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"The poor": kill them

Re: "The poor": kill them
November 24, 2011, 10:34:48 AM
Only a bear? Not a whale then.

I see no wrong in empathy or compassion where required, which is not necessarily in every instance.

About Gandhi and whoever said he had no spirit: he had enough spirit to stick to his convictions, whether you personally agree with them or not, resist forces far beyond our knowledge for decades longer than you or I have lived on this benighted planet and bring about enormous, continent or even world-wide change through force of personal will alone. So, easy on the bullshit, however much you may disagree.

Re: "The poor": kill them
November 24, 2011, 07:25:54 PM
Only a bear? Not a whale then.

I forgot to mention, it was a whale-bear!

I never really liked Gandhi, I much prefer my Indian warriors to be Kukri wielding towers of death.

Re: "The poor": kill them
November 26, 2011, 06:52:16 PM
Why would he need to provide scientific evidence to make a statement that begins with "I doubt"? If you're questioning the putridity of fast food, check this out:

He wasn't questioning the quality of the food but rather the argument that bad food causes poverty. More likely, the brick dumb are they who readily blow any income on trash that fails to serve anything but their most immediate impulses. The concept of investment and the impulse control required for implementing long term planning, which includes investing alternatively in a consistently quality diet rather than junk food, is forever lost to them, hence they remain poor.

Re: "The poor": kill them
November 29, 2011, 11:11:03 PM
Why would he need to provide scientific evidence to make a statement that begins with "I doubt"? If you're questioning the putridity of fast food, check this out:

He wasn't questioning the quality of the food but rather the argument that bad food causes poverty. More likely, the brick dumb are they who readily blow any income on trash that fails to serve anything but their most immediate impulses. The concept of investment and the impulse control required for implementing long term planning, which includes investing alternatively in a consistently quality diet rather than junk food, is forever lost to them, hence they remain poor.

Exactly.  It's cheaper to live on a moderately healthy diet than junk food if you have enough basic intelligence to plan what you're going to eat.

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 02, 2011, 07:56:19 PM
Kill them? Ah, but six billion carcasses are a vast resource. Options:

1. Cold storage fattest kills then dole out portions as needed for protein supplement
2. Mulch the rest into fertilizer toward global reforestation
3. Skulls, teeth and finger bones as valuable collector's items from the Cleansing Age

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 02, 2011, 10:45:21 PM
Kill them? Ah, but six billion carcasses are a vast resource. Options:

1. Cold storage fattest kills then dole out portions as needed for protein supplement
2. Mulch the rest into fertilizer toward global reforestation
3. Skulls, teeth and finger bones as valuable collector's items from the Cleansing Age

Can we slowly starve a few of the fattest humans we find, but force them to wear their XXXL McDonald's shirts the entire time up until we bury their emaciated corpses in a mass grave?

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 03, 2011, 09:25:23 AM
Compassion is a non-sequitur.

If you want to fix humanity:


1. Segregate the ethnic groups -- nationalism is a stronger principle than politics, which is all they have to unite them otherwise.
2.  IQ test everyone. Under-120s get shown the door. You now have 20% of your population (for Caucasians, about 25% for Asians and 5% for Negroes/Mexicans/South Asians/Arabs).
3. Abolish your police force.
4. Take your best people (health, intelligence, character) and make them
 (a) Knights who administer society
 (b) Covert spies who have no official role
5. The Knights run a noble society
6. The spies peer around and find the people of degraded character (criminals, perverts, liars, passive aggressives, bullies, thugs, jerks, creeps) and make them silently disappear.
7. Make a caste system by ability and make it hereditary to bring stability to society

Natural selection returns as does social balance.

The poor would mostly be eradicated under the under-120 rule. Your asshole politicians, bankers, etc. under rule 6. But not all of either group. You would preserve the best and throw out the rest.

The only reason society does not follow this path is the pretense of individuals. They don't want to be seen as socially offensive, not because of fear, but because they want to use idiots as their own stepping stones. Never mind that this is a self-defeating strategy, since it makes idiots essential.

Then again, after the purging above, very few of such dangerous idiots would exist.

Phoenix

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 04, 2011, 11:18:26 AM
Compassion is a non-sequitur.

If you want to fix humanity:


1. Segregate the ethnic groups -- nationalism is a stronger principle than politics, which is all they have to unite them otherwise.
2.  IQ test everyone. Under-120s get shown the door. You now have 20% of your population (for Caucasians, about 25% for Asians and 5% for Negroes/Mexicans/South Asians/Arabs).
3. Abolish your police force.
4. Take your best people (health, intelligence, character) and make them
 (a) Knights who administer society
 (b) Covert spies who have no official role
5. The Knights run a noble society
6. The spies peer around and find the people of degraded character (criminals, perverts, liars, passive aggressives, bullies, thugs, jerks, creeps) and make them silently disappear.
7. Make a caste system by ability and make it hereditary to bring stability to society

Natural selection returns as does social balance.

The poor would mostly be eradicated under the under-120 rule. Your asshole politicians, bankers, etc. under rule 6. But not all of either group. You would preserve the best and throw out the rest.

The only reason society does not follow this path is the pretense of individuals. They don't want to be seen as socially offensive, not because of fear, but because they want to use idiots as their own stepping stones. Never mind that this is a self-defeating strategy, since it makes idiots essential.

Then again, after the purging above, very few of such dangerous idiots would exist.

Why would you want to fix humanity if not out of compassion??

If you're talking about wanting to create an elite community, I think compassion is still at work if you want it out of a sense of brotherhood, on the other hand if deep down on some repressed level you're just fantasizing about ruling that community with an iron fist or proving yourself to that community, then congratulations you're totally self-centered.

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 04, 2011, 11:27:44 AM
Having a sense of community is a nice side effect, not a goal. Ditto for other helpful false goal side effects like liberty and justice. Better people sustainably gets us all the beneficial side effects.

Phoenix

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 04, 2011, 11:46:20 AM
Having a sense of community is a nice side effect, not a goal. Ditto for other helpful false goal side effects like liberty and justice. Better people sustainably gets us all the beneficial side effects.

Wouldn't a sustainable civilization and planet benefit your grandchildren on the back of your blood, sweat and tears?

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 04, 2011, 06:06:40 PM
Compassion is a non-sequitur.

If you want to fix humanity:


1. Segregate the ethnic groups -- nationalism is a stronger principle than politics, which is all they have to unite them otherwise.
2.  IQ test everyone. Under-120s get shown the door. You now have 20% of your population (for Caucasians, about 25% for Asians and 5% for Negroes/Mexicans/South Asians/Arabs).
3. Abolish your police force.
4. Take your best people (health, intelligence, character) and make them
 (a) Knights who administer society
 (b) Covert spies who have no official role
5. The Knights run a noble society
6. The spies peer around and find the people of degraded character (criminals, perverts, liars, passive aggressives, bullies, thugs, jerks, creeps) and make them silently disappear.
7. Make a caste system by ability and make it hereditary to bring stability to society

Natural selection returns as does social balance.

The poor would mostly be eradicated under the under-120 rule. Your asshole politicians, bankers, etc. under rule 6. But not all of either group. You would preserve the best and throw out the rest.

The only reason society does not follow this path is the pretense of individuals. They don't want to be seen as socially offensive, not because of fear, but because they want to use idiots as their own stepping stones. Never mind that this is a self-defeating strategy, since it makes idiots essential.

Then again, after the purging above, very few of such dangerous idiots would exist.

Why would you want to fix humanity if not out of compassion??

Can you not conceive of any other motivation that a person might have?  Great works of art are created not out of compassion for wretched humanity, but by striving towards an ideal.


Re: "The poor": kill them
December 04, 2011, 09:54:37 PM
Compassion is a non-sequitur.
...
The only reason society does not follow this path is the pretense of individuals. They don't want to be seen as socially offensive, not because of fear, but because they want to use idiots as their own stepping stones.

I think I'm going to go with Haidt, a scientist versed in modern psychology and cognitive science who offers a credible, empricially backed evolutionary by-product interpretation of compassion, as opposed to an armchar 'theory' which stems from some quasi nietzschean/psychoanaltic theory of slave morality.

http://www.ted.com/talks/jonathan_haidt_on_the_moral_mind.html

Does compassion for others stem from a devoted cognitive module which evolved to respond to perceptions of kin suffering, where the suffering of non-kin members just happens, accidently, to meet the input criteria of this module and thereby activate it, producing something like 'empathy'? Or does compassion stem from a 120 year old theory of 'slave morality' given by a philosopher? Let nihilism inform your choice people.

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 04, 2011, 10:14:24 PM
Does compassion for others stem from a devoted cognitive module which evolved to respond to perceptions of kin suffering, where the suffering of non-kin members just happens, accidently, to meet the input criteria of this module and thereby activate it, producing something like 'empathy'?

When you describe empathy for non-kin members being the result of similar "input criteria", this leaves room to question whether or not these accidental correlations have the same intended benefit of the "evolutionary by-product interpretation of compassion" you mentioned. The way we respond to these "accidents" likely stems from social forces, thus appropriating a philosophical examination of the subject.

That being said, I would keep in mind how kinship ties differ in localized vs globalized communities, and how compassion is really only beneficial when it's sphere of influence doesn't extend beyond that which it can actually sustain / protect / serve.

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 04, 2011, 10:54:49 PM
That being said, I would keep in mind how kinship ties differ in localized vs globalized communities, and how compassion is really only beneficial when it's sphere of influence doesn't extend beyond that which it can actually sustain / protect / serve.

For sure. Reflective cogniton can often modifly implicit processing with practice and under the right circumstances, such as eye-openining information on how futile compassion might be for poverty in africa, for instance. Or debunking information on the (evolutionary) source of compassion, etc.

Re: "The poor": kill them
December 05, 2011, 01:44:51 PM
Why would you want to fix humanity if not out of compassion??

Valid question.

My answer: opportunity.

We have a chance here to have a sentient species that explores the stars. There is no reason not to take advantage of that opportunity. It's a chance for beautiful, awesome, exciting, interesting and creative things to happen.