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Smoking pot makes you depressed for life

Re: Smoking pot makes you depressed for life
April 30, 2011, 03:11:55 AM
I disagree.  Consider a magic potion which allows you to suddenly gain inhuman strength.  You drink this potion, and lift a stone you couldn't have hoped to lift beforehand.  However, next to you is a man who doesn't have the potion, but has struggled, for a decade or more, to become as strong as he possibly can.  He, too, lifts the stone that you have just lifted, without any exterior aid, though with greater difficulty.  There's not all that much difference between exercising the body and exercising the mind - the benefits are manifold, and include not only production through action, but also growth with experience.

In my view any spiritual sort of strengths tie in intimately to the paradigm, personality and free will of any who realize them, so in other words no line can be drawn between the objective 'results' and the subjective work towards those results; the strength lies not in a given instance when you might manifest it, rather it lies in the fact that you can do it, a fact which necessitates that you've established certain modalities within your being as an individual agent of consciousness, you've structured or created yourself in a certain way. I would, for example, contrast this with most magickal powers, which can be cultivated through study, memorization and experiential practice but which don't require you to permanently structure in certain specific ways the fundamental correspondences between your emotions, desires, intentions and beliefs. To give a spiritual example, it's relatively easy to conjure up ecstatic feelings similar to drug-induced feelings, but unless there's a meaningful underpinning to it in terms of your beliefs and intentions then ultimately it's only a pleasant feeling and there's nothing transcendent or greater about it than that. In fact, as it relates somewhat in this vein I think, I would judge a person's level of enlightenment not by dissecting the contents of their highest highs but rather by disecting the contents of their lowest lows, to see if their enlightenment ever 'breaks' under certain conditions. Now anyways, I'm not saying there's anything necessarily wrong with magick, but I just want to be clear about what exactly I'm referring to. Combining the entheogenic experience with magick is a whole other kettle of fish I suppose, one I know less about, but I know enough to say it's definitely riskier, and perhaps can generate substantial gains if successful.

Re: Smoking pot makes you depressed for life
April 30, 2011, 01:59:11 PM
The magic that I've studied certainly leans more towards trance-induction with a view to enhancing human abilities and affinities, more than it is the conjuration of exterior forces for some goal (though a lot of it attempts to tie in the "creation through willpower" ideas of many New Age "philosophies").  In this way, it's not unlike the ingestion of entheogens in a "spiritual" setting (or whatever you might call it), as the aim is similar: the induction of motion of the mind/spirit/self through various states for the purpose of greater understanding of the self and the environment in which we (our minds, not our bodies) find ourselves.

no line can be drawn between the objective 'results' and the subjective work towards those results

All things are Brahman, and Brahman is One.

I totally agree with you as to how best to ascertain an individual's level of enlightenment - an army is only as fast as its slowest soldier, an individual consciousness is only as great as its lowest points.  When considering the ascetic who experiences a constant level of realisation - such that we might call "enlightenment" - this is quite easy to see.

Re: Smoking pot makes you depressed for life
April 30, 2011, 03:02:25 PM
Drugs act as triggers for chemical changes within the brain - these changes are possible without the ingestion of any substance.  One can "train" oneself to enter a similar state of mind without using an exterior catalyst.
This isn't actually true for psychedelic drugs, which by definition induce states of consciousness unattainable through any natural means.  Unlike other drugs that manipulate the body's various reward systems (including pot and ecstasy), psychedelics 'mimic' neurotransmitters and fundamentally alter the way one's brain operates, for a while.  However, you are correct theoretically with regard to the effects of any other mind altering substance.

Re: Smoking pot makes you depressed for life
April 30, 2011, 03:37:24 PM
It's hard not to be depressed knowing that on pot things were like, super cool, and now without it it's not.
With great discipline and meditation, you can achieve a sensation not dissimilar to cannabis without drugs.

Thanks for the incentive.

Re: Smoking pot makes you depressed for life
April 30, 2011, 04:42:55 PM
Drugs act as triggers for chemical changes within the brain - these changes are possible without the ingestion of any substance.  One can "train" oneself to enter a similar state of mind without using an exterior catalyst.
This isn't actually true for psychedelic drugs, which by definition induce states of consciousness unattainable through any natural means.  Unlike other drugs that manipulate the body's various reward systems (including pot and ecstasy), psychedelics 'mimic' neurotransmitters and fundamentally alter the way one's brain operates, for a while.  However, you are correct theoretically with regard to the effects of any other mind altering substance.

I have a feeling that DMT is an exception to this when it comes to psychadelics, as it's created during the brain's normal functioning, thus it should be within the power of humans to ramp up its production (somehow, don't ask me).  However, you're probably right when it comes to most psychadelic drugs (LSD, Psilocybin, Salvinorin, Mescaline, probably wouldn't want to try anything else).  I was thinking more along the cannabis/MDMA route, things which alter feeling/experience rather than perception itself.  The latter are more "behind" experience than in it, if that makes any sense.