Looking back over four evolutionary waves now, Black Metal was evidently Northern European, meaning not just heredity but surrounding culture as well.
sarcofago is from northern europe?
it's disrespectful to this band when people claim that all of black metal derives from northern europe.
euronymous WAS influenced by sarcofago. burzum WAS influenced by von.
Sarcofago was influenced by Discharge, Hellhammer, Bathory, Slayer, Possessed and Sodom and is not materially different from them. Most of the Von riffs or very close analogues appear on the early Sepultura EPs anyway.
If you took Discharge and Judas Priest in a vacuum, you'd end up with black metal. The Norwegians just did it to a grand scale previously unimagined, and ended metal music as a result.
I'm merely stating that Relativism is not the same as Subjectivism, though people often use Relativism (incorrectly) to support Subjectivism.
It shouldn't be -- but historically, Relativism is less related to relativity than to Subjectivism of a liberal sort. Sorry, it sucks and is linguistically inaccurate. I don't see many people who endorse "relativity" (scientiic concept) also endorsing "relativism" (political concept, indistinguishable from primary liberalism).
Because this subject comes up again and again, and almost seems to be an inevitable point of termination in any thread where there is a dispute over the quality of a given piece of music, it might not be a terrible idea to actually make a sticky post for the subject. The argument could be hashed out there and banned from any other thread. I think it's pretty clear that the point is contentious enough that it's going to continue to pop up. This way, it can be discussed in a contained way without derailing discussions and demoralizing/exhausting people.
You are right: we should clarify.
I guess the idea of people using objective argument to "prove" subjectivism always cracks me up, as does the idea that patterns of rhythm and tone which have certain influence on the human nervous system somehow being "subjective." But that's a convenient cover story for the losers out there who want to justify their shitty music.