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Is metal timeless?

childrengrinder-br

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 14, 2007, 04:30:30 AM
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If metal was played to someone living in an ideal society say, 10,000 years from now would it really have an impact on them? Metal expresses dissatisfaction with current state of society and I don't think you can say that metal would be relevant outside our societal context. This is what it means to be timeless.


i don't think so, 'cause today there are many bands that make music inspired in fantasy and some bands just wanna show your technics, and this bands don't wanna know what the society, state or anyone that don't like metal will say.

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 14, 2007, 11:58:40 AM
i think the persons point was that this society will collapse far beyond that and a new (hopefully) healthier order has emerged, and since metal only tries to find reality in a pool of mud it might mean nothing to someone who is living in a society that reinforces reality

childrengrinder-br

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 14, 2007, 02:05:39 PM
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i think the persons point was that this society will collapse far beyond that and a new (hopefully) healthier order has emerged, and since metal only tries to find reality in a pool of mud it might mean nothing to someone who is living in a society that reinforces reality


yes, i understood it, and i think metal will survive, but it will be appreciate by few persons around the world, as the classic music, that today few persons listen and love it...

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 14, 2007, 03:25:22 PM
if this society collapses possible billions will die, of the few that exist that understand the philosophical (and musical) conventions of metal its hard to believe that the few that understand metal will survive



childrengrinder-br

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 15, 2007, 02:16:13 AM
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if this society collapses possible billions will die, of the few that exist that understand the philosophical (and musical) conventions of metal its hard to believe that the few that understand metal will survive




it never will happen

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 15, 2007, 01:45:02 PM
well our population is increasing incredible fast (about every 30 years we get another billion people on the planet) and all of them want the high powered lifestyle we live, with the people here we are already using far o much fuel and wood for the planet to sustain us and its only going to get worse, food will eventually become scarce

now what happens when a nation has no real source of fuel, wood is far to expensive to spread among its citizens, water and air are hazardously polluted and food is being spread among to many people  

When this happens people will live in a state of poverty and will eventual course mass riots and eventually many wars will be waged over the few remaining important resources

Nations lose billions of dollars because there is nothing to trade anymore and any form of currency becomes almost worthless

Because in a democracy people are inclined to do what brings them immediate pleasure despite long term problems and are encouraged to want more to make there lives more comfortable they will not give up there way of life easily (other wise the hunger problem in the 3rd world countries would be a thing of the past)

Also our figure heads only stay in power when people want them to be in power, so they give people what they want now because if they restrict what we can have to save the future they would not be elected and so resources get used up incredible fast and they rate they get used up increases (with the amount of possessions we want and the population)

and so we are stuck on a path for destruction and we cannot avert it, once our society collapses from it idiocy will metal be remembered?

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 15, 2007, 04:10:41 PM
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in a democracy people are inclined to do what brings them immediate pleasure despite long term problems and are encouraged to want more to make there lives more comfortable they will not give up there way of life easily (other wise the hunger problem in the 3rd world countries would be a thing of the past)


That's the real problem. Everybody wants to be king, and a world full of kings can't serve itself.

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 15, 2007, 11:35:24 PM
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Because in a democracy people are inclined to do what brings them immediate pleasure despite long term problems and are encouraged to want more to make there lives more comfortable they will not give up there way of life easily (other wise the hunger problem in the 3rd world countries would be a thing of the past)  


Where did you get this idea from? It's wrong - the structure of government cannot define people's group consciousness, thus determining their decisions and voting. I cannot see how democracy can INHERENTLY make people want short-term pleasures, excluding the possibility of voting for representatives who do have long term sustainable policies. Democracy often fails today because of our machine-like way of living under the self-serving corporate state. It is machines that are satisfied by meaningless comforts to support their existence, whereas in our natural (human) state we yearn to grow and learn. Educate the masses first and then the change will come.

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 16, 2007, 09:36:55 AM
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I cannot see how democracy can INHERENTLY make people want short-term pleasures, excluding the possibility of voting for representatives who do have long term sustainable policies.


If you set up a certain system based on certain values, people act on those values and expand upon them. So if you create a Communist state where repeating the propaganda is most important, then people start to extend that to caring less about what they do and more about showing each other how propagandistic they are.

It is like in metal how we have hipsters. When metal was obscure, it was harder for hipsters, but now that metal is a profitable mainstream genre, people are encouraged to think about it as an identity and eventually to become emo hipsters.

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 16, 2007, 11:34:34 AM
A democracy is based on no necessary "values". It is simply rule by the people. And you can't seriously compare democracy, a civic system of popular representation, with communism, an economic ideology based on proprietary equality.

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 16, 2007, 12:20:25 PM
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A democracy is based on no necessary "values". It is simply rule by the people.


Rule "by the people" presupposes an equal placement of value on the votes of each individual, from which one must logically deduce that the ability of all individuals to make decisions is thereby also valued equally. Such is a system of values, is it not?

It must be, and therein lies the problem. For any system of values to approximate Reality, their fundament cannot be based upon easily understood constructs of "good" and "evil," which are merely relative determinations, but upon universal Knowledge of Truth and Falsehood. Such Knowledge, however, shall never be understood by any human majority, for it deals with that which greater than the human; thua, even if they were to understand, they would see little utility in it for their own sake, and in doing so, would resist it.

childrengrinder-br

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 17, 2007, 02:56:47 PM
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That's the real problem. Everybody wants to be king, and a world full of kings can't serve itself.



not all, just some arrogant persons

Re: Is metal timeless?
January 17, 2007, 07:07:50 PM
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I cannot see how democracy can INHERENTLY make people want short-term pleasures


democracy doesn't inherently promote such things, this idea began during the 60s as a way of extreme liberalism, the idea was if everyone does what they want and gets what they want (unless it conflicts with what another can do or wants) it must be good and it has been the defining notion of our political system now

it did not start this way and this was not the intention but the system was to liberal and once the people had the idea to have more it began to escalated to a point where people will fight for there trivial possessions even so its going to kill there children several generations down


Re: Is metal timeless?
January 18, 2007, 08:54:59 AM
If you tell people that all that matters is their own personal comfort and material well-being and political freedom, that leaves a lot out, doesn't it?


Re: Is metal timeless?
January 18, 2007, 09:25:59 AM
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Where did you get this idea from? It's wrong - the structure of government cannot define people's group consciousness, thus determining their decisions and voting. I cannot see how democracy can INHERENTLY make people want short-term pleasures, excluding the possibility of voting for representatives who do have long term sustainable policies. Democracy often fails today because of our machine-like way of living under the self-serving corporate state. It is machines that are satisfied by meaningless comforts to support their existence, whereas in our natural (human) state we yearn to grow and learn. Educate the masses first and then the change will come.



There's obviously a connection between democracy and myopic thinking, but I submit that democracy is the effect, rather than the cause...