Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Frustrating metal websites

Frustrating metal websites
January 12, 2011, 08:27:45 PM
I'm writing up a piece about the state of the online metal scene, and I thought I'd share to humorous examples of frustrating metal websites. I'll just copy and paste it in here:

1) An example of a particularly frustrating website is World Metal Alliance, apparently "a global organization of heavy metal advocates" as the sub-title under its logo says. The WMA's front page explains what the website's about:

" Nearly two decades ago, thousands of metalheads joined together to oppose Tipper Gore and the PMRC. In the process they formed a fortress that still stands to this day... "better than it was before. Better, stronger, faster." The World Metal Alliance is a global organization of heavy metal fans and heavy metal musicians founded in 1992. It has never charged for membership or has filled anyone's inbox with annoying spam emails. The WMA's mission is the same today, as the day it was founded: "To protect, promote and preserve heavy metal music by informing and uniting the heavy metal subculture." During its first four years the World Metal Alliance operated using only printed media, conventional mail and word-of-mouth. Yet the WMA's message of strength through unity quickly spread, successfully gaining members from all 50 States and throughout the world. Eventually the organization would continue these efforts online in 2000, with even greater success. And although the methods of communication have changed, our mission has not. "

I'm very interested and encouraged to have discovered the WMA's website, but then I get to the last line: "And we think you'll find our primary goal for unification is what makes our heavy metal forum not only informative, but extremely more positive than every other heavy metal forum on the Internet." I don't fully understand that last line, until I search through the whole site and find it consists of absolutely nothing but a discussion forum, and a pretty inactive one at that. I fully support WMA's original mission of opposing the PMRC, but where's the "global organization of heavy metal advocates?" It's just a forum, and a lot of merchandise members can purchase. Also at the bottom of the front page it says in obnoxiously large letters (I'm talking a 72 point font) "You've got to belong to it." and then in smaller letters underneath it prompts you to click for a free membership. The website also provides a brief history of the WMA, including this little gem starting out with: "By 1994 the rising cost of postage and growing number of members made it financially impossible to continue to communicate by conventional mail and we were forced to discontinue the newsletter." The newsletter was their whole thing, so once it ended nothing else was left. Then it proceeds to speculate: "By 1996, four years after its formation, and 2 years after the last newsletter the flow of new members began to decrease. There are several theories for this decline including the rise of grunge and the lessening [PMRC] threat against metal." Oh, right, it must have been the grunge!...

2) Lamentations of the Flame Princess (LotFP) is a good example of something in my experience I call 'too good to be true'. It's the website of an apparently top-notch metal print magazine that's existed since 1998. The website describes the magazine thusly: "Its content is totally independent of record company supervision or interference (no advertising is accepted), and we like to think LotFP contains the most in-depth and critical heavy metal writing currently in print." Offered free of charge on the website are, among other things, some truly outstanding (and lengthy) articles, such as Impure Metal: How Underground Heavy Metal Became Mainstream Heavy Music or False Metal: The Financial and Farcical Return of Heavy Metal. The problem is, this announcement is the last breath of life I can find on the website: "Open for business again! Everything on the right side under the 'Latest...' headers are brand-new content as of the last couple of days. More, and more current, to come!" More, it seems, is not to come, and in true metal fashion nowhere on the website is posted any sort of explanation to help the curious reader save some minutes of his life searching for one. (It's amazing how many times a metal website shuts down without posting so much as a brief notice on its front page to let its readers know.) But wait! It seems it's not a total wash out, as apparently LotFP is still alive and well here... the trouble is the owner's turned it into a fantasy role-playing game accessories store, without a word about the switch, and they even kept the same name and logo! I understand now why the flame princess laments. Part of me wants to write the owner for clarifications, but a larger part of me doesn't care because no explanation could be sufficient.

Those are the two examples. Feel free to share your own stories about frustrating metal websites. Also, I only listen to metal personally, but do any of you who also listen to other musical genres know how it is with their online scenes? How do you think the online metal scene is in terms of quality compared to the online scenes of other musical genres?

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 02:35:08 PM

1) An example of a particularly frustrating website is World Metal Alliance, apparently "a global organization of heavy metal advocates" as the sub-title under its logo says. The WMA's front page explains what the website's about:

" Nearly two decades ago, thousands of metalheads joined together to oppose Tipper Gore and the PMRC. In the process they formed a fortress that still stands to this day... "better than it was before. Better, stronger, faster." The World Metal Alliance is a global organization of heavy metal fans and heavy metal musicians founded in 1992. It has never charged for membership or has filled anyone's inbox with annoying spam emails. The WMA's mission is the same today, as the day it was founded: "To protect, promote and preserve heavy metal music by informing and uniting the heavy metal subculture." During its first four years the World Metal Alliance operated using only printed media, conventional mail and word-of-mouth. Yet the WMA's message of strength through unity quickly spread, successfully gaining members from all 50 States and throughout the world. Eventually the organization would continue these efforts online in 2000, with even greater success. And although the methods of communication have changed, our mission has not. "

I'm very interested and encouraged to have discovered the WMA's website, but then I get to the last line: "And we think you'll find our primary goal for unification is what makes our heavy metal forum not only informative, but extremely more positive than every other heavy metal forum on the Internet." I don't fully understand that last line, until I search through the whole site and find it consists of absolutely nothing but a discussion forum, and a pretty inactive one at that. I fully support WMA's original mission of opposing the PMRC, but where's the "global organization of heavy metal advocates?" It's just a forum, and a lot of merchandise members can purchase. Also at the bottom of the front page it says in obnoxiously large letters (I'm talking a 72 point font) "You've got to belong to it." and then in smaller letters underneath it prompts you to click for a free membership. The website also provides a brief history of the WMA, including this little gem starting out with: "By 1994 the rising cost of postage and growing number of members made it financially impossible to continue to communicate by conventional mail and we were forced to discontinue the newsletter." The newsletter was their whole thing, so once it ended nothing else was left. Then it proceeds to speculate: "By 1996, four years after its formation, and 2 years after the last newsletter the flow of new members began to decrease. There are several theories for this decline including the rise of grunge and the lessening [PMRC] threat against metal." Oh, right, it must have been the grunge!...

I stumbled upon this while browsing a bunch of metal sites including this one.  I'm a WMA member, not one in any sort of power but I've been posting and voting for that site for over a year.  While the traffic is indeed low compared to many other sites, the the philosophy of the site is the most true and positive one you can find online.  We focus on the positives, not the negatives, and we all have respect for each other because of our shared taste for heavy metal.  While not exactly political at its core, the organization does believe that metalheads should be opposed to censorship and celebrate freedom and creativity, and many members are interested in politics.  It's a minority in the metal community; we don't allow members to talk down on each other because of race, religion, or taste in art or music.  It's a place to put that aside and remember that we all love heavy metal, and at the end of the day there is a need for a community who are like that.

Yes, if you want huge traffic you'd be better of posting at the metal archives or something.  I do myself, but not because of the people or the philosophy, but because of the traffic which inevitably results in a ton of interesting discussion.  But WMA, it's doing something different, and it's a great place to chill and enjoy the metal, and advocate how the rest of the metal community should fell (passionate, respectful, and proud).

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 02:39:07 PM
Because peace, love, and tolerance is what metal is all about.

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 02:41:26 PM
Exactly, although not exactly.  You love and tolerate people who aren't harming others or standing in the way of your goals.  I presume you were trying to make sure I expounded on that important issue I ommitted; I figured it was common sense.  No, we will not condone just any behavior.

One example that comes to mind is some feminist who joined and tried to start a motion to fight "sexism" in metal bands.  Of course, he was referring to petty issues like the objectification of women at concerts and album covers, stuff like that.  If something's just silly and plain not metal, yeah we'll crack jokes at them.

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 02:42:35 PM
Sorry, I edit too much.  I'll change it back.

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 02:50:39 PM
You can't have interesting discussions about art if you're not allowed to "put down" other members for their tastes and views.  The only people you will attract with such a method are the lowest common denominator, those most likely to have been run out of every other site.  Sounds like a site perfect for unblack metal and slipknot fans.

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 02:51:30 PM
You can disagree without attacking members personally.  There's a difference between:

"Slipknot sucks, dude.  Can't stand them."

and

"Fuck you fag.  You don't belong here."

And interestingly enough, nu metal fans are the minority.  80's heavy and thrash metal is the most popular taste, I'd say.  So, your theory of attracting that type is mostly incorrect.

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 03:03:35 PM
I'm saying the only people that method would attract are the mouth-breathers.  You'd probably have those 80's fans with or without it.  It sounds unnecessary to me.  Putting down others is a lot of fun when it's done well and when it's not, if you have a good group of people at your site, then the members themselves should act as quality control against unwarranted bullying.  But if someone likes Dragonforce, for instance, they deserve a good "Fuck you fag."

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 03:17:18 PM
Except that won't contribute to any worthwhile discussion or productivity.  I think it would be much better to say, "Here is why Dragonforce are not a god band...(and then logically critique them)."  It's encouraged that members look at metal as an art form, and if you don't like something it would be best to explain why like a real music critic, a real fan rather than just a drooling Neanderthal without the intellectual capacity to criticize.

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 03:19:09 PM
You can disagree without attacking members personally.  There's a difference between:

"Slipknot sucks, dude.  Can't stand them."

and

"Fuck you fag.  You don't belong here."

And interestingly enough, nu metal fans are the minority.  80's heavy and thrash metal is the most popular taste, I'd say.  So, your theory of attracting that type is mostly incorrect.

Not ignoring that you suggest WMA is mostly about 80's and thrash, but what if there's 10 people who praise Pante.ra and 6 people who think Pante.ra sucks? Does it become a democratic vote then? And what when the 10 Pante.ra fans introduce 20 more Pante.ra friends and suddenly you get the feeling that you no longer belong there? Because that's how it tends to work, that's why some people are so skeptical about tolerating crap.

And people are sensitive about taste whether you (or WMA) want to admit that or not. In that sense it doesn't even matter how hard you slam someone else's musical/sexual/religious/political preference, the fact that you disagree can be experienced as offensive anyway.

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 03:25:27 PM
You can disagree without attacking members personally.  There's a difference between:

"Slipknot sucks, dude.  Can't stand them."

and

"Fuck you fag.  You don't belong here."

And interestingly enough, nu metal fans are the minority.  80's heavy and thrash metal is the most popular taste, I'd say.  So, your theory of attracting that type is mostly incorrect.

Not ignoring that you suggest WMA is mostly about 80's and thrash, but what if there's 10 people who praise Pante.ra and 6 people who think Pante.ra sucks? Does it become a democratic vote then? And what when the 10 Pante.ra fans introduce 20 more Pante.ra friends and suddenly you get the feeling that you no longer belong there? Because that's how it tends to work, that's why some people are so skeptical about tolerating crap.

And people are sensitive about taste whether you (or WMA) want to admit that or not. In that sense it doesn't even matter how hard you slam someone else's musical/sexual/religious/political preference, the fact that you disagree can be experienced as offensive anyway.


We're not about heavy and thrash, it just happens to be by chance and circumstance what is the most popular.  We have plenty of death metal fans, power metal fans, doom metal fans, and black metal fans.  I've never been a ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? fan, but it doesn't bother me that there are some ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? fans there because I can always stay out of the ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? threads.

If someone can't stand disagreement, then they probably should not be there.  We disagree and debate all the time, maybe some people might even crack a few friendly jokes, but we don't slam each other.  There is a huge difference.

EDIT:  Haha, I see you censor Panter.a

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 07:45:05 PM
But if someone likes Dragonforce, for instance, they deserve a good "Fuck you fag."


Fuck you too, fag :)

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 08:19:01 PM
I stumbled upon this while browsing a bunch of metal sites including this one.  I'm a WMA member, not one in any sort of power but I've been posting and voting for that site for over a year.  While the traffic is indeed low compared to many other sites, the the philosophy of the site is the most true and positive one you can find online.  We focus on the positives, not the negatives, and we all have respect for each other because of our shared taste for heavy metal.  While not exactly political at its core, the organization does believe that metalheads should be opposed to censorship and celebrate freedom and creativity, and many members are interested in politics.  It's a minority in the metal community; we don't allow members to talk down on each other because of race, religion, or taste in art or music.  It's a place to put that aside and remember that we all love heavy metal, and at the end of the day there is a need for a community who are like that.

Yes, if you want huge traffic you'd be better of posting at the metal archives or something.  I do myself, but not because of the people or the philosophy, but because of the traffic which inevitably results in a ton of interesting discussion.  But WMA, it's doing something different, and it's a great place to chill and enjoy the metal, and advocate how the rest of the metal community should fell (passionate, respectful, and proud).

I appreciate the clarifications, however I don't think any part of what you said defended against my initial criticisms of WMA - shameful, misrepresentative self-portrayal and advertisement, not to mention some logical incongruity with their own history

But if someone likes Dragonforce, for instance, they deserve a good "Fuck you fag."

So not only must they endure the stupefying conventionality of poor music, they must be slandered for it as well?

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 09:21:56 PM
I've never been a ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? fan, but it doesn't bother me that there are some ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? fans there because I can always stay out of the ARE YOU TALKIN TO ME? threads.

This can be said of anything. "You know, I'm not a big fan of discussing different kinds of bread, and yeah, I know that this is a metal forum and all, but I guess that if I don't want to talk about bread, I can always stay out of the bread threads!"

Also, people can talk about P antera anywhere. What about their ability to talk about P antera on your particular forum justifies its existence in the face of redundancy? What's the selling point? What does it do that isn't already being handled by someone else?

Re: examples of frustrating metal websites
January 14, 2011, 10:14:19 PM
But if someone likes Dragonforce, for instance, they deserve a good "Fuck you fag."


Fuck you too, fag :)

:P

So not only must they endure the stupefying conventionality of poor music, they must be slandered for it as well?
I was obviously being facetious.  I was only trying to say that I think it's a bit silly to define and advertise a metal website for it's censorship against bullying.