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Who else enjoys early Cradle of Filth or Dimmu Borgir?

It seems prudent for every band who commercialized themselves to be shot at with artillery. Still, what band has always kept integrity other than Graveland? New Burzum is a middle-age crisis, new Cryptopsy is terrible, and new Immortal seems very similar to the Harry Potter movies.

What I am interested at, however, is to take bands from their grand eras and assess the music and ideologies of their members at the times, whether or not they are corporate CEO's these days.

The first three albums by CoF and Dimmu seem to carry a magnificence and distinction that few bands have surpassed. We have Dusk and her Embrace which has a solid narrative structure and a professional modern elaboration on the sublimity of the English Gothic, which is furthered in Cruelty and the Beast a more masochistic narrative vein (musically and thematically). An album like Stormblåst is a sweeping, atmospheric and personable arrangement of the early BM scene with over-pronounced Romantic gestures.. almost more representational of the 'Norwegian sound' than any other act of the era...

For philosophy; interviews and text reveal deep and concentrated individuals who are focused on an almost Schopenhaurean aesthetic to life...

Certainly, I could get into a much more complex break down of actual musical structure in these albums etc, but the main idea is that the early eras of these bands indicate a deep artistic sense..

Is the reason why these albums are ignored is because of the drama and feces these bands have launched into past their third albums?

I actually still own Dusk And Her Embrace...  Its a cool album, i've always loved the atmosphere of the album, and now it reminds me of my younger years, so i keep it around for a nice listening experience once in awhile.

I hate to sound like some elitist asshole, but really For All Tid was Dimmu's only interesting experience. Stormblast (the original) was alright. but plagued with problems.

I checked out For All Tid and Stormblast recently, but found them extremely boring. I don't think they are classic releases by any means.

source: http://www.anus.com/metal/about/zine/ - issue # 4

Cradle of Filth - Dusk and her Embrace

" Oddly reminiscent of CNN wartime coverage, this album makes a grand
presentation of what is essentially the same old warmed over hard
rock/metal, and in doing so destroys all of those things which it
embraces in its aesthetic. There's a great aping of Romanticism in
dark metal bands and attention spent to introducing and the staging
of introduction of changes in appearance, but is there anything
behind it? Good foot-tapping versions of Iron Maiden-esque metal
song ideas, given a frosting of black metal vocals and whipping
drums, makes for a trivial listen and has nowhere to go with its
"angst" but self-pity, in which it wallows. These musicians are
talented and sharp - they know the biggest market is the horde of
people with short attention spans and therefore pander to them; for
that I don't blame them. However, I want nothing to do with this
dishonest band or their whorish, moronic crap music. "

 To me this band was never a Black Metal band although it superficially sounded like one; it also suspiciously was appealing mostly to people that did not take Metal as passionately and seriously as I did.  Although back then I couldn't pin-point exactly what was "wrong" about this band, it always felt like watching a sit-com, entertaning for 30 minutes but then it had me wondering if I could've used my time in a better way like bench pressing or listening to early Ancient or early Sacramentum.   

The first two Dimmu Borgir albums are great with a grain of salt, better than anything by Satyricon or later Burzum. Cradle of Filth is about as relevant to black metal as Lionel Richie.

I think Dusk and Her Embrace is fantastic, probably because I'm English.  Damien Gregori leaving Cradle of Filth marked the end of that band's production of respectable music.  Cruelty is an average album, Midian is absolutely terrible.  The Principle of Evil Made Flesh and Vempire are good at times, though they aren't as fully formed as Dusk (which I still think is lacking in a lot of areas, though it's brilliant despite this).

Inn i evighetens mørke is my favourite Dimmu Borgir material, though Stormblåst has some awesome moments which are then spoiled by the occasional very bad riff.

...it also suspiciously was appealing mostly to people that did not take Metal as passionately and seriously as I did.    

I have been into proper Metal since the early 80's, and though it sounds perhaps simplistic, the above statement can serve as a sort of unofficial litmus-test for what often is, and is not quality Metal. There are exceptions, but as I think of it now, going back to Metal's heyday of the mid-80's even, this almost invaiably proved true - the more popular a band was with the "fairweather," casual or recently initiated Metal crowd, the greater the liklihood it was sub-par, if not outright crap.

It may seen obvious now, but back when it was much tougher to come by music period, it wasn't always so easy to sepatare the wheat from the chaff immediately. This, "so what does my sister who loves Bon Jovi and Guns and Roses think about this" test was pretty accurate for determining what was worth pursuing, purchasing, hanging onto etc.

I must admit I always had a weak spot for Cradle. I would almost say that it's something nostalgic, because I knew them earlier then Darkthrone. On the other hand I knew dimmu and p-antera even before them, I liked dimmu only at the time and p-antera... never cared about these guys.

With bands too concerned with their image like CoF and DB, I refuse to waste my time with them. My time is too precious to waste on something trying to be something that it isn't. I barely waste my time with metal nowadays anyway.

Neither of these bands has ever really held appeal for me. Rather listen to something more worthwhile.

You guys are being too nice, so I guess I get to be the token grumpy grump.  These bands are useless.  The first two Dimmu albums are C+ at best, and the rest of the two catelogs will result in brain damage.  Listen to whatever you like (we're all suceptible to nostalgia), but don't pretend it's good, especially not here.

This thread inspired me to take a another listen to these early Cradle of FIlth recordings, which I have ignored for many years.  I was astonished to find I actually enjoyed them greatly, beyond a merely nostalgic walk down memory lane.  While definitely overblown and cheesy at times, this early work sounds genuine and not merely intended to cash in on the mindless herds as the review above suggested.  "Dusk...and her Embrace" is a far cry from the dumbed down material that appeals to such folk.  I am now convinced that it is the horrid material they have been releasing recently and their obsession with image that has poisoned the impression of their early work, despite the fact it has merit and showed there was potential in a "gothic" direction in black metal.  WIth "Cruelty and the Beast" the definite shift towards blackened rock and roll can be heard and marked the decline to what they are now.

This thread inspired me to take a look at "Dusk... And Her Embrace".... This shit is downright fucking awful.

The second Dimmu Borgir is a legitimately good album, despite the somewhat cheesy aesthetic. Their first one is a bit underdeveloped and boring, and their debut EP is even lower on the evolutionary chain than that. Cradle of Filth of any era holds little appeal for me. I tried downloading their first album a little while ago, and strangely enough it reminded me a bit of a gothic version of the first Massacre album, with rather obvious death metal riffs and some Kam Lee-esque screams. Listen to the two albums back to back; it's really weird. I think that their second and third albums had some semi-cool melodies on them, but it's been a pretty long time since I've listened to those particular CDs.