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Classical/metal and rock are different worlds

Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 08, 2006, 03:38:58 PM
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Schroeder from Peanuts and Alex from A Clockwork Orange liked Beethoven, so as a kid, I figured he had to be good. Then I tried to listen to the Fifth or the Ninth or some other long, drawn-out orchestra piece by Beethoven, and I figured it was one of those things that grown-ups learned to enjoy, like broccoli. Now, at my advanced age (let's just say I'm closer to 40 than to 30), those pieces still set my mind to wandering and my toe to tapping, but not in a good way. Near as I can tell, in his longer works, Beethoven (maybe I shouldn't pick on Ludwig Van here; this seems to be equally true for Haydn, Brahms, and even there, I said it! Mozart) takes a killer hook (like dih-dih-dih-dah), then repeats it a few times, and then puts it through dozens of slightly different, overly orchestrated variations. To coin a phrase, he changes the beauty of the melody until it sounds just like a symphony! Modern musical geniuses have developed far superior ways to drag out a hook, and they're smart enough to stop after three to five minutes. Tom Conroy, senior editor


entertainment week

I know this is a moron magazine, and so this moronic opinion should surprise no one, but I think more than "moronic" we see what happens when someone's brain is trained only to recognize the repetitive harmonies and binary song structures of rock music.

Metal breaks away from this with narrative structures, at least in the underground metal and quality heavy metal -- which is 2% of the metal produced but as in life, the minority of thinkers are more valuable than the masses although they are rarely recognized as such. Gas the masses!

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 08, 2006, 05:05:47 PM
It's always good to be reminded that the world is not only full of morons - but the morons occupy positions of trust.

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 08, 2006, 05:16:39 PM
Someone liking rock and not getting into classical music is fine with me, but the first sentance alone was about the dumbest thing I have read in a while, which is saying something since I post on several metal boards.

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 08, 2006, 08:31:37 PM
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I know this is a moron magazine, and so this moronic opinion should surprise no one, but I think more than "moronic" we see what happens when someone's brain is trained only to recognize the repetitive harmonies and binary song structures of rock music.

Morons aplenty, but let me go out on a limb and say there is no way that "article" is serious.  It's too obvious and secure in it's ignorance, like some troll posts here.  It's a joke.

Then again, when you look at the education system in the US and many other countries, especially the de-emphasis of the arts in favor of athletics and memorizing trivial facts... The author is about 40 years old, it's safe to say he has never had decent education in music.  Music was an easy "A" for a few years, a slight inconvenience.  So why would he appreciate anything beyond the simplest, most easily understandable music?  If it lets him connect with the masses, it must be good; if it alienates him as Beethoven seemingly does, it must be bad.

Otherwise intelligent people fall into that trap all the time.  They might stay there, but I think after a while most will yearn for more and end up with more intelligent music.  At least they can learn and evolve, whereas a true moron will always be subpar even if they listen to Burzum.

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 09, 2006, 01:28:29 AM
Most peope start out listenning to simple rock and pop music when they're younger, when i was younger i certainly didn't think much of any classical music. But then people mature, the first time a heard black metal i thought it was shit, but gradual i came round to it. The people who do not move onto so called higher forms of music and continue to listen to subpar rock, even when they know of the likes of Bethoven, are clearly not cut out for such music in the first place. Let them have their rock and their moronic opinions on music, it's their loss.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 09, 2006, 07:51:37 AM
I always prefered Bachtoven over Beethoven myself.

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 09, 2006, 03:48:38 PM
You don't have to grow into classical, its entirely what your brought up with, my farther is a huge classical fans and has a great affinity for Handel and Bach, as well as a big love for progressive acts and many large rock legends (like deep purple or led zeppelin) and i have always loved all of them and i never had to grow into classical music myself

Annihilaytorr

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 09, 2006, 04:21:23 PM
I donno, classical was always "just there" for me.

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 09, 2006, 06:10:48 PM
i have been hearing about how awesome western classical is, and how BM/DM etc reflects similar structures.........but except for a few pieces, it sounds horribley "tea and scones" type crap

sometimes it sounds majestic, haunting etc but then the guitars dont kik in and it ends up being a disspointment......plus most of it aint dark enough...........

can someone suggest some seriously dark and heavy classical works  ?

I would suggest some eastern classical music for the uninitiated people to understand how music can be so moody epic and yet organic.......

the traditions are handed down generation to generation, and themes are expanded upon extempore,...but it is still very different from folk.....ie it is more intelligent...epic...complex...and oes not at allbeleive in transcribing if someone is interested i can upload.........


Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 09, 2006, 06:53:30 PM
If you search for good and dark Classical work, try the 8th Symphony (The infinished), by Frank Schubert. If you like piano, try the piano works of Beethoven between his 8th and 9th symphony.

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 11, 2006, 01:42:20 AM
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Otherwise intelligent people fall into that trap all the time.  They might stay there, but I think after a while most will yearn for more and end up with more intelligent music.  At least they can learn and evolve, whereas a true moron will always be subpar even if they listen to Burzum.


I think this is what Blafbee was talking about when he spoke of differential intelligence. Some people who are "otherwise intelligent" have little critical thinking skill, that final stage in intelligence that is not measured on IQ tests. It cannot be tested because it requires a situation as complex as the real world and does not replicate itself in a replicated situation, nor is it always right. But over time it finds better answers.

I think this is what is meant by the apparently offensive phrase "thin intelligence" that used to be tossed around in the columns.

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 11, 2006, 11:06:38 AM
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sometimes it sounds majestic, haunting etc but then the guitars dont kik in and it ends up being a disspointment......plus most of it aint dark enough...........




it doesn't have to use orchestral instruments (or exclude guitars, at least the heavily distorted kind) to be classically influenced. What people mean when they say that is it uses conventions used by classical music not instruments, so music becomes more narrative (doesn't cycle like rock music or blues) or makes good use of motivic development
would be examples of music taking influence from classical

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 11, 2006, 11:18:05 AM
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What people mean when they say that is it uses conventions used by classical music not instruments, so music becomes more narrative (doesn't cycle like rock music or blues) or makes good use of motivic development
would be examples of music taking influence from classical


They sound really similar. The way themes build up to an emotional point, then drop off, then reinterpret that idea, then return to it, and it goes on like riff salad but it all makes sense. Blues you know exactly what's coming next. Metal/classical... it's wide open until you know the whole piece. It's more like poetry to me where blues and rock are more like sound loops.

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 11, 2006, 11:39:07 AM
but blues (usually) doesn't follow the verse chorus structure was all i was getting at

Re: Classical/metal and rock are different worlds
November 11, 2006, 11:47:31 AM
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but blues (usually) doesn't follow the verse chorus structure was all i was getting at


It doesn't follow the verse chorus structure ever to be honest, but it always is ended by concluding the chords the way that a chorus would, almost as if it were just repeating choruses without verses.