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Metal to write stories to

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 25, 2006, 05:37:33 AM
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I had the idea for 2 or maybe 3 books of a story that would be about religion and the affect it can have on people, but with a whole load of crazy crap on the side too. I'm not looking to create a literary masterpiece, I just like to write whenever I get the urge.


http://www.anus.com/metal/about/black_metal/

try this page (BEST EVER) or should i say study this page.  try & take ur mind off of COF & DB , you will get 8 books worth material out of this page if u listen to the best ever section.

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 25, 2006, 05:38:50 AM
hell my english is bad  ;D

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 25, 2006, 11:36:23 AM
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Cradle of Filth whore image, when your listening to cradle your not hearing art, your listening to the perpetuation of image, as such most people will listen to this music because of the way it makes them feel, as opposed to the artistic appreciation one may derive from something like Burzum.

Have you ever seen the retarded teenagers on forums, telling people not to mess with them because they are extreme and listen to slipknot? Cradle is slipknot is linkin park is crap. The music is ego masturbation, what an intelligent person might call individualism.

lyrically, http://www.darklyrics.com/lyrics/cradleoffilth/theprincipleofevilmadeflesh.html#9

Errant references to the self, screaming individualism. At the end of the song out of the blue comes lyrics of lost love. I can't discern the link between the god bashing and the "i'm so gothique and tragic". The lyrics read like a checklist or 'how to be goth F.A.Q' It's a product, and this is the bands first full length, cradle have never aspired to art.

Musically CoF sound like a melange of BM technique applied to pop esque progressions (1, 4, 5, anyone?) and all warmed over with  keyboards, sounding like a thousand other terrible bands. Vocals are the driving force of this music, "filth has an impressive vocal range, holy wowsers its so novel, this music must be excellent." Challenge a cradle fan on a forum and their general reaction will be that the vocals and keyboards are like so awesome dude. It sounds novel, it is crap.

Being a product, the songs inspire the one dimension of the product (which in cradle's case is image)  in the listener. One experienced with metal will shun this music; each and every listen will yield the exact, static, product. Which cradle have been flogging for the entirety of their career.

Something like burzum, true art, is an attempt to express the eternal. Repeated listens will not yield the same experience, there is a world of depth and complexity contained within, one can connect with the music, not the image presented.

Blitzkrieg you have brought image into your argument, your equating the image of the bands with the art they make? You've found this site, so your probably on the right track. Reevaluating ones musical tastes and more importantly, values, takes time. Keep exploring ANUS, you will hopefully come to understand the beauty of high art and why Cradle is utterly worthless.


I'm not looking to reevaluate my music tastes - just progress on them with time. If theres a space for Cradle in my sphere of music listening, it will occupy it. As for my values; I was a sleeping (and a nationalist) nihilist before I found out what it actually was.


I don't know how you can jump to calling Cradle a perpetuation of image (to a degree all BM bands are anyway) - I am willing to accept they might not be art (or, more willing to accept it's impossible to come to a consensus on the issue), but they are very certainly the best of metal entertainment (for me), if not art.

I have never studied musical theory, so I don't know how to explain technicalities in music structure, but perhaps you listen to a Cradle album (before midian) and tell me why all the songs adhere to a pop song structure, and then compare it to a "true" BM band. I can't make out any difference at all.

The romance bit is linked with

"That night they came and took her away from me
I lost the woman I loved and I learned how to curse
And to spit in the face of their... "god""

it's part of the reason for the god bashing.

;-)

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 27, 2006, 02:09:42 PM
well i do study music and i can clearly tell you there is a vast difference between the original 6 BM bands and CoF.

Also cradle are a band that make nothing new, all there aspects of there music have been done countless times before (after all they sound like a very poor version of emperor and immortal with heavy nu-metal leanings) and do nothing to move the genre forward.

And they simply worship Satan as a gimmick which becomes very obvious if you read any of there interviews and so all people who enter the metal scene through them know nothing about metal in the least and go on to create more bands like cradle. So as you ca see its bands like cradle that slowly degenerate metal to slush

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 28, 2006, 12:47:26 PM
when you enter a musical genre like black metal you should not just go "where going to sound just like a black metal band!!" because your not. it is not sounding like a black metal band that makes youa black metal band.

I find cradle of filth to fill the sterotype of a goth kid and make black metal look bad. There music has no original concept of moving the genre on, but just filling the gap with crap is not the solution to this answer.

Xaphan190 wrote:

"Actually he is right. Just because their music isn't true black, does that mean their lyrics are shit? What about those 'tr00 kvlt' bands that sing about hail satan 666 fuck god...very intelligent."

Satian was used as a symbol in early black metal, for he was a person that carved his own path. not just to bash godand be 'satanic' but as  black metal moved on you got stupid nu-metal bands taking this seriously an example would be slipknot and cradle of filth this is repeditive and boring move on.

anyone influenced by these two bands need to think again.


Re: Metal to write stories to
October 28, 2006, 05:27:55 PM
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Satian was used as a symbol in early black metal, for he was a person that carved his own path.


*cough*Euronymous*cough*

Dunkelheit

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 28, 2006, 10:24:17 PM
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Are you retarded? You manage to go on and on without actually addressing much of what I have said.

Your using the argument which was mentioned in a previous post. I believe it was along the lines of X is shit but so is Y so X is ok.

Dimmu Borgir may be hypocritical or whatever. But does that justify being a hypocrite to insult them?

The point of the argument was a band's genre does not necesarrily mean that the band's lyrics suck. You can't argue that so you just say that dimmu borgir sucks.

Kudos to dimmu borgir for completeing Grade 10 English, unlike a certain sonofevil.

From anwers.com


"Intelligent: Showing sound judgment and rationality: an intelligent decision; an intelligent solution to the problem."


1. Burzum (Dunkelheit)

[Musikk og tekst skrevet August 1991 a.y.p.s.]

When night falls
she cloaks the world
in impenetrable darkness.
A chill rises
from the soil
and contaminates the air
suddenly...
life has new meaning.


Dimmu Borgir

[For All Time]

Every tear is frozen
Our soul is linked
Our hate is bloody
All happiness is gone away
All laughter is gone away
All life shall end in death
In a cold and deserted landscape
Shall the black horde step from
Our lord shall rise
Up for all time, rise his kingdom again
Our struggle shall be rewarded
Our names shall be written
Our minds shall pull the bough
All morality shall be cast away
You want but you die of shame
Now is the time come
Yes break the word of the good
Let us for all time become rulers on this earth


Neither of these songs are pretty stellar in the intelligence department.

Now, hold your breath and try not to insult dimmu borgir. If you actually bothered to read my posts, you would see that NOT ONCE, thats right, NOT ONCE have I claimed their lyrics are intelligent. I'm merely challenging you to think of a valid reason WHY. 'Oh they sound like shit' 'theyr candy black metal' etc etc are NOT good reasons.


Those two sets of lyrics show a stark contrast between those two bands.

Dunkelheit speaks of finding meaning in life through nature.

That Dimmu Borgir song expresses some collectivist yearning for their god's time to come. It reminds me of the christian concept of waiting for an eternal life in heaven.

Black Metal is about Nihilism and strength of the individual not some Judeo-Christian afterlife or judgement day and strength of a group.

Bands like CoF and DB seem to be somewhat egalitarian despite their satanic imagery.

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 29, 2006, 06:40:03 AM
you could tell from those lyrics which band has more meaning behind the song, and besides, even if cradle or dimmu or children of bodom have similar lyrical context to a real black metal band you heard, and they sound just like one of them original black metal bands, they seem to look like them too, they have make up on...Well, there's another word for that, it's called 'POSER'
and if you can't tell the difference, then you might as well listen to scooby doo metal, xaphan and other High On Fire lovers out there

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 29, 2006, 06:49:04 AM
I'm noticing two types of Dimmu bashers here - the clever ones who manage to find the true "faults" with their music and philosophy, and the stupid ones who keep proclaiming that DB/COF are just stupid posers for some reason, and how thye aren't true enough.

"That Dimmu Borgir song expresses some collectivist yearning for their god's time to come. It reminds me of the christian concept of waiting for an eternal life in heaven. "

It's a metaphor, for morality, it even says morality in there.

Whats wrong with a collectivist yearning for something?

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 29, 2006, 11:07:42 AM
The return of darkness and evil, the return of fire and flame, the return of my master satan, the return of desire and pain.

Classic lyrics, we've all heard them, now is this a metaphor for independent thought, or is it a guy reading satanic material and thinking he'll write a song about it. In interviews Quorthon said he was inspired by comic books he used to read, pretty childish, but he didn't take lyrics too seriously until he moved on to viking themes. Fair enough.

I listened to the whole the Principle of Evil Made flesh today, start to end. The keyboarods follow a simple four chord structure. My vocab is limited in this area so forgive me if i sound primitive. It's simply going up and down a chord and then switching to another one mostly, using four different chords usually one major chord chucked in for good measure and the rest being minor. This means the music has a simple hook which is appealing but limiting, after the chord structure on the keyboard or riff on the guitar has been used up they simply move onto the next riff or set of chords. This means that the music does not flow as much as "true" black metal, which simply uses one or two riffs that match with such perfection it is almost genius. (see Transylvanian Hunger)

It seems to me that filth started out listenning to emperor and thinking "wow, this is awesome", so they made a less than average album that on the face of it sounds more complex than your average Burzum track, because more riffs and keyboards are used, but it does not flow in the same way. When filth's popularity grew they lost sight of their influences and focused on image more and more, fancy keyboard lines in the same vain as their debut were churned out only this time they had better production on their side. Now they simply have an over the top goth image to uphold and are unrecognisable from what they started out as. In other words, they started out with good intentions but found that a simple chord sequence repeated followed by another one worked just as well.

Lyrically, there is no passion, when Varg Vikernes is singing, you somehow feel that he has lived it. When Dani is singing it is like he has thought, "what theme shall this album be?" and then hashed out some lyrics that sound something like true black metal, most of them time though, they are indesifable, just to give the music credibility. I have always felt that lyrics come second to the music though. The lyrics provide a setting for the song to take place and the music creates the images. The music expresses the emotions that are never articulated in words.

If you want to be inspired by music then crack open that unbelievably repetative burzum keyboard line, role yourself a joint and go for a walk in some woods or take a look at the moonlight, there is a buety in the repetative style of the music, complexity will grow out of it. You will however, as i have already said, have a hard time putting what you feel into words. The same riff repeated is beutiful because the riff itself is complex, if not hard to play, we simply can't get enough of that one darkthrone riff etc etc. A filth riff is usually predictable and follows a formula of some kind.

One final note, you're means you are, your means your. And we're means we are, where means where.  

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 29, 2006, 03:24:14 PM
Very good post VAT you've explained your position most eloquently. :) Pretty much agree with your analysis of COF, but I stil enjoy listening to them.

I don't smoke weed however, the majority of people I see smoking it are wasters, or aspire to be wasters.

If beauty is found in music when it repeats itself, then can someone explain classical music for me? It doesn't recycle itself as BM bands seem to do, but they often have merging ideals.

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 29, 2006, 05:32:10 PM
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If beauty is found in music when it repeats itself, then can someone explain classical music for me? It doesn't recycle itself as BM bands seem to do, but they often have merging ideals.



Actually most Classical or Romantic era music can be simplified down two a theme or two per movement. They are just repeated in ways that are somewhat complex so it seems to an untrained ear they are completely different (note, this wasn't ment to be an insult to say that you can't hear it. I can't either and it's often only noticable when I examine the score).

Essentially Classical music repeats itself constantly but always slightly changing itself. Metal repeats itself usually without any major changes or something simple like going double time on the drums. Most other music cycles through melodies and only ever repeats to bring a marginal sense of unity (the outro should sound like the intro LOLZ!).

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 30, 2006, 08:45:07 AM
And because most decent black metal suffers from bad production and the guitars are extremely distorted, a subtle change would not be noticed so much as in classical music. So, in this way, black metal is far more constricted.

Dunkelheit

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 31, 2006, 10:32:03 AM
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Whats wrong with a collectivist yearning for something?


Black Metal is very individualistic. Collectivism isn't bad when its focused into a small group of like-minded people, but when it's used for the masses, it's a crutch for the weak.

Re: Metal to write stories to
October 31, 2006, 01:54:53 PM
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Black Metal is very individualistic. Collectivism isn't bad when its focused into a small group of like-minded people, but when it's used for the masses, it's a crutch for the weak.


Walt said in this thread that one of the reasons CoF were shit was because one of their songs had multiple references to the self. explain.