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Sun possibly in trouble

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 19, 2011, 08:23:15 AM
Quote
There was no utter panic up here. Everyone did what they did to save their homes & belongings, went into survival mode when the time came and got started helping each other clean up the mess when the danger had passed etc. About the only people that panicked, made a big drama were the government and the media. I found it enlightening that people who had just lost everything they'd worked their whole lives for just got on with it, and better yet still found the time to help others in their community despite the gloomy nature of the situation.

Probably the only thing on topic/worthwhile said so far.

So, can we extrapolate this to more serious disasters, where there's not an obvious way to go about things? In this case, what you have to do is obvious: make sure your stuff is in order, then help others get their stuff in order. Anything that requires serious planning, with no built in consensus as to what should be done isn't going to play out too well.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 19, 2011, 08:48:13 AM
Then again, we have some historical of revolutions in which, after the old order faded away, people went batshit insane. Did you know that the term coup de grace came from the merciful death by guillotine that 'opposition' to the revolution would beg for after being tortured publicly? Also, some ladies man wrote about attending the public torture frequently, because the ladies would get all nice and lusty after watching them, and it was easy for him to get laid afterword. People do lose control pretty easily, just maybe not in the situations we'd expect them to.

Anyway, I think that when the article was posted people could have just discussed the possibilities mentioned in the article, instead of getting into a catfight about it. For all the talk of wanting to focus on 'real' things only, the people who are advocating realistic discussion sure aren't discussing things in the way anyone I've ever met in person would.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 20, 2011, 05:28:31 AM
The virtual bulletin board format enables the sort of contextless, autistic snark that is rarely encountered in person.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 20, 2011, 05:50:16 AM
The virtual bulletin board format enables the sort of contextless, autistic snark that is rarely encountered in person.

Some say don't feed the trolls, I say feed the trolls spinach and it almost always works, but in any case I think there's always a good solution.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 21, 2011, 06:47:32 PM
Again. I disagree.

I live in a part of the world that just got a) flooded b) hit by one of the biggest cyclones in recorded history for this part of the world (category 5, slightly smaller than Katrina.

There was no utter panic up here. Everyone did what they did to save their homes & belongings, went into survival mode when the time came and got started helping each other clean up the mess when the danger had passed etc. About the only people that panicked, made a big drama were the government and the media. I found it enlightening that people who had just lost everything they'd worked their whole lives for just got on with it, and better yet still found the time to help others in their community despite the gloomy nature of the situation.

Do you have anything to add to the contrary?

It's fine for you to stereotype everyone or everything to suit your own small experience of the world (I don't say this in a derogative aspect, I am comparing your experience to the world as a whole) , but if you are only going to offer unfounded hypothesis, then I'm not going to take you very seriously.

Re Conservationalist; this guy has insulted / trolled on the internet for as along as I can remember. Honestly, I don't think a bit of banter is going to put him out of shape. It's cool he can look after himself.

PS: I also didn't insult him personally. I insulted his behaviour in linking an article that included 'armchair hysteria.' I have no control over the way he acted. My post had some information, his second did not (just solely existed to rail-road me because he felt butt-hurt).
Here's what I have to add to the contrary: There is a big fucking difference between a flood and the destruction of the earth as we know it, most busters realize they don't have the ability to escape the situation (unlike a flood) and will either practically or literally enslave themselves to those who can (the dudes building the space ark) or say fuck it lets go crazy and begin having wild sex, abusing drugs, killing and stealing etc.

Of course this would assume you'd be able to actually convince most people that the world is indeed fucked.

PS I also don't give a shit who you were or weren't trying to insult personally, but I'd like to thank you personally for letting me know you weren't trying to hurt my feelings by telling me that I stereotype the whole world, you don't take me seriously and that my opinion is unfounded. Not to mention letting me know my experience in the world is small and insignificant compared to your rad life dodging hurricanes, which unlike myself, gives you the foundation for making a prediction about what people do if the earth was destroyed in an astronomical catastrophe.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 21, 2011, 10:52:46 PM
I'm not really going to weigh on the discussion except to say that this recent fetish of apocalypticism is informed heavily by the Mesoamerican 2012 horseshit, which is little more than a media construct.  Feel free to speculate as to why we're suddenly seeing an increased interest in the exploits of Mesoamerican cultures.  

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 22, 2011, 12:46:42 AM
I don't know about elsewhere but we periodically got Mesoamerican studies through the primary and middle school grades a "long time" ago. This, in a Scots-German dominated area where even the few Africans outnumbered the Latino residents. Curriculum is probably concocted as a state level requirement indicating even this level of centralization produces nonsensical results. Anyway, the abrupt end to the calendar did come up but anything about an end of days scenario was considered fanciful speculation not worth discussion time.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 22, 2011, 01:07:24 AM
That might mean the end of the callendar is significant, not the end of the world based on it.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 22, 2011, 01:24:28 AM
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some New Agey hippie poop

then

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"For the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle," says Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies in Crystal River, Fla. To render Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting, she says, is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."

Part of the 2012 mystique stems from the stars. On the winter solstice in 2012, the sun will be aligned with the center of the Milky Way for the first time in about 26,000 years. This means that "whatever energy typically streams to Earth from the center of the Milky Way will indeed be disrupted on 12/21/12 at 11:11 p.m. Universal Time," Joseph writes.

But scholars doubt the ancient Maya extrapolated great meaning from anticipating the alignment if they were even aware of what the configuration would be.

Astronomers generally agree that "it would be impossible the Maya themselves would have known that," says Susan Milbrath, a Maya archaeoastronomer and a curator at the Florida Museum of Natural History. What's more, she says, "we have no record or knowledge that they would think the world would come to an end at that point."

University of Florida anthropologist Susan Gillespie says the 2012 phenomenon comes "from media and from other people making use of the Maya past to fulfill agendas that are really their own."

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 22, 2011, 08:43:27 AM

Here's what I have to add to the contrary: There is a big fucking difference between a flood and the destruction of the earth as we know it, most busters realize they don't have the ability to escape the situation (unlike a flood) and will either practically or literally enslave themselves to those who can (the dudes building the space ark) or say fuck it lets go crazy and begin having wild sex, abusing drugs, killing and stealing etc.

Of course this would assume you'd be able to actually convince most people that the world is indeed fucked.

Again, you have provided no behavioural evidence as to why you think mankind cannot survive.

You have merely stated what you think, not basing it on any concrete experience from what has already happened. Granted the situation is entirely hypothetical, and very very unlikely to happen.

Very rarely in nature do you see something with its back to the wall just curl up and die without any evidence of a fight. It's unheard of.

PS I also don't give a shit who you were or weren't trying to insult personally, but I'd like to thank you personally for letting me know you weren't trying to hurt my feelings by telling me that I stereotype the whole world, you don't take me seriously and that my opinion is unfounded. Not to mention letting me know my experience in the world is small and insignificant compared to your rad life dodging hurricanes, which unlike myself, gives you the foundation for making a prediction about what people do if the earth was destroyed in an astronomical catastrophe.
I deliberately made that remark to see how closely you would read what I'd written. Obviously you just skimmed, because that is not what I said.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 23, 2011, 08:41:50 PM
Again, you have provided no behavioural evidence as to why you think mankind cannot survive.

You have merely stated what you think, not basing it on any concrete experience from what has already happened. Granted the situation is entirely hypothetical, and very very unlikely to happen.

Very rarely in nature do you see something with its back to the wall just curl up and die without any evidence of a fight. It's unheard of.
I never said mankind wouldn't survive, I wouldn't be surprised if we did or didn't. If I was you I might claim that you didn't really read what I typed, I said most people will be aware that they have little to contribute to such an effort so most of them will have to enslave or otherwise associate themselves with the brainy motherfuckers to survive and the ones unwilling to do that will probably just live out their normal hedonistic (not in the classical sense) lives either doubting or damning the impending destruction because something like the sun will be exploding soon won't be immediately obvious to everyone without the equipment or knowledge required to make such an inference. I don't see any "curling up and dying" in this scenario, in fact this would be very similar to tribal human society: If you are weak you have no choice but to enslave yourself to the strong or die.

And you know what, you got me, I don't have any "concrete" evidence I just have my anecdotal evidence of how I've seen humans behave in my experience. You didn't provide any concrete evidence either other than pointing out what people do in hurricane which is an immensely different situation, and if we're going to really get anal about this shit I could say that you provided no proof that most people really do go into survival mode in such situations seeing as how in hurricanes and other natural disasters people go looting and engage in all sorts of chaos. I do agree that many people would go into "survival mode" but most people aren't experienced as physicists and engineers enough to build a sick space ark so in this situation "survival mode" would be associating yourself with these people so they may take you with them off of the fucked earth.

I deliberately made that remark to see how closely you would read what I'd written. Obviously you just skimmed, because that is not what I said.
What about "It's fine for you to stereotype everyone or everything" or "but if you are only going to offer unfounded hypothesis, then I'm not going to take you very seriously"? It is true that my experience in the universe is minuscule indeed, but yours surely is too as are all humans are so whats the point of even mentioning that other than to try to insult me? Especially seeing as how you wrote it as if it only or especially applied to me. If you say shit like that in physical life than you must come across as a real prick.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 26, 2011, 12:21:09 AM
Ok, thanks for the feedback. I will attempt to change my "discussion" style so that we have a more topical debate next time.

My main fascination in the last few months has been moons such as Titan that have bodies of liquid substances (in Titan's case Methane!) and atmospheric pressure close to that of the earth. The Saturnian system is fascinating in a lot of respects. The high-degree of order and interaction between all of its parts, in both an aesthetic and practical sense is amazing.

The Juvian system has a moon called Europa, which scientists hypothesise has a massive ocean of water below its icy surface. The water is apparently kept liquid (rather than ice) by the heat generated by tidal forces.

Both of these have the potential for extraterrestrial life, but human habitation is out of the question with our current level of knowledge.




Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 26, 2011, 03:28:49 AM
I understand one of the major problems facing our colonizing the Jovian satellites is the immense and powerful Van Allen type ionizing radiation belts common to gas giants: the kind that acts like a machinegun to the dna, causing it stop replicating appropriate cells and start making garbled cancerous cells.

None of the satellites are likely to have any value for us except as active cosmology curiosities.

Methane can be scooped off the outer atmosphere of the gas giants themselves using a convoy of unmanned harvesting drones. Metals, minerals, and ice water would be much easier to extract from the asteroid belt.

Re: Sun possibly in trouble
February 26, 2011, 04:17:47 AM
Apart from the fact that they're also outside of the recognised "habital zone" for humans, the Jovian satellites also are part of massive gravital tugs of war in many cases. Which makes moons like Io that are stuck in between the orbits of larger moons (and the planet itself) full of vulcanism. So, as you said there is a hell of a lot of radiation floating around in Jupiter's massive magnetic fields.

The main purpose of studying these systems is learning more about the building blocks of the solar system, in the hope that it can give us clues as to where to a) find our origins b) find these origins around distance stars. Every single piece of matter relates to the bigger picture.