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Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 18, 2011, 07:03:35 AM
Dragonforce are only a good example at the most shallow, face value.  They don't believe in the message; if it isn't clear from the music, read an interview with them.  They are admittedly tongue-in-cheek in the most "ironic" possible way.  Also, they fake it on their instruments and incorporate gamer influence into their music.  Good or bad regardless, they are power metal deviants and not a good example.
Yeah, sorry Cargest but Dragonforce is just ironic hipster cockwaggery.
Quote
incorporate gamer influence
fucking kids and their games

Completely irrelevant, everyone knows metal of all stripes (yes, even death and black metal) owe a debt to DnD and fantasy pulp lit, which are now manifested in videogames. And Trey Azagthoth gave hails to Nintendo and Castlevania in the liner notes of either Blessed or Covenant, so the influence of games is hardly a bad thing and, I might add, it's entirely to be expected. Dragonforce's main problem is, as noted, their thoroughly ironic delivery and vapid interpretation of metal's values, along with their fucking garbage songwriting.


Power Metal is just another marketing term for whats basically either Speed Metal or Heavy Metal with fantastical epic themes and typically lots of crescendos to get you totally pumped up. It's like Black Metal for kids who find it unpalatable. Powerlifting on the other hand is a lot better than Power Metal and is highly encouraged.
I think you're right, but we can probably take your statement one step further and say that, at bottom, all genre labels are marketing terms. Power metal, Burzum, jazz, and the Hokuto no Ken soundtrack are at the molecular level hardly distinguishable. We differentiate between them, however, because not all vibrations are pleasing to all people and we need a way to communicate this (i.e., marketing). That said, power metal is a fucking gay phrase, and I'm tempted to shun the genre on the basis of the name alone.

short version: let's stop thinking that genres are rigidly defined on the metaphysical plane, they're at base useful marketing devices

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 18, 2011, 06:01:03 PM
Let's stop thinking that genres are rigidly defined on the metaphysical plane, they're at base useful marketing devices
Olympic genre classification is a poseurs game, for sure.
Hokuto no Ken
Those poseurs are already dead.

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 18, 2011, 07:18:00 PM
Those poseurs are already dead.
I'm glad that somebody here has a grounding in the classics!

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 18, 2011, 10:53:39 PM
Dragonforce are only a good example at the most shallow, face value.  They don't believe in the message; if it isn't clear from the music, read an interview with them.  They are admittedly tongue-in-cheek in the most "ironic" possible way.  Also, they fake it on their instruments and incorporate gamer influence into their music.  Good or bad regardless, they are power metal deviants and not a good example.
Yeah, sorry Cargest but Dragonforce is just ironic hipster cockwaggery.

And ain't that what I just fucking said?  Well, except hipster.  I don't think I've ever seen hipsters into Dragonforce.  Their appeal is definitely more to gamers, geeks, and new metalheads.

Quote
Quote
incorporate gamer influence
fucking kids and their games

Completely irrelevant, everyone knows metal of all stripes (yes, even death and black metal) owe a debt to DnD and fantasy pulp lit, which are now manifested in videogames. And Trey Azagthoth gave hails to Nintendo and Castlevania in the liner notes of either Blessed or Covenant, so the influence of games is hardly a bad thing and, I might add, it's entirely to be expected. Dragonforce's main problem is, as noted, their thoroughly ironic delivery and vapid interpretation of metal's values, along with their fucking garbage songwriting.


What negative thing did I say about games?  Somebody's overly defensive.

Do you have an eighth-grade reading comprehension? 

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 19, 2011, 12:03:57 AM
What negative thing did I say about games?  Somebody's overly defensive.

Do you have an eighth-grade reading comprehension? 
Perhaps my reading comprehension level is too advanced for you. Here, let me parse your paragraph like the pedantic faggot that I am.

1. Dragonforce are only a good example at the most shallow, face value.  An introduction of your main thesis.

2. They don't believe in the message; if it isn't clear from the music, read an interview with them. Furthering of the thesis.

3. They are admittedly tongue-in-cheek in the most "ironic" possible way. Development of the previous sentence

4. Also, they fake it on their instruments and incorporate gamer influence into their music. The sentence in question. At first glance it appears to continue to provide evidence for your central thesis, the shallowness of Dragonforce. The word "also" denotes that the following clauses will directly relate to and support the previous sentences. The conjunction "and" in the middle of the sentence joins "they fake it on their instruments" with "they incorporate gamer influence" and implies that these two clauses aim toward the same goal: discrediting Dragonforce as a band. However, later the author claims that the allusion to games was not meant in any discrediting sense; thus making it the only not-negative point listed in the previous sentences. This mystery will undoubtedly be cleared up in the fifth sentence.

5. Good or bad regardless, they are power metal deviants and not a good example. Aaaand once again a restatement of the original theme. The mystery remains...

Surely you can see how I arrived at my mistaken conclusion. In fact, if I was a douche, I'd suggest that this inclusion of a clause with supposedly no relation to the rest of your paragraph is symptomatic of an eighth-grade writing level, but I'm not a douche. In fact, I'm a nice guy, especially on the internet. And I sincerely apologize for agreeing with you at the start of my post. That was uncalled for by me, and thinking back on it I'm actually pretty ashamed. I forgot my only job on this forum was to disrespectfully disagree with everyone. This won't happen again, believe me.

Side note: lots and lots of gamers/geeks/anime fans/nerds are hipsters, and many of these hipster geeks listen to shitfucking metal like Rhapsody, Dragonforce, and that goddamn pirate band Alestorm. This is not a problem relegated to the music world.

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 19, 2011, 02:52:32 AM
The thesis was not that the band themselves are shallow (they are; but that's not the point), but that they deviate from the power metal norm and are thus a poor example of what power metal is like.  That they possess ONLY shallow characteristics of stereotypical power metal was one of many supporting points intended to defend the thesis that they are power metal deviants, as it was challenged by a person noting these face-value similarities.

And what definition of hipster are you using?  Last time I checked, when it came to metal, hipsters like Mastodon, Isis, Boris, The Sword, and Meshuggah.  You know, the "intellectual" and un-metal, "indie" metal bands.

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 19, 2011, 09:13:44 AM
Last time I checked, when it came to metal, hipsters like Mastodon, Isis, Boris, The Sword, and Meshuggah.  You know, the "intellectual" and un-metal, "indie" metal bands.

The above bands are hipsters themselves, but are certainly not the only "metal" that they listen to. Hipsters are prone to listening to music ironically and/or only for its "shallow characteristics." Whether it's Burzum, Dio, Suffocation or Mastodon, they see the surface aspects of the music (in the case of power metal - speedy tempos, rousing choruses, lyrics about DnD themes and trueness, etc) before assimilating it into their hipster persona. I see Dragonforce (and Rhapsody et al) as a prime candidate for assimilation due to the overblown aspects of their music and image, which probably make them seem like a "fun" band for hipsters to (ironically) rock out to.

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 19, 2011, 11:47:49 AM
Last time I checked, when it came to metal, hipsters like Mastodon, Isis, Boris, The Sword, and Meshuggah.  You know, the "intellectual" and un-metal, "indie" metal bands.

The above bands are hipsters themselves, but are certainly not the only "metal" that they listen to. Hipsters are prone to listening to music ironically and/or only for its "shallow characteristics." Whether it's Burzum, Dio, Suffocation or Mastodon, they see the surface aspects of the music (in the case of power metal - speedy tempos, rousing choruses, lyrics about DnD themes and trueness, etc) before assimilating it into their hipster persona. I see Dragonforce (and Rhapsody et al) as a prime candidate for assimilation due to the overblown aspects of their music and image, which probably make them seem like a "fun" band for hipsters to (ironically) rock out to.

Okay, so they'll listen to almost anything ironically.  But something like Rhapsody of Fire, that band is not composed of hipsters.  Whether you like them or not, they are honest power metallers who are damn serious about what they do.  I don't see why they wouldn't also attract genuine power metal fans.  I do not think power metalheads are hipsters; the kind of guys in Rhapsody and Hammerfall shirts who claim to live, fight, and die for true metal and aren't kidding are way, way too anti-ironic to be lumped in with hipsters.

I'm pretty sure as many hipsters listen to Slayer as Rhapsody, but does that make Hell Awaits a hipster album?

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 19, 2011, 02:05:00 PM
Okay, so they'll listen to almost anything ironically.  But something like Rhapsody of Fire, that band is not composed of hipsters.  Whether you like them or not, they are honest power metallers who are damn serious about what they do.  I don't see why they wouldn't also attract genuine power metal fans.  I do not think power metalheads are hipsters; the kind of guys in Rhapsody and Hammerfall shirts who claim to live, fight, and die for true metal and aren't kidding are way, way too anti-ironic to be lumped in with hipsters.

I'm pretty sure as many hipsters listen to Slayer as Rhapsody, but does that make Hell Awaits a hipster album?

No, because they listen to Diabolous In Musica.

Do they claim to live, fight, and die for true metal? Or do they actually do those things? Making a grandiose claim and not following up on it sounds like something an irresponsible and flaky person would do (coincidentally many hipster types I have encountered have these characteristics).
No.

Having reviewed the thread, baby Jesus is most definitely weeping at this point.

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 19, 2011, 02:55:38 PM
Okay, so they'll listen to almost anything ironically.  But something like Rhapsody of Fire, that band is not composed of hipsters.  Whether you like them or not, they are honest power metallers who are damn serious about what they do.  I don't see why they wouldn't also attract genuine power metal fans.  I do not think power metalheads are hipsters; the kind of guys in Rhapsody and Hammerfall shirts who claim to live, fight, and die for true metal and aren't kidding are way, way too anti-ironic to be lumped in with hipsters.

I'm pretty sure as many hipsters listen to Slayer as Rhapsody, but does that make Hell Awaits a hipster album?

No, because they listen to Diabolous In Musica.

Do they claim to live, fight, and die for true metal? Or do they actually do those things? Making a grandiose claim and not following up on it sounds like something an irresponsible and flaky person would do (coincidentally many hipster types I have encountered have these characteristics).

No one listens to Diabolous in Musica. :P

And yeah, the people spreading the message, growing their hair, buying the albums, seeing the concerts, wearing the clothes, bashing the poseurs, etc. are doing what is meant by fighting for metal.

Re: Definition of Power Metal, Prog and Sam Dunn
January 20, 2011, 01:02:00 AM
I think you're right, but we can probably take your statement one step further and say that, at bottom, all genre labels are marketing terms. Power metal, Burzum, jazz, and the Hokuto no Ken soundtrack are at the molecular level hardly distinguishable. We differentiate between them, however, because not all vibrations are pleasing to all people and we need a way to communicate this (i.e., marketing). That said, power metal is a fucking gay phrase, and I'm tempted to shun the genre on the basis of the name alone.
Raoh should have kicked Ken's ass. The creators decided to indulge in hackneyed Christian symbolism, though, and thereby ruined the series.

Here's a goody for you:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwKp_ozqeaU
Let us go beyond "you" and "me"! Feel cosmically!
   
    Friedrich Nietzsche