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Why the band you know today will be forgotten tomorrow.

Reasons why 'bands' these days will be forgotten relics of popular culture, and why there hasn't been 'musical artists' in over seventy years:

1) Bands as we call them are useless and coercive units taking credit for at-least twenty people's work, including: photographers, engineers, concept artists, management, and costume designers. They in fact lie by appearing to be the 'artists' when they are simply the trappings of the artists behind them, just as 'Peter Jackson' takes credit for Lord of the Rings, when he is 2% of those films.

2) Bands as we call them are more of a communal routine, that is, the work of five people mixing ideas together -- they aren't individuals, they aren't singular expressions.

3) From the beginning bands have attempted to become commodities as opposed to art; they look to impress the masses (or vagina's). The whole idea of a concert is to ply for the attention of the crowd, yet unlike a film theater the artists are at the whim of the mob, whereas cinema is fixed onto a screen.

4) No one will care about Pink Frothy AIDS in 50 years, and if they do, they will be a laughingstock.

5) Most bands are formed out of insecurity. Since a person doesn't feel content with him or herself, he looks to fill the gap with other musicians, she dreams of being admired, because she cannot admire himself..

6) Early Burzum may be the only music remembered because it negates most of those categories and mixes philosophy with music (like Wagner).

I have a feeling that a lot of Metal is written by one person per band, two at most.  Slayer and Mayhem are good examples.

I have a feeling that a lot of Metal is written by one person per band, two at most.  Slayer and Mayhem are good examples.
Guitar composition, and than the rest follow? Like Euronymous on De Mysteriis... or? Still, what you're talking about composes a slim slice of the final product. If a band to you is solely guitar riffs, then sure, I can respect that, but I doubt as a human that your mind thinks like this... You could be lying to yourself to repress the unconscious sentiment anyways..

Agreed.

This is why ANUS makes a point of emphasizing good music, not the people that made it.

I have a feeling that a lot of Metal is written by one person per band, two at most.  Slayer and Mayhem are good examples.
Guitar composition, and than the rest follow? Like Euronymous on De Mysteriis... or? Still, what you're talking about composes a slim slice of the final product. If a band to you is solely guitar riffs, then sure, I can respect that, but I doubt as a human that your mind thinks like this... You could be lying to yourself to repress the unconscious sentiment anyways..

With the vast majority of my musical projects, I do absolutely everything, except producing the media onto which the music goes (CDs, tapes, mp3/FLAC codecs, whatever).  This is how things are in the "Underground" in Metal, and this is how it's always been.  I simply don't see how your first post applies to anything beyond the most awful of modern music.

Maybe I don't get it because I did all of this shit myself from the get go, and so find it to be "normal".  I seriously don't understand your point about "photographers, engineers, concept artists, management, and costume designers", because every band I know has none of these.  Every single Metal musician I've ever met has done their own photography, their own sound production/mixing, their own concepts ("concept artists"? huh?), and their own "costumes", as well as their own inlays, merchandise, or whatever, and payed for by their own money, a lot of which was made through their own gigs which they put on themselves.  They'll still likely be forgotten in five to ten years, but for an entirely different reason: it's a hobby, not a calling, for a lot of them.  They won't be remembered because they're just having fun, and aren't being uncompromisingly serious about the whole thing, which is what it takes (Burzum, Summoning, Bach) to make quality music.

The fact that Euronymous didn't physically execute every sound on De Mysteriis I think is irrelevant, in the same way that classical composers don't play every instrument.

I think it is possible to get a unified concept with two people involved if they have the same vision. Three people is certainly pushing it though, and I've never seen it work. Xytras and Vorphalack are a good example, as are Fenriz and Nocturno Culto. With these guys, session musicians are just a means to an end.

The purpose of most good bands is simply in the development of the genre. You don't expect most of anything (including early and classical music) to be memorable; rather, there will be a few examples of Greatness which all that came before was leading up to. The Eternal doesn't form overnight.

Quote
With the vast majority of my musical projects, I do absolutely everything, except producing the media onto which the music goes (CDs, tapes, mp3/FLAC codecs, whatever).  This is how things are in the "Underground" in Metal, and this is how it's always been.  I simply don't see how your first post applies to anything beyond the most awful of modern music.

Maybe I don't get it because I did all of this shit myself from the get go, and so find it to be "normal".  I seriously don't understand your point about "photographers, engineers, concept artists, management, and costume designers", because every band I know has none of these.  Every single Metal musician I've ever met has done their own photography, their own sound production/mixing, their own concepts ("concept artists"? huh?), and their own "costumes", as well as their own inlays, merchandise, or whatever, and payed for by their own money, a lot of which was made through their own gigs which they put on themselves.  They'll still likely be forgotten in five to ten years, but for an entirely different reason: it's a hobby, not a calling, for a lot of them.  They won't be remembered because they're just having fun, and aren't being uncompromisingly serious about the whole thing, which is what it takes (Burzum, Summoning, Bach) to make quality music.
I haven't seen or heard your product in its entire album form, so I can't say whether it's in league with something like Hvis Lysett. While what you profess seems to match my criteria, if your product is anything below the mentioned album, then it's simply (as you've said) a hobby, not art.

Here's what it took to create In the Nightside Eclipse:
Quote
Recorded during the seventh full moon anno 1993 at Krieghallen Studios
Mixed winter anno 1994
Produced by Emperor & Pytten

Music composed by Samoth & Ihsahn. **keyboards: Mortiis, drums: Faust, bass: Tchort
Lyrics by Samoth, Ihsahn & Mortiis ('I am the Black Wizards' & 'Cosmic Keys...')
Front cover logo by Necrolord. Logo by Christophe Szpajdel.
"Telemark" photo by Johan Brun. "Transylvanian Ruins" photo by Vamosi Tamas.
"Demongate" photo by Marco Depalno.
Frames by Frost. Typesetting by Nodnol Tohder.

In memory of Euronymous (1968-1993)

This is probably what they were 'required' to print, not to mention produced by Emperor means they simply blabbed to the engineer what they were looking for, and he produced their 'concept'.  Who knows the mass amount of PR executives and even marketers that are not mentioned.

The purpose of most good bands is simply in the development of the genre. You don't expect most of anything (including early and classical music) to be memorable; rather, there will be a few examples of Greatness which all that came before was leading up to. The Eternal doesn't form overnight.

What we hold as 'eternal' are false idols. These marble statues have only avoided smashing because of our paltry criteria.

This is a rather stupid topic altogether, if you ask me. I'm not saying this in defense of heavy metal music, as its quality or lack thereof defends itself, but because this process of composition, editing, arrangement, production and distribution has been the norm in music since the 18th century.

Also, I only hold to be eternal what truly is eternal, and what truly is eternal must be so, otherwise consciousness would be fundamentally different.

Here's what it took to create In the Nightside Eclipse:
Quote
Music composed by Samoth & Ihsahn.

I fixed this for you.

Quote
With the vast majority of my musical projects, I do absolutely everything, except producing the media onto which the music goes (CDs, tapes, mp3/FLAC codecs, whatever).  This is how things are in the "Underground" in Metal, and this is how it's always been.  I simply don't see how your first post applies to anything beyond the most awful of modern music.

Maybe I don't get it because I did all of this shit myself from the get go, and so find it to be "normal".  I seriously don't understand your point about "photographers, engineers, concept artists, management, and costume designers", because every band I know has none of these.  Every single Metal musician I've ever met has done their own photography, their own sound production/mixing, their own concepts ("concept artists"? huh?), and their own "costumes", as well as their own inlays, merchandise, or whatever, and payed for by their own money, a lot of which was made through their own gigs which they put on themselves.  They'll still likely be forgotten in five to ten years, but for an entirely different reason: it's a hobby, not a calling, for a lot of them.  They won't be remembered because they're just having fun, and aren't being uncompromisingly serious about the whole thing, which is what it takes (Burzum, Summoning, Bach) to make quality music.
I haven't seen or heard your product in its entire album form, so I can't say whether it's in league with something like Hvis Lysett. While what you profess seems to match my criteria, if your product is anything below the mentioned album, then it's simply (as you've said) a hobby, not art.

Here's what it took to create In the Nightside Eclipse:
Quote
Recorded during the seventh full moon anno 1993 at Krieghallen Studios
Mixed winter anno 1994
Produced by Emperor & Pytten

Music composed by Samoth & Ihsahn. **keyboards: Mortiis, drums: Faust, bass: Tchort
Lyrics by Samoth, Ihsahn & Mortiis ('I am the Black Wizards' & 'Cosmic Keys...')
Front cover logo by Necrolord. Logo by Christophe Szpajdel.
"Telemark" photo by Johan Brun. "Transylvanian Ruins" photo by Vamosi Tamas.
"Demongate" photo by Marco Depalno.
Frames by Frost. Typesetting by Nodnol Tohder.

In memory of Euronymous (1968-1993)

This is probably what they were 'required' to print, not to mention produced by Emperor means they simply blabbed to the engineer what they were looking for, and he produced their 'concept'.  Who knows the mass amount of PR executives and even marketers that are not mentioned.

The purpose of most good bands is simply in the development of the genre. You don't expect most of anything (including early and classical music) to be memorable; rather, there will be a few examples of Greatness which all that came before was leading up to. The Eternal doesn't form overnight.

What we hold as 'eternal' are false idols. These marble statues have only avoided smashing because of our paltry criteria.

I appreciate the point you're trying to make, it's nice to give things like this some thought, but I do think you're exaggerating. After all Burzum's very bandname was derived from someone else's work (Tolkien) and he didn't draw his own album covers either, nor did he produce his own work, nor could he even draw an original bandlogo. It would be far more interesting to examine the motivations and inspirations behind the music instead of nitpicking which band is 101% original (because that would be none)

Do I really need to point out this and this and this?

I do think that underneath the surface there's a noticeable difference between art that is made by one man and art that is made by a group of people. Art made by a single person seems to be more linear. But which is better: one man doing everything himself or a group of people working together? Both can either require a great deal of effort or can be the product of laziness.

Art should be able to stand on itself and not have to lean on any other external argument. That means you listen to the music and you either find beauty and meaning in it or you don't. Who did what should only be a background story for those interested in learning the history of the said work of art. If Limp Bizkit was a one-man band would that make their music any better? What about the countless forgettable one-man BM bands? You are overrating the concept of DIY and giving Burzum more credit than he deserves.

Behold true art:
http://youtu.be/uXMuWi0dUBc

(sorry but I couldn't resists)

1) Statement seems to imply that because there are multiple people behind the work, the work is more likely to be forgotten or to be transient.

There are plenty of examples this idea takes for granted, not to mention the possibility that some of the Greats were only remembered with the help of societal circumstances.

2) Sort of the same idea as 1.) ...The Brothers Grimm and Shakespeare come to mind. Maybe there are better examples...

il messaggero non e importante
May 15, 2011, 09:23:21 AM
Quote from: ubmrage
Do I really need to point out this and this and this?

And the new generation, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V86VfXxSec.

And yet there are still past crap musicians respected today.