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Fate

Fate
March 28, 2012, 07:15:27 PM
Why are you you and not someone else?  You could just as easily have been your brother or sister or your cousin.  Why weren't you born 1000 years ago or 1000 years from now?  You had no say in the matter.  Fate chose you.  You were plucked from the void.  What can account for this?  It is a mystery.

Re: Fate
March 28, 2012, 07:44:25 PM
Maybe in fact  we did choose our destiny. Maybe We choose to came into our present body and to forgot all past before our birth or we were spirits who want to be of flesh and blood but the consequence was to forgot all our past. Than again, maybe  only when we are subject to time that we have a past or memories. Maybe Gods don't have remembrances, only knowledge.

And you cannot be anyone else than yourself, if not, you would not have existed, only your cousin.

Re: Fate
March 28, 2012, 08:08:27 PM
Why are 'you', 'you'?
You are not 'who' you 'think' you are.
You are not 'what' you 'think' you are, either.

Re: Fate
March 28, 2012, 08:33:44 PM
There was nothing random in how we came into being. Think about the chain of events that led us from the creation of the universe, to the first single-celled organism, on through your ancestors, culminating into your birth. Nothing was left to chance in this process. We say the universe is chaotic, but we're really just too simple to see the divine organization of all things. 


Re: Fate
March 29, 2012, 01:53:24 AM
"I" am transient: the entire notion of the self is merely the illusion generated when consciousness is filtered through sensory perception and (physical?) memory (assuming the dualistic notions born of common sense obtain, which is an incorrect way to look at the world but still better than any kind of physicalism).

Somebody with greater knowledge on the subject, please correct me if I'm wrong: does quantum superposition not suggest that the "possible worlds" framework of metaphysics is likely to be true, and that, for each possible position of a quantum, there must be a diverging universe?  If this is so, problems arise for determinism: if all universes are determined, yet all universes are possible, then the fact of determinism bears no relation to what may or may not happen in our universe.

I can clarify for people if that paragraph is difficult to understand - it's a bit muddled, given that it's almost 3:00 am here.

Re: Fate
March 29, 2012, 04:00:44 AM
The bottom line, if there is one, seems to be that it really doesn't matter.
Whatever humans believe, about whatever they have an opinion on, either way, doesn't make any difference to what is actually the case.

Re: Fate
March 29, 2012, 04:06:17 AM
Sometimes I get really swept up in notions of fate.. especially reading Carl Jung. Then I remind myself that believing in fate = narcissism is more likely than fate being legit.

Re: Fate
March 29, 2012, 02:16:29 PM
There was nothing random in how we came into being. Think about the chain of events that led us from the creation of the universe, to the first single-celled organism, on through your ancestors, culminating into your birth. Nothing was left to chance in this process. We say the universe is chaotic, but we're really just too simple to see the divine organization of all things. 



This is essentially no different than throwing bones into a bowl to determine guilt or innocence. Why was nothing left to chance? Evolution is inherently non-random. The non-randomness of evolution is kernel to the theory itself. There is no need to see a divine order to this. The very nature of the universe suggests there is no divine order. Most humans do see a divine order. We are too simple to see there is no need for it.

Re: Fate
March 29, 2012, 10:42:47 PM
The very nature of the universe suggests there is no divine order.

Haha, wow.  What a statement.  That's like ants seeing nothing comparable to or greater than them on their relatively flat plane of existence and thereby assuming that they are the highest order of being in existence (never mind the cosmically huge objects that move in unintelligible patterns and occasionally cause distinct havok amongst their species).

Re: Fate
March 30, 2012, 12:32:01 AM
Even if there were no Divine Order, what a miserable existence to imagine nothing and nobody is at the wheel, and all is random chaos.
I suppose that those who live their lives on those terms are unable to imagine how much qualitatively better life is, when not seen as chaos.
You can see the results of this worldview, all around: nobody can be 'bothered' with anything, since there is no point, anyway.
When you accept the natural order, life starts to make sense, and your personal contribution becomes a drive, for The Glory.
This has little to do with the Christian idea of God, either.

Re: Fate
March 30, 2012, 02:19:52 AM
This is essentially no different than throwing bones into a bowl to determine guilt or innocence. Why was nothing left to chance? Evolution is inherently non-random. The non-randomness of evolution is kernel to the theory itself. There is no need to see a divine order to this. The very nature of the universe suggests there is no divine order. Most humans do see a divine order. We are too simple to see there is no need for it.
This is what my post was getting at: everything happens for a reason. You are you for a reason. Life is more fulfilling when you try to look at it from a divine perspective. Our biological imperative to reproduce is just a part of the reason why we are here. Reality is more than the sum of its parts.

Re: Fate
March 30, 2012, 03:31:56 AM
The very nature of the universe suggests there is no divine order.

Haha, wow.  What a statement.  That's like ants seeing nothing comparable to or greater than them on their relatively flat plane of existence and thereby assuming that they are the highest order of being in existence (never mind the cosmically huge objects that move in unintelligible patterns and occasionally cause distinct havok amongst their species).

Ants with comparable intelligence could do the same things with science we can do and if you and I were ants, you would argue that God dropped that Pepsi can there with the sugary substance at the rim, and I would point out that all the empirical evidence clearly points to humans removing the need for a God. I can't find your analogy valid at all.

Re: Fate
March 30, 2012, 03:38:06 AM
Even if there were no Divine Order, what a miserable existence to imagine nothing and nobody is at the wheel, and all is random chaos.
I suppose that those who live their lives on those terms are unable to imagine how much qualitatively better life is, when not seen as chaos.
You can see the results of this worldview, all around: nobody can be 'bothered' with anything, since there is no point, anyway.
When you accept the natural order, life starts to make sense, and your personal contribution becomes a drive, for The Glory.
This has little to do with the Christian idea of God, either.


It is a miserable existence either way. It can only be what it is. Reality is nothing but reality. There is zero evidence of anything divine anywhere. Nothing. Silly, small and lazy arguments that appeal to romantic notions of "bigness" hold no water with me. That a God would take 4.5 billion years to create us, evolve the world so that 99.9 % of species went extinct before we came along sometime in the last few hundred thousand years(while really only being true culturally modern humans for the last few thousand) is incredible arrogance disguised as humbleness. I don't buy it.

All this theism on a site like anus is disturbing/disgusting.

Re: Fate
March 30, 2012, 03:40:57 AM
This is essentially no different than throwing bones into a bowl to determine guilt or innocence. Why was nothing left to chance? Evolution is inherently non-random. The non-randomness of evolution is kernel to the theory itself. There is no need to see a divine order to this. The very nature of the universe suggests there is no divine order. Most humans do see a divine order. We are too simple to see there is no need for it.
This is what my post was getting at: everything happens for a reason. You are you for a reason. Life is more fulfilling when you try to look at it from a divine perspective. Our biological imperative to reproduce is just a part of the reason why we are here. Reality is more than the sum of its parts.


My life is no more fulfilling than when I watch my daughter learn try something, fail, try it again, succeed, try it again, master. That is all I need.

Everything does happen for a reason. But there is no underlying music in the universe. Tolkiens, not ours.

Re: Fate
March 30, 2012, 04:56:49 AM
Some say that every thing happens for a reason is it self the most harmonious and beautiful thing -- even more than music.

Some say the best music is a finite subjective emotionally intensive illustration of the infinite, an imperfect existential rendering of the perfect.

But ultimately, saying existence is meaningless and miserable is just as deluded as saying it is meaningful and happy.

Nihilism helps us stop projecting our attitudes onto the universe, and helps us start seeing it more clearly. :)