This is what metal is up against

[Anthem364]

Good music, my friend. Some of them do need work, but all's well.

[Consvming Impvlse]

Has to be a joke, Slipknot were not prior.

That doesn't make any difference. The industry builds its pecking order in terms of who sells the most, not who has been around the longest.

[chrstphrbnntt]

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/1677/1216285788547tc0.jpg

relevant to this thread.

Has to be a joke, Slipknot were not prior.

It is a joke. The band has a sense of humor.

[Adam]

I will admit that Nile's early stuff was a decent Liers In Wait rip-off. I dig Nevermore alot. Great band. No discussion. Rest is shit.

[Devamitra]

I dig Nevermore alot. Great band. No discussion.

I've been trying to get into Nevermore for a long time because I love Sanctuary. The "modern metal" feeling somehow just doesn't do it for me though.

[Andrew]

Nevermore isn't great but they are good enough to not be grouped in with the rest of those bands.

[Deadbirds]

Kalmah's first three albums were great in my opinion, as well as most of Decapitated's work.

But even the rest of those don't deserve to be grouped with Avenged Sevenfold.

[Andrew]

I don't recognize a lot of them, but I know Dragonforce definitely deserves it, there are probably others too, and kalmah is not very good.

[beyond_godlike]

I didn't know so many people liked Nevermore. Personally I think that they're music isn't very creative, in terms of notes and stuff. However, I cannot praise their singer enough. He's bringing skill in singing back into metal. I also find extremely amusing that most people don't like this band specifically because of their singer; most people just want more of the same. I think his singing is being wasted in this group. However I don't think the band is too bad; I enjoy it in small amounts. They produce an excellent atmosphere in their music that hasn't been done by thousand of bands before. This is the kind of thing I was praising about this particular list. Most bands in that list, that I've heard of, have some sort of innovation which brings something new and interesting to modern metal. There is something that I don't think I made clear: none of these bands are particularly good. I was just saying that some are a step in the right direction. I did not realize that just because I complimented some of these bands that eventually people would start praising Dragonforce.

[Andrew]

Nobody was really praising them, if you misunderstood me I was saying they are one example that does deserve to be in the same list as Avenged Sevenfold.  Also I totally agree with you about Nevermore's vocalist, without a doubt the best aspect of that band.

[chb]

technical numetal band

Fitting description. They are much less annyoing than SYL, though. This Godless Endeavour really is better than all their other albums and a good listen if Heavy/Speed Metal with a modern sound and lots of (good) solos sounds appealing to you.

[Arctic Sun]

I like the idea of identifying useful parts that are trapped in a system that ought to be overhauled or scrapped, but in this case I think the unspoken message of the original quote is a lot more telling than potential exceptions to the more obvious one.

Besides, if there is something genuinely interesting to say about Nevermore, Nile, ect. then the chit chat could probably be elevated to the level of discussion in another topic.  For example:

Reflections on Undernoticed Classics or Metal Future

[Ergriefer]

That whole list sucks, unfortunately.  And since it represents the reality of Metal's present status, to the world this list IS Metal circa 2008.  What does this tell us about ourselves? 

A scan over the list would reveal the values of the contemporary semi-commercial Metal musician.  His instincts drive him to make gay videos (and by "gay" i mean anything other than a concert bootleg).  Album by album, he must sacrifice a portion of his original metal soul, to be replaced with more "commercial rock" appeal, grasping for his wider, more generalized audience.  He is obsessed by image, and will do anything up to & including prostitution to fulfill his bizarre hero image of what a Metal star "should" be.  His primary goal is to appear Extreme, but since his psyche is absorbed by the creeping middle-class self-obsessed materialism, he must grasp at whatever straws he can find on the street towards his supposedly extreme statement of self.  He gets tattoos.  He does any drugs he can find because he's usually paid in drugs.  He wants to be a crusader for something, but lacking a cohesive philosophy and political worldview for himself (beyond his desires for instant satisfaction), the best he can come up with is to emulate a sexually repressed hobo junky. 

The artist is free to do this, because the wonders of digital recording technology enable him to grow mentally incompetent over the years of plenty, but still leave the studio with some sort of studio-quality music each time.  Modern metal often has a Nintendo, 8-bit feel to it sometimes; it's quite possible that this may be due to the interlocking nature of digital audio and multimedia software.

[Devamitra]

He is obsessed by image, and will do anything up to & including prostitution to fulfill his bizarre hero image of what a Metal star "should" be.  His primary goal is to appear Extreme, but since his psyche is absorbed by the creeping middle-class self-obsessed materialism, he must grasp at whatever straws he can find on the street towards his supposedly extreme statement of self.  He gets tattoos.  He does any drugs he can find because he's usually paid in drugs.  He wants to be a crusader for something, but lacking a cohesive philosophy and political worldview for himself (beyond his desires for instant satisfaction), the best he can come up with is to emulate a sexually repressed hobo junky. 

Otherwise a fine generalization for modern metal, but does not apply very well to the bands I know (about half) from the above list. Those I am familiar with are professional or semi-professional musicians, obsessed with their instruments and production techniques, not rock lifestyle, extreme appearance, drugs, etc.

[Ergriefer]

i have seen it first hand from some of the people on that list, but i'm not a muckraker. 

and really this behavior is more of a reaction to pressures closing in on the underground world than anything at the individual level.  of course metal musicians don't have to look like overgrown teenagers, but they risk losing "credibility" if they do.  many of them hate the idea of their music being turned into mass-produced cheez-whiz, but that's the only way they're going to pay their rent.

i had to eat dinner last night, so i didn't really get a chance to say what i was getting at.  the first thing i have to say is that those who were pissed over that list probably don't know much about metal, especially what's covered on a site like anus.com.  secondly, maybe it's time we called "our" kind of music by a different name.  something that reflects our core values and their divergence from the plastic materialism.  i mean, is it really fair to lump Paysage D'hiver in the same category as Slipknot?