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Ego death, death metal and black metal

Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 19, 2006, 04:48:06 PM
Ego-death is a concept that psychedelics and zen monks alike discovered. In it, the person realizes they are one part of a giant system, and stop seeing the world through themselves. They see themselves in the world, but they see the bigger process first. Ego-death tends to lead to a transcendent state where one sees all of consciousness as a continuum, and becomes less afraid of d-y-i-n-g.

"Only Death is Real" conveyed a lot more than I had first established. This was a statement of ego-death: no matter how big you think you are or how important, death is more real than your visions, so you must accept nothingness. To accept nothingness is to cast aside the unhealthy parts of the ego and to give it context, so that the ego is a motivic force but only one of many on a planet. To see only death as real is to wonder what else can be real. The answer is right past the end of our noses: the world is real, and it's a continuum that renews itself, so it's worth working for. If you like life, you work to make it better. If you hate life, you deny the reality of the world and you go further inward into the self and its desires.

Ego death, death metal and black metal

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 19, 2006, 05:23:50 PM
People also respond to this by thinking that they need to leave something behind because no one will remember their place.  They need to leave a mark or else their life meant nothing.  

However, one might say that their life still meant nothing.  

Others also might become religious because of this realization, since they don't want to admit they live in an empty and lonely, uncaring world.

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 19, 2006, 05:32:20 PM
i really enjoyed that, it gives all metal one common goal and ideal to work towards, i always found contradictions with the beliefs between genres and between bands (which is inevitable considering the large amount of people trying to find meaning in different ways) but i see now all those differences were just different paths to the same course "Only death is real"  

Dunkelheit

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 19, 2006, 05:33:28 PM
I whole heartedly agree with the entire article. I think metal is a huge help and a metaphor for the nihilistic deconstruction which must take place in one's mind before they can really begin to find meaning and transcend. You'd think everyone would want to strive for transcendence, but the concept remains very esoteric. Art on the whole (including literature and music) seems to be the main source for one to learn of and be led towards enlightenment.

One thing I think about is what can metal be a stepping stone for? Should we journey further into older outlets of romanticism? Should we deconstruct life all the way, only leaving a very primitive outlook? Or should we contemplate basic existence itself?

I don't think one is ready to break it down that far just after metal, and similar literature and artwork. I think there are more things to be discovered and explored first.

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 19, 2006, 07:10:23 PM
Puts me in mind of one of my favorite literary passages:

Quote
Tibetans try to see death for what it is.  It is the end of attachment to things.  This simple truth is hard to fathom.  But once we stop denying death, we can proceed calmly to die and then go on to experience uterine rebirth or Judeo-Christian afterlife or out-of-body-experience or a trip on a UFO or whatever we wish to call it.  We can do so with a clear vision, without awe or terror.  We don't have to cling to life artificially, or death for that matter.  Waves and radiation.  Look how well-lighted everything is.  The place is sealed off, self-contained.  It is timeless.  Another reason why I think of Tibet.  Dying is an art in Tibet.  A priset walks in, sits down, tell the weeping relatives to get out and has the room sealed.  Doors, windows sealed.  He has serious business to see to.  Chants, numerology, horoscopes, recitations.  Here we don't die, we shop.  But the difference is less marked than you think.


--Don DeLillo White Noise

I've always loved this passage because, despite its deliberate absurdity, it describes the way our society really works.  We have built a culture defined by its veneration of the supreme worth of the individual human being: its institutions, its corpus of myth, its art - all exist to exalt the Sovereign "I."  Death then becomes the great enemy, because Death makes "I" meaningless.  A more realistic culture would re-evaluate its position in the face of this truth (most ancient cultures evolved an epic tradition for this reason - to reconcile man to the reality of death), but our society has far too much invested (often quite literally) in the sacred individual.  So, instead, we engage in the Dance of Death Denied hoping that if we buy the right plastic shit, worship the properly complected Jesus and vote for the right politicians, somehow, the reality of Death will be dissipated.

The problem is that not everyone is dumb enough or deluded enough to buy into this crap.  Inevitably, there are people that see the truth for what it is.  Some are broken by it - they take themselves out with pills or heroin or just put a bullet in their brains.    Some become enraged and shoot up their high schools or hijack airliners and fly them into icons of world commerce or mail package bombs to biotech profiteers.  These people are dangerous to society, but only in a very limited sense.  They are easily marginalized - they're 'fascists' who 'hate freedom.'

Some, however, choose a different course.  Rather than burning out or blowing up, they speak up.  Artists.  Philosophers.  Leaders.  These are infinitely more dangerous to the social order, because they tell the truth when others regurgitate the lie, and truth, given substance by the weight of reality, becomes rather hard to ignore once the taboo against speaking it is broken.  Like the beached whale at the seaside resort (reality intrudes upon purchased fantasy), the longer it is ignored, the harder it becomes to ignore it.  Eventually, you're going to have to admit that something smells.

As a result, our society has a built in incentive to marginalize the truth tellers.  From the perspective of the Death Deniers, it is imperative that Slayer be meaningless - if they aren't, then Death is indeed real, and, oh by the way, this society is totally fucked.  So, first they turn to mockery:

"Ha ha!  It's just dorks singing about Satan!"  

"Ha ha!  Deathklok!"

When mockery proves insufficient, appropriation must suffice.  If Burzum or Mordid Angel or Nietzsche or Wagner or Dawn of the Dead cannot be mocked into silence, then the market must puke out something that apes the form but removes the truth-telling inner spirit, replacing it with something meaningless that can be mocked.  Thus, we end up with Cradle of Filth, Cannibal Corpse, Jaques Derrida, shitty film scores and Dawn of the Dead.  

It's all rather disheartening on the surface, but if you give it a deeper look, hope blossoms in the darkness: the Death Deniers are impotent.  They cannot silence truth, nor can they make reality go away.  All they can do is mock and copy, and, in the end, they are doomed to that they fear most.


Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 20, 2006, 04:31:02 PM
Real and false christinanity ? Of course.

People like Bach that created magnificient art, think about their spirituality and God, are not false believer.

It is just more difficult in Christianity, since it's a materialistic view of the world that it approach.

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 20, 2006, 05:20:13 PM
Quote

I am also having trouble discerning if ANUS is supportive of the idea of Zen Buddhism with all of the ideas presented in the latest article and the views in this one.  Lately I have been thinking of a concept of 'true' and 'false' spirituality, which I think this article deals with a lot.  My college had a 'learn about religions week and I was one of about two or three who attended the info sessions on various religions.  I checked out Hinduism and Buddhism which are related.  Two things were immediately apparent to me: (1)The students didn't have many answers when I asked critical questions about their religion.  It seemed to me that this was because their religion didn't have any official dogma.  Secondly (2) they described meditation as a spiritual experience to a fair amount of detail.  With the ongoing research with brainscans etc. during meditation, it appears that something is really going on there, whether it has a metaphysical reality or not.  Contrast this to prayer, which seems to be more along the lines of 'me want xyz.'  That got me thinking that perhaps the 'true' meaning of religion/spirituality has no set of rules to follow, a church to go to, or dogma adhere to, but rather more of a personal journey of sorts, much like this article alludes to.

I also wonder if there is a 'true' Christianity and a false one, at least in the sense of peoples motives.  To me it seems most people go to church just to show off their clothes or whatever, but is there any evidence that suggests that some people are doing it the 'right' way?


There are about as many forms of Hinduism as there are gods, and Buddhism has about a half-dozen varieties for each country to which it spread after originating in northern India. Each religion has doctrinal texts, though you will find their organizational structure to be different than that of Christianity.

The ANUS article was directed against popular forms of Buddhism (which miss the point completely, by the way) because of the tendency in the West to adopt this monstrosity as a means of escapism from its own impending doom in the face of religious decline. Those who fall for it are the ones who seek the spirituality-without-religion combo, a species related the tv-dinner for its glossy packaging and hollow substance.

In some forms of Buddhism there are said to be two means of enlightment, gradual and sudden, though in the final analysis both means are employed. Each religion can ultimately provide a pathway to transcendence and the unity of Being--which is the goal for all of 'em--but they'll require years of investment from the faithful practitioner, before the divine light awakens the soul.

As for meditation and prayer: there's no difference whatsoever. These are just Eastern and Western labels for the same transfigurative process. Jesus sublimated his ego and became one in Being; believe it or not, black metal calls you to do the same.  

ICONOCLAST_IS_GOD

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 20, 2006, 05:57:47 PM
Why make brownies with expensive amounts of weed when you can go out and buy some salvia or mushrooms for a lot cheaper?

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 21, 2006, 08:05:50 AM
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The "Zen of Death Metal" is something I am somewhat keen on, yet I have no idea of how to relate that to anyone else.

I am also having trouble discerning if ANUS is supportive of the idea of Zen Buddhism with all of the ideas presented in the latest article and the views in this one.


Zen is a way of looking at Buddhism and life, and it is the counterpart to nihilism. All great thinkers say the same thing; there is one truth; we're all trying to describe it. Zen is the bridge between reality and abstraction, which is why if you ask a Zen monk for a definition of Zen, he'll slap you.

An Introduction to Zen Buddhism by D.T. Suzuki

Zen is what Krishna describes to Arjuna in the Bhagavad-Gita; Zen is what Odysseus describes in himself; Zen is what Conrad's heroes seek. A way to love the world and yet know when to nurture and when to prune. Zen has existed in all cultures where people got smart. There is a native form of Zen in Hinduism, and European paganism is inherently Zen. Why then do we talk about Zen Buddhism? The exotic is marketable.

Nihilism is Zen with the Indo-European twist of vir. We see reality, and accept it. We also make designs toward higher reality. There is no greater philosophy than this. The rest is metaphysics, literally, arguing over the correspondence between theory and mechanics.

Modern Buddhism is rotted and indeed I see no need for Buddhism if one has a sensible guide to Hinduism. Buddhism, after all, is a variant of Hinduism named after its sage. Hinduism sees itself as "the one true religion" because it understands all religions as descriptions of the same thing, e.g. reality; when one religion espouses this view it is the one true religion, so it's sort of a spiritualist in-joke.

I like the idea of the "Zen of Death Metal." It is a disciplined form to compose, play or appreciate in its full depth.

Vajra

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 21, 2006, 08:45:24 AM
Gathered for a sacred rite
Subconscious minds allied
Call upon immortals
Call upon the oldest one to intercede
Rid us of our human waste
Cleanse our earthly lives
Make us one with darkness
Enlighten us to your ways

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 21, 2006, 01:18:14 PM
Quote
I also wonder if there is a 'true' Christianity and a false one, at least in the sense of peoples motives.  To me it seems most people go to church just to show off their clothes or whatever, but is there any evidence that suggests that some people are doing it the 'right' way?
"

i think its just the religions meaning has been changed to suite a materialistic world. The religion focuses on spiritual well being above material objects. I think because of the huge amount of people who misuse the idea so they can be Christian but still live in our current world order.

For me its the same as Nazis, if anyone today were to call themselves a Nazi they would instantly be looked down upon and called and "evil" racist. But thats only because they only of Hitlers interpretation of Nazism and not any others (like people only know of the materialistic interpretation of Christianity).

The true meaning of Nazism is the idea of natural selection (but natural selection in the same way the Norse saw it) and believed in the idea of superior casts (again just like the Norse). It also values those who are fit to be real humans and those who are unfit, retarded of or physically impaired or those who are black or Jewish are less then animals. Hitler just used this to insight extreme hate and to wipe out all forms of animal-like humans and tried to numb the minds of his citizens (in a similar way that the Americans see they "glorious" country).

So Hitler invoked a bad form of Nazism because how he manipulated his people and made them believe anything he said. so if i were to say im a Nazi (thinking of the true term) i could expect to be considered a Hitler loving evil murderer.

So I believe there is a real and false form of Christianity. When i first got into real metal i knew the lyrics about Satan (from intelligent bands) were  
metaphorical so i was troubled by the way i was treated when i stated i was a Christian. Now i realize why they did this, i now know of what they were thinking of when i called myself Christian, they weren't thinking of my beliefs but they were thinking of the beliefs that the people on the raving Christian channels had.

Just as a final note before im trolled and flamed off this site for being a Christian i would like to state that every single idea metal seems to reflect i embrace those views and are part of my religion. I do not believe in the notion of good and evil, i just see my gods interests work in my favor rather then that of Satan's. I embrace the idea of mortality because i truly don't know what lies on the other side of death (after all its only faith and the idea of eternal paradise seems very far fetched to me). i guess the one single thing i have in common with the so called "Christians" is the fact that i believe in one god, asides from that all my beliefs are very different from the average "Christian", after all my beliefs have been more influenced by this site then the bible

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 21, 2006, 01:51:08 PM
 

Christ love is simple mindedness, like blues. Satan wants you to have nothing but pleasure, cause pain and the unknown makes you think and learn.  Of course, all the women got it completely backwards, cause the dark is scary. :'(

So death and rotting is evil and Satanic.  Hail Satan.

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 21, 2006, 02:02:04 PM
the Norse pagans believed you had to control your animal needs or you would become an animal but on certain holidays (i cant remember if it was one or more) they would indulge to an excess then return back to normal after the festivities and thus they controlled pleasure and thus did not turn into animals,
hence why i don't worship Satan, for i would rather be more then an animal  

RSF

Re: Ego death, death metal and black metal
November 21, 2006, 04:14:17 PM
Quote
The true meaning of Nazism is the idea of natural selection (but natural selection in the same way the Norse saw it) and believed in the idea of superior casts (again just like the Norse). It also values those who are fit to be real humans and those who are unfit, retarded of or physically impaired or those who are black or sandalwearerish are less then animals. Hitler just used this to insight extreme hate and to wipe out all forms of animal-like humans and tried to numb the minds of his citizens (in a similar way that the Americans see they "glorious" country).
 
So Hitler invoked a bad form of Nazism because how he manipulated his people and made them believe anything he said. so if i were to say im a Nazi (thinking of the true term) i could expect to be considered a Hitler loving evil murderer.


This is stupid all across the board. Hitler didn't invoke a "bad form" of Nazism because Nazism--that is to say the politics of the National Socialist party--were based entirely on his own convictions to begin with and, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, were given a certain populist sheen for mainstream consumption--heavy emphasis on the failures of liberal democracy not because it violates nebulous, poorly-defined standards of "natural selection" but because of its more contemporary problems--namely Germany's economic difficulties attributed by most to the terms of the Versailles treaty following WWI (see also the "Stab in the Back" theory).

Your notion of "superior casts" in Nazi ideology is also flawed. There certainly was no rigidly-defined caste system present, but rather a sort of national hierarchy placing Germany (and by extension German citizens) at the top, followed by the other Western European nations, with Eastern Europe being Germany's dumping ground for undesirables (and its western-most areas considered as living space for Germans).