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Good Music Transcends Genre

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 03, 2011, 04:39:34 AM
How could one not like the song?  It's Emperor, for God's sake, albeit played in an interesting way.

I might make a dance remix of Cosmic Keys one of these days.

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 03, 2011, 12:38:40 PM
Attention: CALLING YOU OUT

Transcendentalists and surf-rockers both oughta shut the fuck up. The original "I am the Black Wizards" is way more "fun" than the surf-rock version because fun includes face-meltingly serious tremolo guitars, blastbeats, and tortured screams from the UNSILENT ABYSS. (My definition also includes gay-ass anime techno remixes but keep that shit out of my metal. In Flames and Dark Tranquility have proven the viability of that route...) I thought people here listened to metal because they like it (i.e. they find it "fun"). Apparently we listen to metal because it imparts truth OR because we find it compositionally beautiful. Let me go gargle on a cock to wash the taste of bullshit out of my mouth.

And @ the COMPLETELY RETARDED IDEA that composition is somehow the most important aspect: while the composition of something is indeed important, ignoring aesthetics is a critical mistake. Composition and aesthetics should always complement each other, and in one sense are the same fucking thing. Imagine taking a wonderful and complex game game -- say, civilization -- and replacing all the units with porn stars. Or, taking Humphrey Bogart out of Casablanca and sticking in Ronald Reagan. Replacing all the violins in Beethoven's ninth with xylaphones. Michaelangelo's David covered in pink polka dots. "But, it's still David! You should like it, for god's sake!" No you faggot it's David covered in ungodly pink polka dots.

Notice in some of these cases a "purely aesthetic" change would actually change the composition of the work (you can't do as much with Reagan or a xylophone as you could with Bogart or a violin). Surf rock, just in the realm of technique (instrumentation, playing style) is a more limited form of music than metal. Thus, instead of Emperor, we have something a little bit (actually a whole fucking lottabit) less than Emperor. Music I can play softly in the background while entertaining guests on my private yacht, but I'd be hard-pressed to down a Jameson and bang my fucking head to it while cooking breakfast.

You fuckers just got CALLED. Don't even bother replying, I'm going to spend the next two weeks washing your bullshit off by snorkeling off my private yacht in the caribbean, jesus fucking dicks


Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 03, 2011, 01:42:11 PM
Don't even bother replying
It's not worth my time anyways.

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 11, 2011, 12:35:47 PM
garbage
infantile trash

It's still Dead Can Dance, right? How could you not like it?

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 11, 2011, 02:32:41 PM
I still like the melodies they're using, and the aesthetic doesn't even bother me that much, if at all. Why are you so angry that people may have an idea that you don't have? Is it because you've fashioned yourself as an authority?

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 11, 2011, 06:06:39 PM
I still like the melodies they're using, and the aesthetic doesn't even bother me that much, if at all. Why are you so angry that people may have an idea that you don't have? Is it because you've fashioned yourself as an authority?
Why I am so angry

Now that that issue is explained, I am more than a little dumbfounded that on the forum for the greatest English-language metal website on the internet, a website that found style and technique so important that it features a map of styles and an index of many of the major techniques in the genre, as well as an explanation of how technical and stylistic developments helped pioneer more complex compositions and melody, that people could adhere to the mildly ludicrous belief that style and genre are not only unimportant, but unrelated to composition and say that lounge versions of Emperor are still great.

And if the best thing you can say about a song is "I like the melodies they're using, and the aesthetic doesn't even bother me that much," (the last clause here is priceless, in my authoritative opinion) then you probably would be better off listening to something where you could say "Fuck yes, these melodies are amazing and go perfectly well with the aesthetic!" But if you need a break from getting maximum enjoyment out of your listening time, be my guest!

Next week: Why I am a destiny

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 11, 2011, 06:14:33 PM
I have to say, I find myself in agreement with Mr. Gawd on this issue of aesthetic.  Maybe I'm dense but I've never understood how one can truly separate aesthetic from composition, especially in genres like Death and Black Metal.  One obvious example would be the intentional use of lo-fi production by Black Metal bands.  I mean would Transilvanian Hunger really be what it is if the production weren't so fucked?

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 11, 2011, 07:19:55 PM
Putting words in my mouth much? Coming from a background in music theory, if you transpose a melodic progression into a different key, or play it on a different instrument, the notation remains the same. I never saw anything more being said when the idea that aesthetic does not equal content was suggested. I'm not even a fan of the surf rock tunes, I just found your use of language akin to a 16 year old with something to prove.

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 11, 2011, 09:36:34 PM
Putting words in my mouth much? Coming from a background in music theory, if you transpose a melodic progression into a different key, or play it on a different instrument, the notation remains the same. I never saw anything more being said when the idea that aesthetic does not equal content was suggested. I'm not even a fan of the surf rock tunes, I just found your use of language akin to a 16 year old with something to prove.
In my first paragraph I wasn't commenting on your opinion of the style vs. composition issue; I was explaining my astonishment at the idiocy expressed earlier in this thread by otherwise intelligent people who like metal (maybe they even play it!) that composition is what makes music great, rather than a unity between style and technique, (which I referred to as aesthetics, not necessarily because it was the most correct word but because it was the most expedient) and composition. But yeah, I should have been clearer there, I always forget that everyone on the internet feels that everyone is trying to insult their beliefs. They're probably right in thinking so, especially when speaking with dickshits like me, but still...

And thanks for the advanced music theory lesson! However, I am struggling to see what your brilliantly lucid explanation adds to the discussion. Yes, you can technically transcribe almost any piece of music to any key to be played on another instrument, but we have to make some considerations beforehand: CAN the instrument play the piece, and will it fit with the intention of the piece? This should be self-evident to anyone who has seriously played music in any form. Also self-evident: a great artist will choose tools, style, and composition that further the vision of the work. Any style or technique that does not fit or even completely destroys the vision (as is the case with our black metal beach bums) is an artistic mistake, and at worst, an insult to the listener's taste. I almost feel stupid having to say such obvious things, and I'd like to assume that everyone here thinks this way, though perhaps I'm wrong...

Case in point: Emperor is not just glorious for the brilliant harmonic of "I am the Black Wizard," they are brilliant for choosing the perfect technique and style to capture their youthful love of malevolence, their delirious rapture with the beautiful forces of the dark. It doesn't even matter if these effects were chosen purposefully or arose out of necessity, the overall impact of the music is marvelous and immersive. Now, "Surf Wizards" expresses none of these feelings, and as you probably noticed, is pretty boring and vapid; one would have to be very new to music or very high to find lose themselves in the lush soundscapes of "Surf Wizards". Cargest would tell us it is "awe-inspiring," Emperor "played in an interesting way,"  but he likes Belus. (That was a joke! Not a cheap-shot!) It is not "awe-inspiring," in fact it inspires nothing except a modest desire to click on the original Emperor song, which YouTube thoughtfully suggests to us on the side of the screen.

So, my original beef: a thread that should have been an obvious example of the importance of a finely-tuned aesthetic sense is instead brought into lala land by Belus fans.

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 11, 2011, 09:53:45 PM
I agree with you on all points, I just didn't see a point in being so argumentative about stating them. There are too many posters here already who have deluded themselves into thinking that they are engaged in some sort of epic internet warfare with the evil/whatever insult is thrusted at the forums or the website on any given day of the week ANUS regime, and it is severely detrimental to the quality of discussion. I'd prefer to see things come to a point of people discussing the mechanics of ideas, not why everyone is a fag for not bolstering their e-persona.

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 12, 2011, 12:37:34 AM
Just drink a few glasses of wine and have fun with the songs.  It's not an insult to your sacred icons.

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 12, 2011, 03:26:45 AM
ANUS regime
Said regime do it themselves, and might I add, openly and actively encouragely that we all do this to anything that they do not like. Sometimes it's hard to click back from "we're not at war on this particularly forum" mode IMO.

I am not however condoning such behaviour, and wholeheartedly agree with where you are coming from mate. Cheers.

I can see both sides of the argument for this one, and I think you're correct they're both very heavy handed. I thought that the intention of this thread was for the purpose of light humour, myself.

Re: Good Music Transcends Genre
February 12, 2011, 07:50:37 AM
I think we're missing the grey area. The genius of the original compositions still shining through on the surf tunes does not amount to a complete disregard for the aesthetics of the original tracks. Whilst not wishing to tell people to enjoy the surf tunes, it is amazing that the composition does still shine through played in this style. This does not play down the aesthetics, because the original point was not about aesthetics. Of course I'd rather listen to Emperor than silly surf covers, but that does not mean that the surf covers do not demonstrate the compositional strength of these works.

Another example posted here before:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBtyBtRAaOw