Becoming a Priest

[Ratatosk]

Evola's point is the only good one: Christianity confuses esoteric and exoteric elements of the faith. But as even he points out, the medieval church had no such illusions. It was only when the proles overpopulated that this confusion became profitable.

Conservationist, could you expound on this thought  [I've only had the pleasure of his Doctrine of Awakening]?

I grew up in a Calvinist family where anything esoteric was converted to symbolism. It is my understanding that the prole revolution did the opposite, namely, disenchanted Catholicism.




I'd also like to chime in on the concept of altering Christianity. Intuitively and immediately I grasp the value behind this concept. But when I think of the practical applications, my mind reels. Let's take the book itself for an example.

Genesis, chapter 1: do we teach 7 day creationism? Do we teach original sin? Do we teach the concept of chosen people? Do we teach Moses turned a staff into a serpent? Do we teach Elijah being fed by trained crows? Do we teach the bodily assumption into heaven of the various prophets? Etc.

If you feel we should change the religion, eventually we will have to take it piecemeal and apply some rule or interpretation, assuming this is not mere beard-stroking.



Here is a concept on how to go forward with this issue, as it seems the philosophy has entrenched into a number of positions.

If you feel strongly about either changing Christianity, keeping it, or abandoning it altogether, or somewhere in between, read this chapter.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Kings+18&version=NIV

Reject it, accept it, or propose an interpretation; explain why.

I'll go first:
I believe we should reject stories like this from our religious tradition. The point of religion is to get people outside their heads, outside their immediate surroundings and groups, and force them to stand in naked awe in front of reality. Tales like this muddle the topic, and if kept in are a sore spot for attacks from skeptics. I feel in the outset we should claim the name of Christianity while radically altering it's focus, with the goal of over time rejecting large swaths of it's past in favor of keeping the 10% useful for sustaining society and providing an source of inspiration for those not obsessed with mundane achievements.

[Von List]

I don't know. I think the whole idea behind the current shift towards Christianity here is "Can't beat 'em, join 'em" but then you get into the whole "lets turn Christianity into something almost completely different" which is, honestly, a characteristic of modernity. What we're suggesting IS a cause of modernity.



This is silly.


If black metal, paganism, satanism and whatnot has failed, I'm not so sure any of this will succeed either.

[Sammaellofi]

It's not "If you can't beat 'em, join em.".  It's more like "If it aint, don't fix it". 

That is to say, only fix things that need repairing.  Traditional society can exist quite well and has with the assistance of the church, but there are also aspects of the Christian religion that should be looked at in order to see if they cause more harm than good.

[Von List]

And by repairing, from what i read in this thread, means almost totally changing Christianity.



I mean, look at the threads in this forum. Occultism, black magic, world depopulation, anti-egalitarianism, societal hierarchy, etc etc etc



you're not going to convince modern Christians that these are good things. Only a small minority.

[Sammaellofi]

First of all, the occult and black magic are nothing if not extentions of, or eventualy attachments on, tradtitional Christianity. 

And second, we don't have to convince modern Christians.  This person is from this forum and he is going to join the church and we thought, if he was an intelligent person, he could steer his flock toward a more worthy path.

No one means for him to blast metal at his sermons and to mutilate corpses on the alter, but maybe he could teach his flock to do worthy deeds in this world, rather than worry about gaining entrance into another one.  Then further improvements could follow slowly.

[Von List]

The occult and black magic are attachments on Christianity? I'm not sure where you are getting that from.




We have to face the fact that we're a bunch of like-minded dudes that come here to talk about interesting things that will probably never be accepted or adopted by society. Not trying to sound defeatist, but that is the way things have gone.

[Sammaellofi]

The occult and black magic are attachments on Christianity? I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

If someone wants to worship Satan by doing evil, they are still living within the rules of Christian thought.  Cpnjuring demons or selling your soul to get earthly pleasures is all part of Christian thought.  being in rebellion against God is not a rebellion against Christianity as a tool that explains the truth.  It goes farther than that and there are more different kinds of occult than this, but you get the idea.

[Annihilation]

Christian literature: anything by Rene Guenon, Augustine, Plotinus. If those are too "hard," try Thomas Merton.

When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos.

Therefore the Master concerns himself
with the depths and not the surface,
with the fruit and not the flower.
He has no will of his own.
He dwells in reality,
and lets all illusions go.

-- Lao Tzu, Tao te Ching

[Conservationist]

Here's my vision:

(1) ANUS formulates a sane view of the world

(2) We translate that into as many traditions as possible

If the same truth can be expressed in Hindu, Satanist, Christian, Odinist, pagan, Wiccan, LGBT activist, survivalist, Radical Honest, etc. values-systems, why not?

Spread widely and from below, not from a central attack. Wasn't there some message about this in the Odyssey?

[Humanicide]

That being said, I've held a view for a while now that monotheistic religions are horse shit. One "God" can't run things effectively. Since "God" is nothing more than a creation of Man, who very rarely can run things effectively on his own.

That's exactly how one would accept Christianity (not as it is) but for the deeper thread that can lead towards the truth. A God who is created in the image of man is flawed, God is nonhuman and beyond this world.

Point taken. Thanks for the insight.

I'm still going to avoid practicing Christianity or raising my children with it. The horse is dead and has been beaten enough. Honestly I'd rather have them be "free" so to speak and find their own way rather than be a drone. I'm there as a parent for guidance and support, not overarching control.

[Conservationist]

I'm there as a parent for guidance and support, not overarching control.

This is another juicy topic.

Based on what happened to my generation, the parents who offered "choice" failed and the parents who offered consistent answers did OK.

[WAAAAAAGH!]

Problem: Modern Christianity is the TV show Barney for adults.

I hope that this gentlemen does something to correct this error.

[Conservationist]

Problem: Modern Christianity is the TV show Barney for adults.

True, but partial. Let me take a stab:

Problem: Modern[ism] (equality, freedom, democracy, pluralism, multiculturalism, consumerism) is the TV show Barney for adults.

Aaaaaah, that feels better.

[WAAAAAAGH!]

I agree. The bulk of American non-denoms are like that. As are their followers. It's sickening.

[Jim Necroslaughter]

I'm there as a parent for guidance and support, not overarching control.

This is another juicy topic.

Based on what happened to my generation, the parents who offered "choice" failed and the parents who offered consistent answers did OK.

Right.  Humanicide, think about it like this:  many of us were raised Christian, yet we still managed to think for ourselves.  We weren't ruined by it.  In fact, my theory is that if you're taught a consistent and systematic way of thinking as a child, you have a reference point to deviate from and to contrast new ideas to.  If you teach them no strong way in particular they are left twisting in the wind altogether.