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What's next and who's doin it?

What's next and who's doin it?
November 09, 2006, 07:14:21 PM
If Classical forged the path for Rock, and Rock forged the path for Punk, and somewhere along the lines "ambient/electronic/techno/industrial" came about, and then somehow during the late 60's/early 70's early metal started, and now that Black and Death Metal have pretty much died after not very much time, what's next? A lot of people are really frustrated with a lack of original music(there's plenty of new music, most of it isn't worth listening to). Personally, I haven't heard really any new metal of any kind that breaks any new ground. Some of it is listenable, some of it sounds pretty good superficially, but it's still pretty much the same. The best metal happened before I was born, and when I was a very young child.

So what's next? Will it be darkwave/industrial, will metal resurrect itself? For lack of good metal, what other movements are coming up with good, original music? When you get bored with metal what genres do you turn to?

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 09, 2006, 08:14:51 PM
I think saying classical forged the way for rock is pretty ridiculous.  Folk "forged the way" for country and then later came jazz and blues which was mixed with country by people in the deep South of the States to form early rock.  When rock was slowed down and was fused with the idea of riffs based on power chords, rather than simple melodies over basic chords, the basis of metal came about.  

And that's only one of your ridiculous assumption dealt with.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 10, 2006, 01:23:08 AM
... This is beyond ridiculous.

"So what's next?"

I tire of these threads. The ultimate fact remains that decent metal resigned long ago. Only the idiots amongst us cling to its rotting remains. The better have long since taken the paragons the genre had to offer, and branched off into other stimulating forms of music. These questions are never going to be answered, and they hardly generate lively debate. They inevitably invite the opinions of some jackass who posts "the new Nile is hardcore."

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 10, 2006, 01:44:52 AM
Classical was buried when America imported the Africans into their country and they made Blues music. Classical will come back and destroy Blues. Death to simple rhythms.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 10, 2006, 05:21:07 AM
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Death to simple rhythms.


I guess that means no more Transylvanian hungar as well.  Everyone knows that less is less after all.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 10, 2006, 05:27:41 AM
I believe hip hop is next ........and everyone's doin' it
:P :P

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 10, 2006, 07:39:27 PM
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I guess that means no more Transylvanian hungar as well.  Everyone knows that less is less after all.


If Transilvanian Hunger die with the blues stuff, I would enjoy to sacrifice it and give again to classical music his nobility.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 10, 2006, 07:47:17 PM
Hopefully hip-hop will die soon. Usually after something becomes so completely commercialized, it is already dead. Classical music certainly is a part of what I listen to (in response to some asshole who thinks he must know everything). Without classical music, there would be no black metal. It's true that Classical music came from traditional European folk music, almost 100%. Everything complex musically, is always based on something more simple. When deciding how the hell to categorize music, I generally decide if it's listenable based on several factors.

1. Technicality-What key is the piece in, how is it timed, how many melodies/counter melodies are happening, how well does it all work together
2. skill- how well does the band play their instruments. Is the lead singer good? If there are lyrics, are they interesting, relevent or thought provoking? Do the lyrics evoke an emotion, or a memory?
3. Music as well as art doesn't have to be all serious all the time, conform to any genre, use only one or two styles, or have to impress anybody, sometimes simple can be good.

Furthermore, Nile never impressed anybody, except maybe my pothead brother, when he was 12.

I asked my question based on the fact that I have listened to metal for my entire life. I am utterly familiar with every genre, every time period, any band that was worth listening to. I have played a variety of instruments in myriad styles for 12 years. I understand music, in general, on every level. My preferences run to black metal, industrial, and darkwave/ambient. I thought I might find other people,who understand music enough to let me know if there was anything new or impressive goin on musically. I guess not.
Or maybe those who know guitar only, self-taught out of a basic beginners book with blurbs about the history in the preface should stick to what they know, which is guitar, instead of commenting on complex theory and styles.

Also, you don't have to drop names of bands, or names of underground metal bands to prove how metal you are. If you're still doin that in your 40s, you have some serious issues.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 11, 2006, 01:34:38 AM
I t hink the influence of the blues is way, way, way overstated. Everything in the blues comes from Celtic folk music, which in itself was influenced by the same music from which classical came. All of these musics depend on European music theory, so it's hard to claim they're unrelated. The "blues scale" has been in use among Semitic nations for centuries, and was not unknown or unused in Asia and the British aisles. I think rock is such a big industry people try to make a big deal of it, but really it's at best a footnote to the history of real music.

I don't believe it makes sense to classify death metal and black metal as rock, and even Black Sabbath was probably the first band to escape rock (remember, they were prog players who'd done time in Jethro Tull and Led Zeppelin as well). It didn't completely escape of course, but that's what future generations are for.

Hip-hop probably has its place, but not in my life. I don't think it's any stupider than most rock music, including the utterly pointless Dave Matthews Band or the trivial Red Hot Chili Peppers. When you look at rock music critically, you see that most of it is very simplistic thinking touched up with a bit of music theory. I can say the same of jazz and techno.

Most metal is dumb as rocks, including almost everything currently out, but there are exceptions, and those are worth living for. Until, of course, you can download some quality classical (not Mendelssohn or Mahler).

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 11, 2006, 01:36:02 AM
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The ultimate fact remains that decent metal resigned long ago. Only the idiots amongst us cling to us rotting remains.


I wish more people recognized this simple fact. The sooner we and others make this widely recognized, the less the new crap will be tolerated and then room will be created for potential quality works.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 11, 2006, 08:12:16 AM
I have no idea why people spend so much time trying to downlplay blues from metal.  Even if you want to say that blues didn't play such a big role for Black Sabbath (which would quite frankly be one of the dumbest ideas to be presented on this board), you would also have to account for the fact that most extreme metal bands of the 80s were big into punk, which is almost nothing but blues progressions.

Yes I know blues came from folks, but it also came from the improvisational jazz music that was being made by the freed African American slaves in the late 1800s.  

And there would be no rock if blues wasn't done the way it was at the time it was done, no matter how much folk existed at the time.  No blues equals no rock.  No blues equals no metal.  No blues equals no punk.  No blues equals no Burzum, Graveland or any of those other bands.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 11, 2006, 09:05:47 AM
Discharge is blues progressions? Are you really saying that no one would have created metal music, which resembles classical more than rock in many cases, without the blues? The world is a lot bigger than America, and only in America is the blues given this almost magical place in music history.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 11, 2006, 09:08:49 AM
Blues belongs in the geneology of metal. Blues, however, is not a fundamental starting point, but rather in tracing the geneology back further, you will come to other forms of music. It's important to see the progression fully.

Also, the reason people often bring this up is to say "look, metal is just blues-based rock like everything else we listen to!". Blues belongs in metal's geneology, but that doesn't mean metal is basing itself on blues. Metal reached out and did other things, and as many members like to point out, there are often classical and other musical influences that metal held more dearly then any kind of blues progression. And really, alot of the metal that is held on high here hardly sounds like blues.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 11, 2006, 09:31:08 AM
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Are you really saying that no one would have created metal music, which resembles classical more than rock in many cases, without the blues?


Yes that is exactly what I am saying.  Metal came from rock and there is no getting around that.  Rock came from blues and there is no getting around that.  Classical influences didn't enter metal until much later, although they rarely appeared early on in a very novelty form.  If there was no blues, then metal would not exist.  There would probably be some other style of music that was based on classical music, but it probably would be vastly differant.  You may delude yourself into thinking whatever you want.

I'm sorry, but rock music is a totally American thing.  Even the early Enlgish rock bands all claim it came from blues and American music.  If you don't like American music, then there are plenty of other genres in the world that don't come from American music, but you can't listen to any kind of metal without admitting that blues played a part in it's creation.

Like I said, I have no idea why you would want to deny this.  

Discharge, by the way, came later after punk was established.  Power chords also came from the blues, for those who didn't know that already.

Re: What's next and who's doin it?
November 11, 2006, 09:34:26 AM
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Blues belongs in the geneology of metal. Blues, however, is not a fundamental starting point, but rather in tracing the geneology back further, you will come to other forms of music. It's important to see the progression fully.

Also, the reason people often bring this up is to say "look, metal is just blues-based rock like everything else we listen to!". Blues belongs in metal's geneology, but that doesn't mean metal is basing itself on blues. Metal reached out and did other things, and as many members like to point out, there are often classical and other musical influences that metal held more dearly then any kind of blues progression. And really, alot of the metal that is held on high here hardly sounds like blues.


Yes there are countless other influences, but they are ALL important.  They all played a part and without any one of them, metal would be vastly different, or non-existant completely.  I have no idea why people on this board want to hide from the blues influence.