Attention "nihilists"

[Cargést]

I'm speaking more of the stereotypical voters for those parties, not the political entities themselves.  Of the latter, I have no idea; of the former, I am quite well informed.

[scourge]

From what I gather, nihilism is just a direct restatement of the ages-old problem of first principles. Nihilism doesn't necessarily mean someone cannot ascribe value or subscribe to an existing set of values. It is impossible to be both a sane human being and avoid valuation processes during the course of life.

[Wolfgang]

From what I gather, nihilism is just a direct restatement of the ages-old problem of first principles. Nihilism doesn't necessarily mean someone cannot ascribe value or subscribe to an existing set of values. It is impossible to be both a sane human being and avoid valuation processes during the course of life.

It ceases to become nihilism if arbitrary values are again amassed. We can rise above. We can claim new ground. We cannot be ancients. We are not ancients. We have access to ideas and information and intellectual planes they did not.

We can look at the ancients and be inspired by what they did best. We can look at early America and be inspired by what was best about that era. We can look at today and pick and choose. We dont need to take on a predefined set if they don't fit today. Nihilism is a gateway out of predefined sets. These sets no longer apply. Forge a new set.

View it like metal. We can never go back and relive 1992. But we can be inspired by it.


P.S. unrelated : holy shit this Blaspherian is crushing my soul to death right now...fuck. <spontaneous namedrop>

[JewishPhysics]

It ceases to become nihilism if arbitrary values are again amassed.

No, it doesn't. From a state a nihilism, you can ascribe value to whatever arbitrary system you want for whatever reasons you want. The question is whether or not it is sane or beneficial to do so. Whatever the case, though, the paradigm is still the same.

We can rise above.

Rise above! We're gonna rise above.

[crow]

It is impossible to be both a sane human being and avoid valuation processes during the course of life.

Paradox. True and not true.
It is impossible to live a human existence, among humans, and not take on-board at least some of their obsession with value judgments.
But it is entirely possible to see this obsession for what it is, and reverse the process.
Returning to the young child state, is what this is about, while gaining great power from the arduous process.
The child starts out pure, but has no power.
The adult has become impure, but still has no power.
The sage regains his purity, and wields immense power.
Without necessarily needing to wield it.

[fallot]

We have access to ideas and information and intellectual planes they did not.

Yet they implicitly understood things (If given the chance, women are as/more promiscuous than men to the detriment of society. Usury is destructive. People/Societies need a centre, they need to be rooted to be satisfied. War is necessary. Brutal violence has its place. Patriarchy is how shit works.) that in our era verge on modern blasphemy. Yet in modernity the only plane explored is the material. It is a tautological cause-and-effect. Nature doesn't prove itself.

Why would you only look at what they did best? Would you not also look at what drove them to do the best? You can't really emulate the method if you don't have some sort of principle to stand on. Not that I think you'd be prepared to accept the methods either. Women stayed at home, pumped out kids and did traditional shit in early america while men worked. So what was best about that era? Protestant work ethic?

Incidentally I've noticed this fascination for some kind of new transcendent man/society always seems to follow liberalism/atheism. It deprives us of true transcendence, self-realization (as nothing!). Being a part of something greater.

[scourge]

It ceases to become nihilism if arbitrary values are again amassed.

Wait a minute. Nobody stated they have values x, y, and z and that this is nihilism. You made that up in order have something to falsely argue against and appear to be tearing down. Nobody even said to "become nihilism" which is absurd. This is your own statement and not that of someone else.

[Wolfgang]

You're avoiding the issue by retreating into semantics.

Nihilism means nothing(he he get it?) if we just use it as an excuse to believe in another set of garb-itrary morals. If arbitrary values are reassigned, it was never nihilism to begin with. Just a fancy way of saying "liberalths are teh fags and gays and we wanna white power".

That worked for me when I was 25 and didn't know shit. I don't think it works well enough in the real world though. To ape the argument the religulous folks were tossin' around "that perspective lacks imagination".

Strip away. Start again.

[fallot]

No arbitrary morals are being substituted. Bare cause and effect is sufficient to retreat to the past. Understanding liberalism from first principles down to effects is sufficient to decry it in any form. I don't understand your view, are these values or morals tainted by being Christian/Conservative? Whoops, value judgment, you lose the nihilism game.

[Wolfgang]

No arbitrary morals are being substituted. Bare cause and effect is sufficient to retreat to the past. Understanding liberalism from first principles down to effects is sufficient to decry it in any form. I don't understand your view, are these values or morals tainted by being Christian/Conservative? Whoops, value judgment, you lose the nihilism game.

"Retreating into the past" doesn't fit a global world with the internet, AK47s and jet fuel. You're not going to ever be able to sell people on the dehumanizing style of world view we once had.



Looks cool, but is not the answer.

[Cargést]

I was 25

Really?  I had you pegged for being around 18.  I reckon I'm probably wrong about people's ages around here quite frequently, though.

Anyway, who the fuck are you arguing with at this moment?  All I can see is you setting up craploads of straw men.  What you call "arbitrary values" might be incredibly well worked out values.

[fallot]

"Retreating into the past" doesn't fit a global world with the internet, AK47s and jet fuel. You're not going to ever be able to sell people on the dehumanizing style of world view we once had.

It fits it just fine, as is evidenced by the slow demographic victory of groups that possess it. What do you think is meant by going back to the past anyway? Literally wearing mail and weilding swords? I don't think you do but it doesn't hurt to be sure. Also, what do you mean by "dehumanizing"? If anything, it is more vitally human. There is a depth of experience there modernity cannot match; metal itself is a reflection of it.

[Wolfgang]

I was 25

Really?  I had you pegged for being around 18.  I reckon I'm probably wrong about people's ages around here quite frequently, though.

Anyway, who the fuck are you arguing with at this moment?  All I can see is you setting up craploads of straw men.  What you call "arbitrary values" might be incredibly well worked out values.

This isn't an argument, it is a discussion. My posts are directly related to numerous ones here. Cargest, please.

I'm 28. I've been posting on anus since the days of autistic garbagemen. And really, that shit was more clearer to me when I was even younger than 25. Oh it all made sense then. Too much time in college, being married, raising children, getting divorced, interacting with people in the work force etc since has made me realize the heavy metal neo nazi pseudo-conservative outlook is half-formed. I have too much perspective to redress failed systems in corpse paint and act like it is some revelation. I avoid the "you're just a kid oh I thought you were 18 no offense dude" ad hominem as much as I can, so it was disappointing to see you resort to that here. However, since you went there, I will say I find much of the perspective voice in the recent discussions to be too void of sufficient life experience to have lasting meaning.

Those values were incredibly well worked out for a period of time that no longer exists. They are no longer applicable now as they once were. If they were ideal, reason says they would have endured. We'll have to formulate new strategies for the brave new world we live in. We cannot go back. We should look back, and take what we need, and evolve forward. Devolution isn't the answer, evolution is the answer. How is this wrong?

It is fun to type about the good ol' days we were never there for and have no legitimate perspective on, and just pretend the world is %100 different, but there comes a point where too much romanticism is absurd.

Someone tell me, quite literally, how and exactly what we are going to go back to? How can that exist with the changes in the West?

[Conservationist]

It ceases to become nihilism if arbitrary values are again amassed.

Stick to realism. Some values (1) work and (2) are easily derived from analysis of reality.

Liberalism doesn't work. It's a path to death and fuckup in all of its forms.

[crow]

Liberalism could work, on a certain level.
But that level isn't ever going to be one that works for the many.
You could compare it to what 'works' on the quantum level.
Yet the very idea of it 'working' on the macro level, is ludicrous.

Reality -> we are all One.
Liberalism -> hordes of people parroting "We are all One", and having no idea why, or what that might mean.