Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

How all liberals should be dealt with

How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 04:13:23 PM
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/aceh-punks-arrested-for-re-education/484549

"cehnese punks participated in the "Street Punk" charity concert held at the Cultural Park, Banda Aceh, on Saturday. On Tuesday dozens of young people were being held and punished by Aceh police for the supposed crime of being 'punk,' despite not being charged with any crime nor being brought before a court. "











"59 male and five female punk rock fans have been forced to have their hair cut, bathe in a lake, change clothes and pray."



Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 05:52:36 PM
Those pesky black metalling Nordics should also have been thrown shaven-headed into a river. Or do you trust a totalitarian intolerant elite to share your nebulous distinctions at all times?

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 06:08:22 PM
Being punished with no trial?  Being punished for having non-correct ideas that threaten the state?  Sounds like nanny-state.  Liberals would be in favor of this.

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 06:51:59 PM
Being punished with no trial?  Being punished for having non-correct ideas that threaten the state?  Sounds like nanny-state.  Liberals would be in favor of this.

Liberals would be totally against this. I have no idea where you are getting this from. Liberals like people like this who ~*express themselves*~


The truth is, these people are probably manifestations of everything wrong with modernity. They see youth who are brainwashed into thinking things like anarchy and various other left-wing causes are worthwhile concepts. They do not want such things spreading within their culture. Nip it in the bud.

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 07:18:16 PM
I almost don't feel like explaining this, because this is stuff you have to learn from experience, but here goes:

Liberals for the most parts, and people who support them might say all view points are valid, but some view points like racism and homophobia are harmful, and anyone who expresses these ideas should be stopped so as not to corrupt the children.  This sounds pretty good to a liberal, and I'm certainly not going to feel sorry for those with idioitic ideas.

But then you see you are opening the door for these people to decide what is harmful to the state.  What ideas don't fit into our happy world of equality.  Maybe next it will be people who oppose anyone who  has ever fought for civil rights.  Maybe then it will be someone who opposes the idea that the government should decide what is a good thought or not.  It''s a slippery slope that liberals, or at least those who pander to them, are totally in favor of.

What political party was it that was responsible for those advisory labels on your CDs now?  Make sense yet?

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 07:59:04 PM
I almost don't feel like explaining this, because this is stuff you have to learn from experience, but here goes:

Liberals for the most parts, and people who support them might say all view points are valid, but some view points like racism and homophobia are harmful, and anyone who expresses these ideas should be stopped so as not to corrupt the children.  This sounds pretty good to a liberal, and I'm certainly not going to feel sorry for those with idioitic ideas.

But then you see you are opening the door for these people to decide what is harmful to the state.  What ideas don't fit into our happy world of equality.  Maybe next it will be people who oppose anyone who  has ever fought for civil rights.  Maybe then it will be someone who opposes the idea that the government should decide what is a good thought or not.  It''s a slippery slope that liberals, or at least those who pander to them, are totally in favor of.

What political party was it that was responsible for those advisory labels on your CDs now?  Make sense yet?

We come to a crossroads, though. Either we let cultural erosion happen and do nothing to prevent it so we can sit in our homes and smile to ourselves that we treated people with "kindness", or we confront the leftist tide that is rising. These aren't easy decisions, but the first step towards rooting modern delusion out is to bring a consensus of what is right and what is wrong. What we do not want in our communities and what we want to help grow. I am all for communities banishing people with leftist ideas such as anarchy, equality, and rainbow-feel-good illusions that eventually destroy them from within.

You want to bring about a leftist/Marxist anarchy? Fine, but have fun doing it in a tundra.

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 08:32:41 PM
We come to a crossroads, though.

No, we don't. Fortunately, humanity cannot be kept in stasis to resemble what you personally happen to think as a non-degradeable ideal. I get the feeling that beyond ANUS-friendly platitudes (which here will go unchallenged) you've no idea what you're actually talking about.



We really do. I'm not aiming for some sort of "ideal world" in stasis or some Utopia. That is simply not possible. What I do think should happen is a direct challenging of leftism.

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 08:36:47 PM
We come to a crossroads, though. Either we let cultural erosion happen and do nothing to prevent it so we can sit in our homes and smile to ourselves that we treated people with "kindness", or we confront the leftist tide that is rising. These aren't easy decisions, but the first step towards rooting modern delusion out is to bring a consensus of what is right and what is wrong. What we do not want in our communities and what we want to help grow. I am all for communities banishing people with leftist ideas such as anarchy, equality, and rainbow-feel-good illusions that eventually destroy them from within.

You want to bring about a leftist/Marxist anarchy? Fine, but have fun doing it in a tundra.

Yes, I believe there is one ideal, as well.  Problem is, I don't believe some popularity contest government can deliver us that ideal, and I don't think people who gain power by promising the most advantage to people in exchange for votes have any business deciding what that one ideal is. I don't think having cops swarm the streets and making sure kids are listening to the right kind of music is a good idea either.  People should defend their own neighborhoods, at least until some kind of reasonable and stable system of values is established.

And on a final note, punks aren't even liberals.  They are the youth who realize that this society is failing, but they have chose the wrong people to be angry at.  If they looked at the way things were put together, they could decifer who they should really be taking their anger out on.

And they brought us Slayer, so let 'em dress like idiots.  They aren't hurting me with their shitty clothes.

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 01, 2012, 08:52:19 PM
We come to a crossroads, though. Either we let cultural erosion happen and do nothing to prevent it so we can sit in our homes and smile to ourselves that we treated people with "kindness", or we confront the leftist tide that is rising. These aren't easy decisions, but the first step towards rooting modern delusion out is to bring a consensus of what is right and what is wrong. What we do not want in our communities and what we want to help grow. I am all for communities banishing people with leftist ideas such as anarchy, equality, and rainbow-feel-good illusions that eventually destroy them from within.

You want to bring about a leftist/Marxist anarchy? Fine, but have fun doing it in a tundra.

I am not an anarchist, I am a traditionalist.  The two resemble eachother in some places when you look at method, but they are not the same in the end.  Actually I'd be quicker to be an aristocratic monarchist sooner than anything else.

But enough about me.  Yes, I belive there is one ideal, as well.  Problem is, I don't believe some popularity contest government can deliver us that ideal, and I don't think people who gain power by promising the most advantage to people in exchange for votes have any business deciding what that one ideal is. I don't think having cops swarm the streets and making sure kids are listening to the right kind of music is a good idea either.  People should defend their own neighborhoods, at least until some kind of reasonable and stable system of values is established.

And on a final note, punks aren't even liberals.  They are the youth who realize that this society is failing, but they have chose the wrong people to be angry at.  If they looked at the way things were put together, they could decifer who they should really be taking their anger out on.

And they brought us Slayer, so let 'em dress like idiots.  They aren't hurting me with their shitty clothes.

Yes, communities should defend their values and standards I agree. I'm not advocating police swarming the streets in some sort of "big brother" situation, but more of a community based initiative. "You live here, you are expected to live by our traditions." It just so happens that in this situation the government took action first.

I disagree that punks aren't liberals (Some aren't, I know). The punk scene is almost totally submerged in leftist ideology. They are right to be angry with society, but they respond with misguided leftist ideas.

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 02, 2012, 05:45:30 AM
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/home/aceh-punks-arrested-for-re-education/484549

"cehnese punks participated in the "Street Punk" charity concert held at the Cultural Park, Banda Aceh, on Saturday. On Tuesday dozens of young people were being held and punished by Aceh police for the supposed crime of being 'punk,' despite not being charged with any crime nor being brought before a court. "

"59 male and five female punk rock fans have been forced to have their hair cut, bathe in a lake, change clothes and pray."

This is old news, I considered posting this too when I first read it. Glad to see I'm not the only one who feels this way about this.

I'm also glad to see that some people here take offense of this. Spoiled little brats who want everybody in the world to be as spoiled as they are. And their reactions are hilariously dumb!


And they brought us Slayer, so let 'em dress like idiots.  They aren't hurting me with their shitty clothes.

Yes, in 2011 Aceh punks brought us Slayer. Never mind that punk has been dead for the past 30 years or so. And what doesn't hurt you is perfectly fine of course. Except that "what doesn't hurt me is fine" is the liberal way of reasoning, it's failing to see the bigger picture. Your feelings aren't at stake here, their society and culture is.


What political party was it that was responsible for those advisory labels on your CDs now?  Make sense yet?

You're not making sense at all, you're just presenting straw man arguments by now. This thread is about Aceh punks who are forced to live according to the rules and traditions of their homeland. It would make more sense to discuss the motivation behind that. And the motivation is simple: they want to keep their culture and don't want to see it replaced with western pop-culture. Are you in favor of globalization? Then you are a liberal.

We can see in our society where liberalism has led us: to more dumb consumerism and abandonment of original culture. There wouldn't be any gangstas or chavs or emos if western society had stronger cultural values.

I admit Von List doesn't make it much easier by comparing the punks with liberals one moment and then with marxists the other moment. This isn't a simple matter of left-wing and right-wing, it's about how authoritarian you're willing to be to protect your values and culture. I don't think being marxist has anything to do with that, the western socialist interpretation of communism is an apologetic dumbed down version of it. And the average punk's interpretation of "anarchy" is some liberal hippie bullshit about everyone being equal mixed with a misguided view on environmentalism and animal rights. At least 9 out of 10 of those Aceh punks just want to party and forget themselves just like consumer culture tells you to.


Those pesky black metalling Nordics should also have been thrown shaven-headed into a river. Or do you trust a totalitarian intolerant elite to share your nebulous distinctions at all times?

Another completely ignorant post. Norwegian black metallers wanted to be hated, they wanted exactly this. The only way to keep metal outside of the mainstream is to be hated. If it takes balls to be a metalhead then all the pussies will stop being metalheads and stop making their hipster garbage version of metal. Metal should not be about just wanting to have a good time. Metal should not be party music. Metal should be REAL resistance and not some fake teenage rebellion.


Quote from: Varg Vikernes
"This prison is a joke, it's not at all the hell I was waiting. In this country, it's completely ridiculous, the prisoners have the right to a bed, private bathroom and shower. I demand the police to throw me into a dungeon and encourage them to use violence on me".

"Human beings are worthless and stupid. They're not supposed to think. They only exist to follow a god or a leader. I support all dictatorships. Stalin, Hitler, Ceausescu... and I will become the dictator of Scandinavia myself. 'Make war not love'. I hate peace and love. I'm a Viking, and the Vikings were born to fight and to kill for pleasure. We aren't some Red Cross idiots."

http://www.burzum.com/burzum/library/articles/expresso/


Quote from: Euronymous
"I openly admit that I am a Stalinist and I'm very fascinated by extreme countries like Albania and Rumania in the good old days. I have thought about quitting from the communist party though, but this is just because they are not brutal enough any more."

"I don't think people should respect each other. I don't want to see trend people respecting me, I want them to HATE and FEAR. If people don't accept our ideas as their own, they can fuck off because then they belong to a musical scene which has NOTHING to do with ours. They could just as well be Madonna fans. There is an ABYSS between us and the rest. Remember - one of the HC rules is that you must be open-minded (except for themselves), so we must be careful and avoid being open minded ourselves."

http://www.angelfire.com/band/mayhem/euro2.html
http://www.angelfire.com/band/mayhem/euro3.html


Quote from: Sarcofago
Long hairs is not more,
a mark of the braves.
It became just a fashion,
and had lost it's anger.

http://www.lyricsdepot.com/sarcofago/shave-your-head.html

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 02, 2012, 07:56:38 AM
What political party was it that was responsible for those advisory labels on your CDs now?  Make sense yet?

You're not making sense at all, you're just presenting straw man arguments by now. This thread is about Aceh punks who are forced to live according to the rules and traditions of their homeland. It would make more sense to discuss the motivation behind that. And the motivation is simple: they want to keep their culture and don't want to see it replaced with western pop-culture. Are you in favor of globalization? Then you are a liberal.

My point was how liberals in the 80s tried to ban heavy metal, just like this government is trying to ban punk.  I thought it was funny that we were cheering on a government that tells us how to live our lives, as if we have no values of our own without them.

These punks were not kicked out because they didn't fit into the traditions of the land.  They were thrown out by a power hungry government who thought that more police equals more justice.  These police are not local shamens and neither do they do anything else to promote local tradition.  Thanks to the Indonesian government, the country has hundreds (yes hundreds) of ethnic groups and the entire function of the country is to make cell phones for Americans, and you want them to be in charge of the traditions of their land?

And how can I be a globalist, if I say people should defend their own neighborhood?  I don't think we should have anything to do with indonesia, or any other country, for that matter.

Quote from: Varg Vikernes
"Human beings are worthless and stupid. They're not supposed to think. They only exist to follow a god or a leader.

This was my favorite part.  Are you saying that you are too stupid to make decisions on your own, or does  this just apply to every other human?


Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 02, 2012, 08:00:04 AM
Quote
At the same time, metal bands should not have to justify themselves to hysterics. We don't need to be on their festivals, and we don't need their fan base. All they're going to do is scrutinize us and then still miss the point entirely. Metal at its best is martial and triumphant. Punk is about being a loser and hating it. Bands who court this audience in a bid to break new ground should be prepared to deal with a bunch of self-righteous dorks who make every show smell like a gymnasium laundry hamper.

http://www.examiner.com/extreme-metal-music-in-national/opinion-punk-and-metal-are-not-the-same?referer=sieg_heil_1488_gas_the_jews_esse

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 02, 2012, 08:07:48 AM
I never said I had any interest in converting anyone.  If they don't come around on their own, then who needs them?  A lot of them would be into quality music or have the right ideas about the world if they looked at the way things were, and I'm sure a lot of people here were once into punk music, but at the same time, I don't really think anyone should go out of their way to show them.  We've all met punks who were beyond reason, certainly.

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 02, 2012, 08:26:52 AM
My reply was not directed at you, but at the thread in general. I wanted to include this bit of evidence for another perspective. I try to avoid the snarky behavior of attempting a "rebuttal" by the presentation of bald evidence with no description.

Since you will wonder anyway (?) I will attempt clarity here:

Quote
My point was how liberals in the 80s tried to ban heavy metal, just like this government is trying to ban punk.

I am very glad someone mentioned this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center

I bought bootleg albums to avoid these restrictions, which in the day were powerful because there were few indie record stores in the early 1980s, and the bigger stores were obeying these rules to the letter. As in, even if you were in your 50s you got carded.

Naturally the liberal media was fanning the flames, even against their own party.

The takeaways from this:

(1) Censorship knows no political orthodoxy. In fact, there are better examples of liberal censorship in this country. The best censorship is not even censorship. It is using economic and social forces to make ideas unknown. In fact, there is no culture that does not censor something. In many cases we agree with these taboos, such as on child pron or bomb-making instructions being made available to fifth-graders. In other cases, we may not (liberal Germany censoring Scientology and race science).
(2) Censorship has public value. If you want your society to have certain values, you need to exclude those who do not share those values. For this reason, I endorse censorship. If NAMBLA suddenly got $3bn from George Soros and began running a presidential campaign and MTV-fueled blitz in favor of anal pedophilia, most of us would probably want to censor them.
(3) Pick your censorship carefully. Punk is at this point an aimless genre for those who want to complain, do nothing, and be social. Metal isn't. It seems to me that metal has cultural value and punk, rock, hip-hop, etc. probably do not.
(4) Better than censorship is adulteration. Ever notice that NPR really loves the indie-emo-shoegaze-punk style metal bands? Why would state radio want to encourage that? Is that actually any different than what's going on with these shaven punks?

Quote
These punks were not kicked out because they didn't fit into the traditions of the land.  They were thrown out by a power hungry government who thought that more police equals more justice.

You know I'm an asshole and I'm going to point out the false parallelism here. Your first statement is politics, the second is pure rhetoric.

A government should want to maintain power by conserving tradition. That should also please its people. It's the opposite of how government works here in the USA.

As to my personal thoughts? I favor relocation of those who do not like the rules of a society. Move them and their possessions to an anarchy zone, and let the rules of nature take their course. They will soon find out why they love civilization.

Re: How all liberals should be dealt with
January 02, 2012, 08:36:12 AM
But doesn't that open the door for the government to control your life with a bad decision as well a good one?

I have notihing against ostracizing people who don't fit into a society.  I just think it should be the neighborhood in charge of this.  And maybe this is just the experiene with my own country. You point out, Conservationalist that our country promotes emo garbage, but then you want them to decide what should not be around?  In the country I live in, every time the government advances further into territory that should be handled by local authorities, it just messes up things more, so maybe my opinions are shaped by that view.