religion and philosophy is more of a product of its environment than that they actually create environments (excluding events such as massacring non-believers which is just an ancient way of politics considering religion was mostly used as a tool to get populations to support political leaders and embrace foreign symbolism)

That also explains why your lists has shorter periods each time. It's because technology has been advancing faster and faster and more people can more easily live lives of relative luxury.

Btw this is also why I believe religion has become outdated anyway (for the west). It should be replaced with a new philosophy that appeals to the ancient in man but stimulates him in a modern way so that he can keep up with the rise of technology.

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 04, 2011, 07:52:37 PM
There is a correlation between tech level increase and sophistication of belief systems. As we further remove ourselves from surviving directly off the land, we attend to spiritual and traditional matters less to instead dedicate ourselves to the material and novel more. By some accounts the most modernized are collectively dying inside. One report spoke of an existential anxiety across the West, but perhaps something similar is taking place in Japan with its shrinking population.

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 05, 2011, 04:59:02 AM
There is a correlation between tech level increase and sophistication of belief systems. As we further remove ourselves from surviving directly off the land, we attend to spiritual and traditional matters less to instead dedicate ourselves to the material and novel more. By some accounts the most modernized are collectively dying inside. One report spoke of an existential anxiety across the West, but perhaps something similar is taking place in Japan with its shrinking population.

There may also be other (relatively minute) consequences of the technological advance and spiritual decline dichotomy. As the herd retreats into an insipid and superficial existence, there are others who are able to recognize the gradual extinction of there identity and seek knowledge as a remedy to this situation. As I said, this is minuscule and is the exception to the rule. Perhaps this is a pathway or guidepost to the ‹bermensch.

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 05, 2011, 06:18:00 PM
There is a correlation between tech level increase and sophistication of belief systems. As we further remove ourselves from surviving directly off the land, we attend to spiritual and traditional matters less to instead dedicate ourselves to the material and novel more. By some accounts the most modernized are collectively dying inside. One report spoke of an existential anxiety across the West, but perhaps something similar is taking place in Japan with its shrinking population.

We've simply replaced one neurosis for another.  Don't look to the past for any grand marvel of a life: it was the same shit then as it is now, with some of the details changed around and such.  Ancient Sparta had the helots, we have the working (and middle?) class. Antiquity had kings, we have corporations... nothing changes except people figure out better ways to perpetuate more clever and abstract ways of obtaining power.

The quality of life has gone up thanks to technology, though in addition the mass human is pretty much over-socialized.  This isn't the fault of technology, but of humanity; every little ape needs some facebook profile pic or wannabe-bad ass online screen name to fraudulently construct their own self-image.  You'll find that those who truly understand and use (as oppose to misuse) technology care less about frills and more towards function.

Spirituality and tradition are garbage.  Complete trash.  The only true traditions that will ever matter are either DNA or someone finding the best way to do something and having others adopt the practice out of sheer usefulness.

Let's face it: if you lived hundreds (thousands?) of years ago you'd be bemoaning some facet of your society thinking the "old days" were better.  Hell, you'd more than likely have a legit complaint... but the "old days" are never any better or worse, as humanity essentially stays the same corrupt pig it always has been.  Somebody once posted, on these forums, some writing from ancient Egypt bemoaning the-then current generation and longing for the past.  Humanity hasn't changed all too much since the dawn of history, despite paper, the printing press, the steam engine, radio, and the vacuum tube and the transistor (excluding some time-dependent more "abstract" advances like advancements in language and the formalization of science).

Humanity is essentially self-domesticated, hence the loss of the instinctual, innate ability to survive well without some form of a social net.  That part has been lost tens of  thousands of years before someone invented the first symbolic pictogram.

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 06, 2011, 08:29:04 AM
You seem to value nurture more than nature. If you look at it from a naturalist perspective those people aren't on par with us so we can't expect the same sanity from them that we possess. Do you really believe that if we leave Islamic countries alone and allow them to become even more powerful there will suddenly magically be peace on earth? Why do you expect that? It's fraudulent humanist rhetoric if you ask me.

I should have been more clear, by "leave them alone" I meant stop giving them a hard time in terms of like invading them militarily, having a negative agenda towards them, having policies against them as 'economic sanctions', etc. But we would also have various relationships with them such as economic, so we wouldn't be isolating ourselves from them.

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 06, 2011, 02:04:28 PM
You seem to value nurture more than nature. If you look at it from a naturalist perspective those people aren't on par with us so we can't expect the same sanity from them that we possess. Do you really believe that if we leave Islamic countries alone and allow them to become even more powerful there will suddenly magically be peace on earth? Why do you expect that? It's fraudulent humanist rhetoric if you ask me.

I should have been more clear, by "leave them alone" I meant stop giving them a hard time in terms of like invading them militarily, having a negative agenda towards them, having policies against them as 'economic sanctions', etc. But we would also have various relationships with them such as economic, so we wouldn't be isolating ourselves from them.

I understood what you meant the first time, if that's any consolation to you.

Trade is always the best way of maintaining peace -- especially moreso with our post-industrial economies.

The situation is probably much more complex than what Umbrage makes it out to be.  The big problem is Israel and the Islamic nations in the Middle East seem to be in some sort of dark age.  I saw we trade with them and slowly instill the best of western values into them; conning the mentally retarded into becoming suicide bombers may both be jihad and fucking hilarious, but it's not noble behavior.

This topic doesn't yet need another Israel/Jew related argument, but part of the "extremist" faction of ME muslims's anger with the west is because of the US meddling on Israel's behalf in addition to the US using political maneuvering to artificially lower the price of oil.  Though the neoconservatives insist that "they" hate our culture -- and that's true, yet dumbed-down for demagoguery -- it's retarded to lump a diverse area like the middle east into one singular ethnic and cultural identity.


Re: Diversity is genocide
January 08, 2011, 07:23:00 PM
Back in realityland, someone needs to rule the world, or the selfishness of individual nations wrecks it.

Right now, Muslims are on the wrong side of technology and oppose modern society. While the latter is laudable, their methods don't seem to work and the instability of their societies -- mostly owing to low average IQ produced through decline and intermixing -- works against them.

Deportation is becoming a reality, through indirect means. If no one hires the outsiders, and no one pays them welfare, they leave or become career criminals like many Roma.

As Western society faces the possibility of become a Chinese, Russian or Indian vassal-state, people are awakening to the idea of strengthening ourselves from within and ditching postmodernism, multiculturalism and all of the "you can have all the options at once, and agree to disagree" horse shit logic.

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 09, 2011, 03:28:57 PM
Back in realityland, someone needs to rule the world, or the selfishness of individual nations wrecks it.

Like some sort of pan-nationalist world government in the form of a parliament, or what?

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 10, 2011, 08:10:51 PM
Back in realityland, someone needs to rule the world, or the selfishness of individual nations wrecks it.

Like some sort of pan-nationalist world government in the form of a parliament, or what?

What I meant, but wasn't clear enough about, was that some empire will rule the world or the "known" (most financially/technologically/culturally vital) world. We should acknowledge this, and pick a good New Rome instead of a bad or mediocre one.

Re: Diversity is genocide
January 11, 2011, 04:39:30 PM
I don't believe pan-nationalism in pure form is possible for many reasons. Petroleum makes it easy to send a massive invasion force anywhere within hours. There hasn't been much of a pan-nationalist history for thousands years, predating the rise of the first empires. There are too many people all over the planet. There are too many capable, ambitious and power (expansion) hungry state and private actors operating and this will always be the case per what Conservationist says.

We would need far fewer people globally all organized mostly into post-petroleum city-states with too much distance between and too few soldiers to make sustained empire practical.