post-black metal

[sans maitre]

thoughts?  is this a useful term for bands as diverse as Agalloch, Negura Bunget, Krallice, Alcest etc? (all of which I like)

ISTM there is something of a Downtown NYC Black Metal thing going with bands like Liturgy & Krallice, tying into the punk and knitting factory traditions

which would be something very different from the folkish bands like Agallioch or NB

I imagine Liturgy's manifesto and performance at the MOMA does not have too many fans here

[Conservationist]

I imagine Liturgy's manifesto and performance at the MOMA does not have too many fans here

I think it's good they introduced the topic. I think it's good they tried to do so with academic rigor. Like most things modern, they're poisoned with some modernist assumptions. But at least people are now talking about that.

Regarding post-black metal: it's a sham. They're introducing rock music at a slow pace with emo/shoegaze aesthetics and pretending it has something to do with black metal, musically or topically. It doesn't.

[Nightspirit]

thoughts?  is this a useful term for bands as diverse as Agalloch, Negura Bunget, Krallice, Alcest etc? (all of which I like)

ISTM there is something of a Downtown NYC Black Metal thing going with bands like Liturgy & Krallice, tying into the punk and knitting factory traditions

which would be something very different from the folkish bands like Agallioch or NB

I imagine Liturgy's manifesto and performance at the MOMA does not have too many fans here

I imagine Liturgy's manifesto and performance at the MOMA does not have too many fans here

I think it's good they introduced the topic. I think it's good they tried to do so with academic rigor. Like most things modern, they're poisoned with some modernist assumptions. But at least people are now talking about that.

Regarding post-black metal: it's a sham. They're introducing rock music at a slow pace with emo/shoegaze aesthetics and pretending it has something to do with black metal, musically or topically. It doesn't.

Post-Black Metal is some horrific abortion of the late 2000's. I took a dull, short and fleeting interest with WITTR based on the fact that I'm a Burzum fan, which renders them insignificant by immediate proxy. After a few months the one album I bought didn't age well at all. Now I still own it for the sole purpose of showing people that I have a physical copy of crap.

As to the hipster crap the OP is proselytizing: even worse. You know, it's like the aging caste of kvlt black metal fags that didn't move the world with their raping of the Darkthrone forumla mentally aged so far as to only distress themselves over their failures and groupthink into an ultra-sensitive ferry into the beckoning "everyone gets a trophy" hipster culture, who called them with a set of open arms. I'm old enough to at least have watched the grimmest of "ultra tr00" bands turn into these sensitive pussy-farts, and claim that they had some sort of abstract depth to their artistry the entire time. Even using kvlt and hipster in the same paragraph is damaging as it only reinforces this elitist, esoteric mindset that they have as to purely independent and underground media is the ONLY outputs of historical importance. I don't have enough time to write down all the pitiful things about these bands, or the people that buy into this shit.

Anyone can pick up a guitar and tweedle dee, tweedle dumb OH I KAN PLAYZ A POWERCHORDZ! and experiment with pedal knobs to render what they think are "thick and heavy" sounds, but are generally nothing more than an over and debilitating use of gains; then again their music is not complex in the slightest, so I don't think anyone is really *suffering* from the loss of sound quality. The biggest problem with these dudes is that they're light years BEHIND heavy metal's culture and they can't even see how dumb it looks to Hessians at large.

[sans maitre]

well that is why the name is crap - it connotes both a relationship and an implied evolution past bands like Burzum or Emperor

at some point new music needs to be made, and to pick two decent bands, Negura Bunget and Krallice have made some, but they are as different from one another as they are from early 90s Scandinavian black metal. 

.

[Conservationist]

It's all -- indie, shoegaze, emo, post-black -- warmed over post-punk. PiL, Fugazi, Rites of Spring.

[Humanicide]

It's all -- indie, shoegaze, emo, post-black -- warmed over post-punk. PiL, Fugazi, Rites of Spring.

Difference is, at least those bands were genuine about their music. Most of these post-"black metal" bands sound like they're just trying to impress someone.

[Conservationist]

TRUE.

Then again, post-black and nu-kvlt (not speaking of a band belonging to anyone in this conversation) are the same thing: imitations of the past.

Hence there's not really much except insincerity. You can ape the past in form, but, where's the content? That's what made it great.

New generations still wait to find a new voice, and they're fucking up by trying to find a new one, including the 1990s.

You have got to get eternal....

[aquarius]

The biggest problem with these dudes is that they're light years BEHIND heavy metal's culture and they can't even see how dumb it looks to Hessians at large.

Agreed, I often think of how this wasn't even an issue during the golden age of metal where we had maybe 5% of trendies vs 95% dedicated metal fanatics, and now it's the other way around. 'Post-black metal' having evolved out of that 5%.

[analrapist]

The people into metal now are just joiners, very normal, no intent to change the world at all, just want to be part.

[Examiner]

Quality is held up by standards, without them everything stagnates, or even worse devolves to cater to the lowest common denominator. Euronymous had the right idea in those regards.

[ChapelOfTorment]

I thought post-black metal was that Norwegian stuff influenced by prog rock and electronic music, like Solefald, Arcturus, later Dødheimsgard, Ved Buens Ende, etc. I mean, I don't particularly care for any of those bands eiither (aside from the first and third Arcturus albums, the first Solefald album, and some Ved Buens Ende stuff, which is interesting from a prog rock standpoint, if not a black metal one), but it's definitely all way better than these American (and lately, European) indie rock bands masquerading as black metal. I guess that's part of why Wolves in the Throne Room and other bands like them suck so much; they couldn't even pick an original name for their bullshit!

I wouldn't lump Negură Bunget in with either of those crowds (at least not their pre-reunification material); they wrote some pretty great music in their prime. I recall Om getting a lot of positive press here back in the Radio Nihil days. That album is cool (songs like "Înarborat" display an interesting fusion of early At the Gates-style dissonant polyphony and consonant melodic black metal, and stuff like "Țesarul de Lumini" does a really great job of showing how one can use lead guitar as an orchestral layer rather than something that grinds the song to a halt), but if you ask me, Măiestrit is their best. It's interesting to hear a band build on the unmistakable riffing style of De Mysteriis Dom. Sathanas and not go in an industrial direction like Thorns and Blut aus Nord (whom I also like); Măiestrit uses weird bendy riffs in the context of a dark folkloric atmosphere (with some really tasteful keyboard usage), and it works really well.

[we hope you die]

You know, I really thought that this would be an interesting discussion about this:

http://www.deathmetal.org/news/winglord-the-chosen-one/

I guess this thread perfectly illustrates why I would steer clear of using this term for anything that may seem like it suits it. 'Post' genres carry too many negative connotations to be associated with them. 

[Ymir]

I experience profound dream recall while listening to Agalloch. I think they're onto something.

I got a soft spot for Wolves in the Throne Room as well. To deny that I was genuinely moved by their music would prove me a hipster, actually. Two Hunters is a masterpiece of this genre.

[Cargést]

Agalloch seem to be one of this hit-or-miss bands which have (mercifully) passed me right by.  I can't find anything good in their music, though close friends of mine swear by it.

[Ymir]

American black metal is usually found empty due the lack of any pagan background in our culture. The only key for us is in the transcendent. Agalloch have got a good grip on this, I think. It's arguable on whether their ideas belong in metal, though. (A lot of Cure and Fields of Nephilim influence). There's a genre called dreampop. I guess Agalloch are the metal equivalent of that.