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Drugs

Re: Drugs
April 13, 2012, 07:11:26 PM
Yes, many thanks, Tralfamadorian.  I agree that the majority of stoners waste their lives on weed, rather than using the drug as a means to various ends.  I had a period of about two weeks towards the end of last year when all I did was get stoned, and it was, in immediate retrospect, a complete waste of time - that was the point at which I decided to stop focusing on the drug and start focusing on what it could be used for (which also gave me a greater appreciation for and interest in what I was taking).

Apparently, alcoholism/addictive personality runs in both sides of my family, but I seem to have been spared the worst of it by also having a very quick habilitation speed (i.e. I generally get bored of things really easily).  The things which I stick with are usually the things which I find continuously interesting/useful - Metal is eternal, alcohol was great for a period of my life, and currently cannabis is, as cliché as it might sound, "broadening my mind's horizons", if only for allowing me pause to actually think every once in a while.  (I love how uselessly in-depth some of this stuff is.)

Crow, if someone were to state "I believe that 1 + 1 = 3, therefore 1 + 1 = 3", that would be "horseshit".  Reality does not supervene on personal opinion ; )

Re: Drugs
April 13, 2012, 07:16:46 PM
Fine. Now apply that equation to yourself.
And by 'yourself', I mean 'yourself'. Not your ego.
For all you know 1+1 does equal 3.
You'll never know, though, until you stop arbitrarily labeling anything unknown to you as 'horseshit'.
Due consideration takes care of most unnecessary problems.
Reality takes care of the rest.
Squawk!

Re: Drugs
April 13, 2012, 07:17:19 PM
I think it speaks volumes to Tralfamadorian's character that he had the cognitive ability to say "NO. I am ruining my life with these drugs." And then stop. Kudos.

I know someone similar, a good friend, who recently has rehabilitated himself after trying countless psychiatrists and rehab programs. He just bucked up and kicked the habit of smoking spice all day. Now he's training to be a boxer. I see him as an inspiration.

If you're not able to moderate your intake (as I wasn't able to at one point; much much better now) - it's best you just quit whatever it is you're doing.

All those condemning alcohol - pair some beer with food, you won't ever go back. Stouts go really well with fish and other seafood, for example.
No.

Having reviewed the thread, baby Jesus is most definitely weeping at this point.

Re: Drugs
April 13, 2012, 07:21:19 PM
Fine. Now apply that equation to yourself.
And by 'yourself', I mean 'yourself'. Not your ego.
For all you know 1+1 does equal 3.
You'll never know, though, until you stop arbitrarily labeling anything unknown to you as 'horseshit'.
Due consideration takes care of most unnecessary problems.
Reality takes care of the rest.


I label anything which contradicts my experience of the world as "horseshit", because my experience of the world is all "I" have to go on.

I'm not yet aiming to let the ego die - I'm having a lot of fun being this person, at the moment.  One day I will grow bored and begin to cease, but until then I'm going to take drugs, fuck women, play music, and live well.  The path to moksha is for those who have already raised their children into adulthood.

To emphasise and extrapolate Humanicide's point: all those condemning naturally occuring drugs must understand that the same principle applies as with pharmaceuticals - different people are affected differently.  It's no good saying "one cigarette will get you hooked for life", "smoking weed will remove your motivation and make you a silly potato", "LSD will make you schizophrenic" - these are all possibilities (well, except for the first), but it's up to the individual to see what affects him/her in what way, and, from then on, to take their own view as to what they should/should not ingest (and to what degree).  If people are going to be dumb and spend their lives getting high for the sake of it, then they'll die like that, and their children (if they manage to have any) won't fare any better.  If taking a certain drug massively augments some aspect(s) of a person's life, to minimal or no detriment, then they ought take that as a blessing.

Re: Drugs
April 13, 2012, 07:29:42 PM
Interesting perspective. I have no issues with what you describe, and why should I?
If you are aware you operate through ego, and are content to do so, you are a rare beast.
But does this awareness allow you to leave others to operate through reality, without labeling their observations as 'horseshit'?
It would - so far - appear not.
And that's a problem, that has no substance, and does no good.

Maybe ego is harmless, by itself, when it knows it is ego, and therefore not to be trusted.
It is when ego becomes the king on his throne, judging all, through a distorted lens, that devastation results.

Squawk!

Re: Drugs
April 13, 2012, 09:29:16 PM
Thanks for the commendations, dudes. I'm glad my post was found worthwhile.

I won't try to deny the fact that drugs, mainly hallucinogens and cannabis, can lead to profound planes of thought. But let it be known that much of the mental phenomena associated with drugs (ie fractal thoughts, examinations of self, everything becoming hysterical), can be achieved through spiritual discipline.

Re: Drugs
April 13, 2012, 10:42:46 PM
Agreed.
The one good thing I associate with hallucinogens, is the clear indication they can give, of human laws and society being arbitrary.
Suspecting this, one may then embark upon a journey of discovery, and possibly find that anything that drugs can provide, pales in comparison with the simple act of living in reality.
Squawk!

Re: Drugs
April 14, 2012, 01:57:41 AM
For all you know 1+1 does equal 3.
In mathematics, we define our own axioms arbitrarily. Within a given framework, there is a definitive answer as to what one plus one equals.

All those condemning alcohol - pair some beer with food, you won't ever go back. Stouts go really well with fish and other seafood, for example.
No. Alcohol is blugh. On the rare occasions that I drink, I will drink Scotch or, sometimes, homemade concoctions mixed with grain alcohol.

Re: Drugs
April 14, 2012, 02:42:12 AM
Mathematics is actually a good example.
It depends upon a baseline.
So does life, in general.
Without a baseline, there can be no right answers.
Yet this is precisely the doctrine preached by liberalism.
Squawk!

Re: Drugs
April 14, 2012, 03:22:58 PM
No. Alcohol is blugh. On the rare occasions that I drink, I will drink Scotch or, sometimes, homemade concoctions mixed with grain alcohol.

More for me then.
No.

Having reviewed the thread, baby Jesus is most definitely weeping at this point.

Re: Drugs
April 15, 2012, 01:08:35 PM
So, I took 12 Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds yesterday, combining them with some orange juice, ketchup, and peppermint in an attempt to stop some of the LAH from degrading into LSA.  For those that don't know, LAH is about as close to LSD as you can get in nature, and is possibly the main "hallucinogen" in ergine-containing flora (the other LSAs seem to be more narcotic than psychadelic, which is still an enjoyable effect).  I also smoked a nice amount of some Thai weed I brought up with me to Edinburgh, which, in combination with the vitamin C and acetaldehyde, completely annihilated the nausea I could have experienced (12 seeds is a relatively hefty dose - I was almost sick on 8, last time).

The trip was interesting, like a normal LSA trip with (what I assume to be) LSD-like visuals; much less sedation than last time, but also less of a body high.  Euphoria came and went in waves, which I attribute to the weed.  While coming up, I investigated the ways in which the drugs affected my experience of the world around me, which meant engaging in such activities as watching things go past my window, watching a movie (can't remember what it was), listening to music (Klaus Schulze, Morbid Angel, Demoncy, Emperor, Lord Wind, L. Shankar, and, bizarrely, Nightwish [whose discography I seem to have downloaded...]), and reading about religion/physics/psychadelics.  At various points, these activities became more/less enjoyable/difficult/bizarre.  It's hard to say exactly what the effects were; my concentration was fine, but the amount by which things were moving/changing/forming patterns/rippling/flowing etc. made it difficult to make out what was going on, at times.  Some audial hallucinations, eventually, and music was so ridiculously clear and distinct that I could feel it in my legs.  It was as if I were in a huge chamber under the earth, and the members of the band were playing miles apart from each other, with massive speakers all pointing towards me in the centre: each instrument was easily distinguishable from the others (I heard ITNE in a way I've never heard it before), and the patterns they made were awesome (and still are, and always have been, I suppose).

At some point, I decided to turn everything off in my room, close the curtains, put earplugs in, and just lie in darkness/silence for a long time, simply breathing.  I had some very interesting experiences during the following hours, including the development of new musical ideas, the discovery and isolation of a distinct aspect of "Englishness", a lot of personal discovery (LSA is wonderful for introspection; if it weren't for the nausea, I'd recommend it more than Salvia), and, ultimately, the total separation of the ego from the body.  For an indeterminable amount of time, I had no physical sensations at all (couldn't feel my heartbeat, or even hear the air filling my lungs), until my sensory deprivation caused my brain to start creating sounds to fill this gap in my experience, to the effect that I watched myself walking across a 2D landscape representing the music that was playing in my head (this was very enjoyable).  As with Salvia, this "became" Reality, for me - my vision and hearing were based in this weird 2D music-world for hours.

As other users have mentioned here, these drugs are incredibly useful for giving people a glimpse of what one can achieve through meditation/stillness.  I'm perfectly aware that everything that a drug does is done by my brain, and not by the drug; the drug merely acts as the catalyst for such reactions to take place, but is by no means necessary for the mental effects.  Unfortunately, I don't have the time or the patience yet to get back into any proper spiritual practice, but I do very much enjoy being able to take a day out here and there to see what I can see.  Next time I trip, I'm going to try to perform an LSH extraction; if it doesn't work, then I'll move on to acid, but I much prefer the idea of natural hallucinogens.

Phoenix

Re: Drugs
April 15, 2012, 08:25:10 PM
Yeah 12 is a lot. You had to scrape the coating off and everything? Thanks for letting me know about the LAH thing by the way, I wasn't aware of it. I agree it's a good substance for self-introspection. Personally I'm deliberately sacrificing a bit of my spiritual awareness (temporarily) to live in the thick of society in order to accomplish certain things, so in this context drugs can be good tools to keep yourself grounded.

Re: Drugs
April 16, 2012, 01:40:34 AM
I only used tea and cannabis for a few years after kicking an opiate habit, but lately I've been using kratom. It is quite amazing as far as its potential to help you work harder. I work landscaping and I've noticed it takes much much more work for muscle soreness to set in than it did when I only used tea. In addition to helping me work harder, when I get home from work it give me a body high comparable to a light hydrocodone dose. It's relaxation and stimulation in one plant.

Phoenix

Re: Drugs
April 16, 2012, 03:24:18 AM
I only used tea and cannabis for a few years after kicking an opiate habit, but lately I've been using kratom. It is quite amazing as far as its potential to help you work harder. I work landscaping and I've noticed it takes much much more work for muscle soreness to set in than it did when I only used tea. In addition to helping me work harder, when I get home from work it give me a body high comparable to a light hydrocodone dose. It's relaxation and stimulation in one plant.

You are aware of the long-term health risks though, right? I forget what they are, but I'm sure you could find it on Google (or Erowid).

Re: Drugs
April 16, 2012, 09:48:09 AM
Yeah 12 is a lot. You had to scrape the coating off and everything? Thanks for letting me know about the LAH thing by the way, I wasn't aware of it. I agree it's a good substance for self-introspection. Personally I'm deliberately sacrificing a bit of my spiritual awareness (temporarily) to live in the thick of society in order to accomplish certain things, so in this context drugs can be good tools to keep yourself grounded.

The coat-scraping thing is a myth.  The coats of HBW and MG seeds are inert, despite the numerous claims that they contain cyanide.  Cyanide gives you cyanide poisoning, not ergotism ; )

I'm not certain about the purity of the LAH using the method I used - there's a lot of discussion as to whether the adduct formed by LSA and acetaldehyde would be stable in the human body.  Many people recommend maintaining low lights/temperatures, so as to give the LSH the best chance to extract.  Peppermint tea with lemon + (tartaric acid) + 15 ground up HBW seeds + freezer + 24 hours = LSH, for the mostpart (drink quickly).

It's relatively easy to guage dosage for LSH - take as many HBW or MG seeds as you'd want to trip on and add another half of that number (e.g. 12 + 6 = 18) to get the same level trip after extraction.