Neanderthals and our extra-terrestrial origins

[indjaseemun]

I came across this article many days ago by geologist Rober M. Schoch about the work of Stan Gooch, basically what he says is that the neanderthals were a intuitive, magical culture of dreams and that cro-magnons were more rational and male-oriented, and that they mixed (apparently the guy said that before it was proved that we have neanderthal dna), causing a very divided psychology in humans:

http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/articles/stan-gooch-the-neanderthal-legacy

Looks a little like that funny monk Salvatore on the film The Name Of The Rose. He was very intuitive too.

Now I read this interesting interview with Varg:

When I was reading your website, I was fascinated by the teenage games/fights you had in forest, with clubs, spears etc. It seemed like you longed for the past, of nobler time perhaps, where people fought battles to defend their beloved lands. Please tell me more about this longing.

My brilliant wife has studied this subject for some time, and has found many very interesting answers. Apparently the longing is very European, and she thinks we have this longing because we were better in the past. The flawed theory of evolution tells us differently, of course, but if you look at the first art known from the Chauvet cave in France some 35.000 years old, it was exceptional compared to the art of f. ex. the early middle ages. The older the art we find is, the better it is.

Before Chauvet they didn't even need art, because their minds were so superior. They didn't need to record the beauty of our world; they managed to process all impressions properly just by looking at it. They could f. ex. like a modern day autistic savant just take a look at the sky and memorize the positions of all the stars.

We long for this time, because we still have this fantastic neanderthal DNA in us (seen today as blonde hair, blue or gray eyes and white skin), and just like you can feel phantom pains in a lost finger, we feel phantom pains in our severed minds, that were broken by the mixing of homo sapiens and homo neanderthalensis beginning perhaps some 40.000 years ago. This despair causes us to produce art and to do weird things, in an attempt to artificially create the harmony that we no longer are able to experience.

Alas! All that has been lost due to race mixing... and we keep doing it, digging our own grave in the process.


Also, from another lost, forgotten, sad interview:

Writers like Tolkien actually never "made up" anything, they just wrote stories based on memories from the past (memories from the blood)! Not necessarily from our world, our planet, but from the last planet we lived on (in the system of Sirius), when we were Gods.

[§Transcix]

I know in the universe there are many beings far more powerful than I, with far more talents and capacities. This is a difficult truth to digest. Should I say that what makes me great is that I'm not them, I'm uniquely my own special individual? Should humans crave an intuitive, dream-like state, on the basis that it's what they know in their genetic history, on the basis that it's what's familiar and what's programmed to be interpreted as enjoyable? When I experience incredible entheogenic-induced states of awareness, I'm reminded that perhaps more arduous than suffering resulting from experiencing new lows, new levels of pain, is experiencing new highs, and then coming back down to what once was taken for granted but now seems insufficient. It seems the path of true enlightenment lies not in the familiar but in the unknown, in a contentment so strong that it cannot possibly settle for itself. Eastern spirituality alludes to emptiness shattering upon its own emptiness, yet I choose to retain purposive, dynamic agency behind the evolutionary vector of this hallowing out. Part of it stems from where I come from, my innate predispositions, and certainly existential angst over defining myself in spite of or against my predispositions would be as ignorant as much as a painting can only exist with a painter, or a choice with a chooser. Between my lot in life and my emptiness within, I don't know if there's anything more to distinguish me--perhaps the mystery of individuality arises from the fanciful sparks and deflections from grating against that grindstone of a black hole, that epic singularity whereby the destination and the journey are one, both always complete and never complete. But one thing that's for certain, is that to the extent my genes define me I must fight against this definition, not despite my genes but with them and for them, lest they be in vain. A limit is only ever a constituent towards a framework of potentially limitless freedom, where this freedom can only ever manifest within a limited framework, and where this potential limitlessness entails not the total obliteration of all boundary and definition but rather a conventional process of unlimited duration, such as the process of living, in a way where the living agent changes without destroying its own agency. Lower creatures may heed their physical character, but that which is truly etched to the core of my being, remaining the same the more things change, if present in my genetic history at essence cannot be dependent on physical genes as it will carry on after physical death. Revere the physical, and therefore kill it, hollow it out--destruction is creation. Once you stop worrying about defending your identity against the existential weight of the universe, only then can you attack the universe.

[christopher]

  We long for this time, because we still have this fantastic neanderthal DNA in us (seen today as blonde hair, blue or gray eyes and white skin),

  Is this true?  I first became aware of this theory of admixture by reading Coon's The Races of Europe about a decade ago.  Since then, every few years I see a DNA study about this, and it seems that half of them have disproved the theory and the other half have proved it.  It always reminds me that with DNA there are very large numbers, which are easy to manipulate to falsely demonstrate whatever one wants to demonstrate.  The lesson being that common sense and observation should always trump the results of some study that you have not yourself independently verified the methods and interpretation.

[indjaseemun]

http://www.google.com.br/search?q=humans+have+neanderthal+dna&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&redir_esc=&ei=n1MoT--bJ8KTtwej4P3bBA

[christopher]

I don’t like this idea much.

My first reaction is, “Why emphasize a bit of Neanderthal in our blood”?   I think probably so sad racists could fortify their belief that European man is superior, since this blood would be unique to Caucasians.  If we did intermix, by most definitions of species, humans and Neanderthals would be of the same species, and this would be no different than the numerous other occasions of racial mixture in our past.  But this feels different since Neanderthals are often thought of as a separate species.

Second reaction: this idea is largely fantasy, with no real evidence.  Comparing it to Tolkien may be reasonable, but Tolkien is probably the less fictitious of the two.

Third reaction: I feel that the opposite fantasy would make more sense and be more consistent with modern racialist theory.   That is, that an artistic, creative, dreamy, group of humans mixed with the stronger, more pragmatic and intelligent Neanderthal man who lacked only ambition and imagination, producing a hybrid with the ability to put to full fruition the dreams of the humans.  This fits much better with the observationally based stereotypes of modern cro-magnon vs. mediterraean/nordid as described on racist internet fora by Agrippa et al.

 “Before Chauvet they didn't even need art, because their minds were so superior. They didn't need to record the beauty of our world; they managed to process all impressions properly just by looking at it. They could f. ex. like a modern day autistic savant just take a look at the sky and memorize the positions of all the stars”

Ahh, so I am superior because of the greatness of my dreams and my appreciation for the beauty of nature.   So I can wank around in my parents basement without ever doing anything and be superior to those proles who toil away and actually produce something concrete?

I have these thoughts too - that my dreams and appreciation for beauty are superior - but I am not deluded, and I tell myself to stop being a wanker and actually do something with my life.  And I have always assumed that the sorry apelike men that we are prone to feeling superior to spend just as much time if not more dreaming and appreciating the beauty of the stars.

[christopher]

http://www.google.com.br/search?q=humans+have+neanderthal+dna&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&ie=utf8&oe=utf8&redir_esc=&ei=n1MoT--bJ8KTtwej4P3bBA

 I am not sure what your intention was for reminding me that Google exists?

My point was not to argue either way.  I am not up to date on the literature.

Here is a random article from 2008.  http://www.cell.com/abstract/S0092-8674(08)00773-3  

Analysis of the assembled sequence unequivocally establishes that the Neandertal mtDNA falls outside the variation of extant human mtDNAs

I am just bothered by the number of articles that have "unequivocally" proven or disproved this theory. And of course the degree to which these studies "unequivocally" prove things is exaggerated by the media, but still I have tired of the issue and my position now is that I don't care and that I dont get particularlly excited every couple of years when I read an article in the media suggesting that the scientific community has flip-flopped on this issue once again.

[Cargést]

If there's no Neanderthal mtDNA, that just means that no Sapiens male mated with a Neanderthal female to produce succesful offspring.  Clearly Neanderthal males produced succesful offspring with Sapiens females - that explains the admixture.

[crow]

Easy on there, boys.
We wouldn't want to offend neanderthals, now would we?
Anything offensive to neanderthals must be carefully guarded against.
I mean, there are so many of them around, these days...

[indjaseemun]

More information: The Approach of the Dark Gods

http://vndx.wordpress.com/category/approach-of-the-dark-gods/