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Doom metal

Doom metal
March 27, 2012, 07:03:00 PM
is boring.

I can understand slow atmosphere pieces, but most doom metal is just slowed down 1970s hard rock played on a detuned SG.

Re: Doom metal
March 27, 2012, 09:51:07 PM
I love slow riffs. They often are, or are a prelude to, the best part of a song. I'm thinking of Infester and Demigod here. But when a song is nothing but slow riffs, it is supremely boring.

Re: Doom metal
March 27, 2012, 10:44:42 PM
The DLA has some good picks like Ras Algethi.     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDIg_xDm2G4


Re: Doom metal
March 27, 2012, 10:53:28 PM
Candlemass.  Everything else that is called "good Doom Metal" is either NWOBHM or Pentagram.

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 12:57:21 AM
hard to deny doom metal in either the heavy metal or death metal variety isn't boring. then again, drone is its primary method of delivery. i always thought the mission statement was to do depressed mood music, which includes boredom.

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 03:59:00 AM
I find Cathedral-F.O.E to be a great salve in times of grotesque ass disgust, when you need to decompose and you want to at least do it with some measure of grace and take some kind of aesthetic photograph to remember it by.

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 04:54:43 AM
As a genre it's an obvious dead end, but what isn't in these times? As a compositional device I think bands could learn a lot from varying the tempos a bit more. And in a way that is probably the most defining aspect of death/black metal as it broke away from the constant high energy of speed metal in the late 80s.

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 05:41:31 AM
Doom metal is a celebration and romanticism of an ideal deemed dated and invalid by society, like all forms of metal. I do not fault bands for an orthodox reverence to the Sabbathian school. It is also a good intermediary between people who find the harshness in other forms of metal unpalatable and the ideas metal should be disseminating.
Lettin' nillas know.

I hope our aryan overlords will emerge form their l secret base below antartica and wipe all of those under 500 of IQ And don't have the ability to mindtravel into the Xerces Galaxy.

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 09:40:07 AM
Where did the name for this genre arise, does it date all the way back to Black Sabbath?
In a state of permanent Abyss

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 01:37:46 PM
Wish I knew.

Doom metal has its moments. The first Cathedral album (but go no further than this). Skepticism. Ras Algethi. Winter. Thergothon. Candlemass. The rest is stupid stoner rock, which is like the dumb moments from old Black Sabbath albums made into 24-minute blues jams.
but i'm not sure if i can tinkle in front of a crowd.

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 03:18:36 PM
Doom metal is not a genre, it's an aesthetic qualifier for slow stuff. There's no way one can seriously put Sleep, Esoteric, Cianide, Winter, Witchfinder General, and Thergothon (all great bands, by the way) into the same genre of music.

Even '80s doom, like Trouble, Candlemass, Witchfinder General, and Pentragram, shows some wild variation. Most modern stoner doom is pretty lame, but Electric Wizard and Sleep did some good shit in their heyday (Dopesmoker and Holy Mountain, respectively.) Death/doom like Cianide, Asphyx, Vallenfyre... that stuff is nowhere near a cohesive genre either. Stuff like Eternal Darkness is pretty much death metal's take on Candlemass and Solitude Aeturnus, Asphyx and Acrostichon are barely doom meta at all (more like slower death metal riffs sandwiched between fast tremolo stuff), Winter is almost more of an outgrowth of Axegrinder-style atmospheric crust punk than it is metal, and then there's bands like Cianide, who take multiple generations of "doom metal" and synthesize pentatonic Black Sabbath stuff with Hellhammer and slowed-down Master riffs (check out the first few minutes of "Gates of Slumber" for a great example of this). Some of the better modern doom metal like Hooded Menace and Decrepitaph build off of that style. There's also sort of a doomy out-growth of "melodic" death metal (which is kind of a fake genre in its own right, but I'm not touching that clusterfuck) with stuff like Misanthrope, Katatonia, and Cenotaph.

Funeral doom, however, really is something of its own sub-sub-genre. It takes the high/low guitar dichotomy of early Emperor to a new level of complex orchestration: think of the layered riffing on diSEMBOWELMENT or Thergothon's full-lengths. When you hear a funeral doom riff, you know it's different. In fact, funeral doom bands and "regular" doom bands ran into quite a bit of conflict back in the day, as a cursory examination of the thank you lists in the liner notes of Electric Wizard's and Estoeric's early album attests.

Basically, I don't really get how someone can hate doom metal, since doom metal is literally just metal played a bit slower. It's like hating anything painted blue or in the key of C sharp minor. You could even make a case for calling Burzum or Incantation doom metal: are they any less doom than Asphyx? Doom metal isn't a real genre; it's mostly just a useful term for identifying certain characteristics in music.

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 04:36:41 PM
Where did the name for this genre arise, does it date all the way back to Black Sabbath?

Generally, like most metal genres it got an "official" identity from an album title in the 80s that typifies the sound and aesthetic. Candlemass -  Epicus Doomicus Metallicus. I imagine that like with the rest of the metal genres, most pioneering bands just thought of themselves as metal and later on these bands were retroactively classified inside a genre in the late 80s and early 90s.

I do not know of any usage of the term Doom Metal before that period to describe bands such as Pentagram, Pagan Altar, Witchfinder General, Saint Vitus, Trouble etc. These bands were all seen as heavy metal or NWOBHM.
Lettin' nillas know.

I hope our aryan overlords will emerge form their l secret base below antartica and wipe all of those under 500 of IQ And don't have the ability to mindtravel into the Xerces Galaxy.

Re: Doom metal
March 28, 2012, 05:17:59 PM
Doom metal is not a genre, it's an aesthetic qualifier for slow stuff. There's no way one can seriously put Sleep, Esoteric, Cianide, Winter, Witchfinder General, and Thergothon (all great bands, by the way) into the same genre of music.

Even '80s doom, like Trouble, Candlemass, Witchfinder General, and Pentragram, shows some wild variation. Most modern stoner doom is pretty lame, but Electric Wizard and Sleep did some good shit in their heyday (Dopesmoker and Holy Mountain, respectively.) Death/doom like Cianide, Asphyx, Vallenfyre... that stuff is nowhere near a cohesive genre either. Stuff like Eternal Darkness is pretty much death metal's take on Candlemass and Solitude Aeturnus, Asphyx and Acrostichon are barely doom meta at all (more like slower death metal riffs sandwiched between fast tremolo stuff), Winter is almost more of an outgrowth of Axegrinder-style atmospheric crust punk than it is metal, and then there's bands like Cianide, who take multiple generations of "doom metal" and synthesize pentatonic Black Sabbath stuff with Hellhammer and slowed-down Master riffs (check out the first few minutes of "Gates of Slumber" for a great example of this). Some of the better modern doom metal like Hooded Menace and Decrepitaph build off of that style. There's also sort of a doomy out-growth of "melodic" death metal (which is kind of a fake genre in its own right, but I'm not touching that clusterfuck) with stuff like Misanthrope, Katatonia, and Cenotaph.

Funeral doom, however, really is something of its own sub-sub-genre. It takes the high/low guitar dichotomy of early Emperor to a new level of complex orchestration: think of the layered riffing on diSEMBOWELMENT or Thergothon's full-lengths. When you hear a funeral doom riff, you know it's different. In fact, funeral doom bands and "regular" doom bands ran into quite a bit of conflict back in the day, as a cursory examination of the thank you lists in the liner notes of Electric Wizard's and Estoeric's early album attests.

Basically, I don't really get how someone can hate doom metal, since doom metal is literally just metal played a bit slower. It's like hating anything painted blue or in the key of C sharp minor. You could even make a case for calling Burzum or Incantation doom metal: are they any less doom than Asphyx? Doom metal isn't a real genre; it's mostly just a useful term for identifying certain characteristics in music.

The case for Doom Metal not being a genre could reasonably applied to Black Metal and Death Metal too with the level of variation within different pantheons. Doom metal has some typifying traits in ideology, subject matter, composition and aesthetics that make it a genre. But because of the fact it rose from the primitive early metal, the level of variation in how those ideas can be applied varies to a greater extent than other genres. It is no more, or no less valid than the other genre terms.

The case for Doom Metal sucking is destroyed with Varathron's His Majesty at the Swamp, which again shows you how a genre like Black Metal is just as reliant on aesthetics and peripheral information as any other genre. That album is generally seen as Black Metal, but musically it's nearly pure Doom. 

The reason people here find issue with doom metal is the same reason the history of metal was redacted to exclude Venom from the pantheon of primary metal influences. I agree with the idea extreme metal has evolved into something that is not Rock n Roll, but I don't have the same fundamental disdain for rock that causes the revisionism. This is kind of like what the Jews did in the 4th century BCE when they combined a bunch of different Semitic and Egyptian myths with a healthy dose of Zoroastrianism to create the Torah, then declared adherents to the polytheistic gods of the same root religions heretics and pagans.

Dopethrone's massiveness obscures the validity in early Electric Wizard for some, but what do you think of that album in it of itself? Is that what you meant when you mentioned Dopesmoker?(which is also a sleep album, also a good one.)


BTW..Cianide is grindcore didn't you know?!

http://www.anus.com/metal/about/grindcore.html
Lettin' nillas know.

I hope our aryan overlords will emerge form their l secret base below antartica and wipe all of those under 500 of IQ And don't have the ability to mindtravel into the Xerces Galaxy.

Re: Doom metal
March 29, 2012, 04:31:12 AM
Shit, yeah, I meant Dopethrone, I always get those titles mixed up in my brain. The album right before that one is pretty good too, it's got some cool Klaus Schulze/Hawkwind-style ambient shit going on, which is something they dropped on their past few albums, unfortunately. Dopesmoker and Dopethrone are both... dope albums. I also like that Varathron album a lot: part of the reason I like the Hellenic black metal stuff like Rotting Christ and Varathron so much is that they can take old school, almost Priest-style riffs and do something new with them. I'd compare it to Dissection and Sacramentum's adoption of the folky Iron Maiden/Thin Lizzy dual guitar thing. I dig the continuity, great music from the past giving birth to newer styles. Similarly, I personally hear a lot of the more intense and riff-dense speed/thrash metal (Vio-Lence, Dark Angel) in Suffocation's pummeling assault.

I think that black metal up 'til the Norwegian stuff was a bit of a similarly "fake" genre as well: just a catch-all term for anything involving darkness, hate, Satan, and a "black" atmosphere. By the time bands like Emperor, Immortal, Burzum, Gorgoroth, and Darkthrone had said their piece, it was definitely its own genre separate from the other types of metal (though, interestingly, those bands all did dabble in some '80s style black metal with scattered songs throughout their discographies like "Warriors of Modern Death," "Possessed by Satan," and "Blasphemer"). Death metal as well, though the point where that split happened isn't quite as well defined, with a lot of albums from the late '80s and early '90s (first three from Pestilence and Death, Possessed, Demolition Hammer etc.) existing in a liminal state between death metal and older, thrash/speed metal oriented stuff.

Re: Doom metal
March 29, 2012, 08:37:32 AM
Is diSEMBOWELMENT a doom metal band?

I love those guys. Aussie too \m/