Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

What would a metal society look like?

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 10, 2007, 01:39:58 PM
Quote
Hlidskjalf: Your being too elitist about it. Music is what music is. People like it for what it. The whole point of going to shows is the atmosphere, the pits, the people, etc.


Sometimes people feel insecure about their own limitations, so naturally gravitate to statements like "X is what X is", which is really only a semi-cryptic way of saying "X can never be more than a reflection of my own psyche, because otherwise that would be threatening and imply that my own perspectives and thought processes are incomplete".

This is what happens when we create a society that values everyone's opinion equally. The least qualified of us suddenly have the "right" to define all things as they see fit. When we apply this on a civilization sized scale, we have a vast populace fleeing en masse into individualistic, solipsistic fantasy worlds. This is both dangerous on a global ecological level and extremely boring for the minority of us who wish to reach higher.

Let's work together to systematically take that right away.

Perhaps we should shift this discussion for the moment from "what would a metal society look like" to "what purpose would a metal society fill".

I see the possibility of Hessian communities providing a basis for Hessians to support each other through mutual aid on a practical, social and ideological level. When we work together to ease each other of our financial and work related burdens, we all have to work less. This means collective housing, collective farming, and skillsharing; a functioning, real world community with each person fulfilling a role. Reducing our dependence on "the system" to an increasingly minimal level, this provides us with more time to develop ourselves, our ideas and our goals. Working collectively on our ideas and goals ensures that we are more realistic and that our actions are more potent.

What ideas and goals are we talking about?

Well, this basically comes down to the question "What is the point of being Hessian".

Answer: To be a Hessian is to recognize and LIVE the direct relationship between Hessian music and certain ideologies, ways of viewing the world and ways of shaping our lives. This can possibly include nationalism, "fascism" (a crude catch-all word for the '3rd Position'), the establishment of a more holistic community that is directly linked to the natural world, the establishment of a more spiritually rich society, the establishment of a society that is alive with Vir, and so on and so forth.

People unfamiliar with the ideas I'm talking about should look deeper into the literature being put out by Corrupt and ANUS. Ultimately, "Hessianism" is the link between these ideas and heavy metal music.

A Hessian community = the literal, real world networking and mutual support of like minded Hessians for the purpose of fulfilling Transcendant, "Third Positionist" goals.

Murder_Soul

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 10, 2007, 03:33:24 PM
Quote

The whole point of going to shows is to become 'generic' then. You are being contradictory in your statements.

Well then, what do you do at shows? Personally, I don't go to shows. I don't see much of a point. Maybe at some later time, but not now.

Quote

Sometimes people feel insecure about their own limitations, so naturally gravitate to statements like "X is what X is", which is really only a semi-cryptic way of saying "X can never be more than a reflection of my own psyche, because otherwise that would be threatening and imply that my own perspectives and thought processes are incomplete".

This is what happens when we create a society that values everyone's opinion equally. The least qualified of us suddenly have the "right" to define all things as they see fit. When we apply this on a civilization sized scale, we have a vast populace fleeing en masse into individualistic, solipsistic fantasy worlds. This is both dangerous on a global ecological level and extremely boring for the minority of us who wish to reach higher.

Let's work together to systematically take that right away.

Perhaps we should shift this discussion for the moment from "what would a metal society look like" to "what purpose would a metal society fill".

I see the possibility of Hessian communities providing a basis for Hessians to support each other through mutual aid on a practical, social and ideological level. When we work together to ease each other of our financial and work related burdens, we all have to work less. This means collective housing, collective farming, and skillsharing; a functioning, real world community with each person fulfilling a role. Reducing our dependence on "the system" to an increasingly minimal level, this provides us with more time to develop ourselves, our ideas and our goals. Working collectively on our ideas and goals ensures that we are more realistic and that our actions are more potent.

What ideas and goals are we talking about?

Well, this basically comes down to the question "What is the point of being Hessian".

Answer: To be a Hessian is to recognize and LIVE the direct relationship between Hessian music and certain ideologies, ways of viewing the world and ways of shaping our lives. This can possibly include nationalism, "fascism" (a crude catch-all word for the '3rd Position'), the establishment of a more holistic community that is directly linked to the natural world, the establishment of a more spiritually rich society, the establishment of a society that is alive with Vir, and so on and so forth.

People unfamiliar with the ideas I'm talking about should look deeper into the literature being put out by Corrupt and ANUS. Ultimately, "Hessianism" is the link between these ideas and heavy metal music.

A Hessian community = the literal, real world networking and mutual support of like minded Hessians for the purpose of fulfilling Transcendant, "Third Positionist" goals.

What your describing is communism for a metal community.

Now, I'm not going to address all your points, but heres what I think.

Most people with your mentality are nuts. Metal is music. You seem to want to make it a social class and make everyone the same. Metals music. Without individuality, the music will fall. If everyone had the same mentality as you and other here have, every band would sound the same. Much like a fellow member made about how metal has to be anti-religion. No it doesn't, it's a style of music. people can do what they want.

I see no point in your "metal society" because as you describe it, it has nothing to do with music, you just want to make a fascist commune. How does this have anything to do with the music?
Furthermore, who are you to define who's the "least qualified"? I'm pretty sure if we talked to almost all of the bands you guys admire, they would think your nuts. Metal doesn't have anything to do with this, it's a form of music, an art.

So I don't think I'm going to bother even continuing this argument. From reading the whole Nile raid, you guys seem to have a philosophically retarded view of things, that it would be pointless to argue about.

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 10, 2007, 03:44:25 PM
Murder_Soul, I won't waste my time correcting your spelling mistakes, it would take me approximately one year or so.
Now, tell me, why are you here then? For the music? This forum isn't only about the music, but about the ideas behind them. Metal cannot be considered as simply entertaining music. Since, it's quite obvious to me, that the imagery used isn't suited for that purpose. Are you one of those that enjoy shows? Showing his new metal t-shirt? Smoking some weed and hailing to Satan like there's no tomorrow?
That's what you sound like.


Murder_Soul

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 10, 2007, 04:02:23 PM
Quote
Murder_Soul, I won't waste my time correcting your spelling mistakes, it would take me approximately one year or so.
Now, tell me, why are you here then? For the music? This forum isn't only about the music, but about the ideas behind them. Metal cannot be considered as simply entertaining music. Since, it's quite obvious to me, that the imagery used isn't suited for that purpose. Are you one of those that enjoy shows? Showing his new metal t-shirt? Smoking some weed and hailing to Satan like there's no tomorrow?
That's what you sound like.

 

Actually I originally came here because I thought it seemed like a cool metal forum. Read a few posts then decided to stay away because of the elitism here.

I then came back after seeing the lies spread about Chuck S chuldiner asking for proof, when no one could back them up.

Spelling mistakes? Don't really care about that here.
Satan? Well, first off, most black metal bands talk about Satan as a literal deity, so these bands you admire go against your beliefs. Personally I think Satan was made up by the Christians, seeing as I have no proof in his existence.
Weed? Tried it once. Found it to not be worth it. I really have no use for drugs.
Showing a metal shirt? I do wear a few band shirts, but as do most people. I'll support the bands I like however I like.

I suggest you go talk to some of these bands that you admire on myspace or email about your ideas. I'm sure they don't share the same ideas. I'm sure most will wonder what the hell your talking about. Metal can be about anything. What each band portrays is it's own ideas. Even the nihilistic bands will think you Nietzscheians are nuts.

And since we're talking, I have 1 question on this subject. I'm assuming you've read Nietzsche's works. In TOTI for instance, Nietzsche claims that Nihilism is the result of a Christian realizing the death of god, and proceeds to attack nihilism.

Now, even though you guys don't believe in true nihilism, but instead, Nietzsche's ideas and labeling them nihilism, why do you guys label your selves nihilists? Even more so, do you realize that Nietzsche was against Nihilism?

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 10, 2007, 04:19:16 PM
Quote
Most people with your mentality are nuts...


I hate to have to remind you of this, but the people who rule society, who invent things, who create ideas and make things happen are ALWAYS regarded as "nuts" by the majority of human beings.

Anyway, I wasn't attempting to win you over. When I was talking about depriving people of rights, I was talking about you. Your opinion doesn't matter anywhere reality, and especially not here. You were born to be a slave, and you will fulfill that task until you die, regardless of whom your master is.

Now. Consider that you're wasting our time. You have no desire to contribute. You obviously haven't familiarized yourself with the background material. We're not trying to include you. We're trying to come up with ideas and put them into practice. Don't post here anymore if you have nothing to contribute except for the rancid air that your whining amounts to.


Murder_Soul

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 11, 2007, 10:49:39 AM
Quote

I hate to have to remind you of this, but the people who rule society, who invent things, who create ideas and make things happen are ALWAYS regarded as "nuts" by the majority of human beings.

Anyway, I wasn't attempting to win you over. When I was talking about depriving people of rights, I was talking about you. Your opinion doesn't matter anywhere reality, and especially not here. You were born to be a slave, and you will fulfill that task until you die, regardless of whom your master is.

Now. Consider that you're wasting our time. You have no desire to contribute. You obviously haven't familiarized yourself with the background material. We're not trying to include you. We're trying to come up with ideas and put them into practice. Don't post here anymore if you have nothing to contribute except for the rancid air that your whining amounts to.


What am I a slave to? Your forgetting the basic aspect of nihilism, there is no absolute truth. Whatever your truth is, doesn't apply to me, and vice versa.

How are you guys going to bring upon any change? You don't rule society, your not inventing things, your talking about your theories on a board.


Just remember, nihilism is a Christian moral. Your claiming that there is an ultimate truth to be achieved, and there isn't. An active nihilist tries to destroy all values, including truth, which you claim to have.

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 11, 2007, 11:19:09 AM
Quote
An active nihilist tries to destroy all values, including truth, which you claim to have.


Wrong. An active nihilist realizes there is nothing to destroy. You and I, and everything we perceive, are nothing more than a fart in the wind. Once one acknowledges that manifestation is illusory, things become interesting; coincidentally, it isn't until then that one can act upon the present circumstances effectively.

You're either working towards the dissolution of the modern nightmare (disengaging the circuit breaker), or you and your ego will inevitably meet the same fate as these children and their plastic bag:


Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 11, 2007, 12:17:33 PM
Quote
What your describing is communism for a metal community.

Actually, not.

A disturbing trend I've noticed on the forum recently is for some moron to find a common thread between two ideologies and then claim that they are identical.  Similar logical ignorance occurs conversely, when two ideologies are not identical and are perceived as lacking any intersection.  Stated that way, I believe you can see where you erred.

As far as I understand, communism as a political-economic ideology attempts to create a society where all productive means (capital) are owned collectively, often regulated by a strong central government.  To achieve this it panders to the masses, feeding on the resentment of their own ineptitude to revolt against the successful few.  In practice, communism is associated with catastrophic failure: incompetence, famine, oppression, inefficiency - even less than the sum of its parts.

Communism is NOT the same as living in a communal fashion.  Humans are social creatures, and since the beginning of the species we have organized into "tribes" that pooled together resources out of necessity.  It provided protection against natural disasters (drought, floods, etc) and invading tribes, and allowed the community to take advantage of the relative skills of each member.

The largest difference between that and what we experience in modern society, was the necessity of individuals to simply fail, to be rejected and left behind for the good of the tribe.  Humanity made its greatest evolutionary progress in that time.  That is actually very contrary to democracy, liberalism, and especially communism, which seek to establish justifications for every member's existence and sustain as many as possible.  Or rather, those members who conform to the prescribed view of reality.  That is where they derive their "strength," which is inevitably a suicidal end.

What many of us on this forum have perceived is that modern society is broken.  Why continue repeating its mistakes?  Why debate pointless definitions?  Let's find a better path forward and attempt to follow it.  It turns out that 1000 people each with his own different mind and direction, spread all over the world will never be heard or effect real change.  Like a mall shooting, you will have shock press coverage for a few days or weeks and then fade back into obscurity.

As DionysianDeath has stated, we are not interested in the masses.  They will always follow the most convincing leaders, and right now those leaders are corrupt, selfish, and short-sighted.  The few who see that need to step up into that void.  Not "metalheads", not "elitists" or "fascists", but capable individuals.  Those who see the challenge ahead and despair, are fools and NOT the sort to be included in this vision.

I see nothing wrong with small groups of like-minded people (tribes) distancing themselves from society, it is after all more logical than merely sitting on your ass and complaining.  There are then at least two tasks: to fortify the tribe and await the impending collapse, also to make periodic "excursions" into society to recruit new members and spread propaganda (we'd be great at that :D).

So what role does music and in a greater sense art, play in this vision?  You have to understand that art is not only about the senses, but the mind as well.  It always communicates ideas, and what is an idea to your ear or your eye?  Just an electrical signal which can activate certain parts of the brain to feel pleasure or disgust.  If that is where the average person stops, then so be it.  They do NOT define the whole nor the aspirations of a few.

Further, as art communicates ideas then it may be a more direct method than words.  We can waste many words and perhaps never reach the same connection or lucidity implied by a single piece of great art.  We can express our common interests through that art, and as it evolves come closer to what we truly mean.

If for example, we wanted to establish a society which respects and nurtures classical Indo-European philosophy and spirituality, then what better expression of this goal than great classical art?  I won't pretend that most metal fits into this category, it is limited in some ways by its origins (those of sex, drugs, and pointless expressions of individualism) and also because people do not take it seriously.  Metal possesses certain worthy strands however: heroism, love of nature, acceptance of death, survival of the strong.

The opinion of the artist is only technically relevant, their work may be more or less significant than they realize.  Though as a rule, moronic artists will create moronic art and as with every aspect of society they are none too few.  Sometimes I think this site assigns more value to certain music than its worth, but as with the paradox of complaining and doing nothing to change, there is little value in your argument without offering a better alternative.

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 11, 2007, 04:00:07 PM
A metal society would probably be like the small towns of central Europe.

People don't work much, but when they do, they do something that's actually vital.

They spend a lot of time in contemplation or enjoying each other.

Sometimes, they drink and raise hell and even sometimes get killed.

They are intolerant of those who are weaker, stupider, or from elsewhere.

They know they're mortal. They know no religion or purchased thing can fix that. They don't spend much time shopping.

You can't find a minivan anywhere.

They do not have a sense of charity. People who need charity are encouraged to go elsewhere, because they're useless.

They know that every extra person they take on means they have to work harder, so they want these people to be good people, capable of doing good things.

No middle managers as a result.

Last guy who came through selling iPods was found hanging from a tree with a severed negro arm four foot deep in his dead ass.

JJ

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 27, 2007, 06:27:38 PM
Quote
What am I a slave to? Your forgetting the basic aspect of nihilism, there is no absolute truth. Whatever your truth is, doesn't apply to me, and vice versa.

How are you guys going to bring upon any change? You don't rule society, your not inventing things, your talking about your theories on a board.
 


You're a slave to mediocrity that is modern society. The basic aspect of Nihilism is Reality, which applies to every one. The reality of metal shows is the music and people are AIDS infested because metal culture became identical to the domiant culture created for commoners.  

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 28, 2007, 05:44:46 AM
Quote
The reality of metal shows is the music and people are AIDS infested because metal culture became identical to the domiant culture created for commoners.  


This is why metalheads despise sell outs.

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 29, 2007, 02:29:03 PM
Quote

You're a slave to mediocrity that is modern society.
How so? I don't try to "fit in", which I guess your trying to say. If I did, I would wear abercrombie and listen to emo and/or rap. if thats not what you mean, then chances are you too are a slave to mediocrity.
Quote
The basic aspect of Nihilism is Reality, which applies to every one.

Wrong. The basic concept of nihilism is nothing. Nihilism is the belief in nothing, and that there is no purpose to life. Some here argue that you can give life it's own meaning, but thats just silly, since you can't give nothing value.
Quote
The reality of metal shows is the music and people are AIDS infested because metal culture became identical to the domiant culture created for commoners.  
So, if the music is "AIDS infested", why do you listen to it?


And one other thing, what is it with you people and AIDS? Do you have some sort of fetish for it? It really just seems immature and childish. Ok, if you don't like something, why not just say that you don't like it, instead of insisting it has AIDS? Much like the silly remarks involving Evil Chuck I see on here.

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 30, 2007, 03:59:41 AM
Quote
The basic concept of nihilism is nothing. Nihilism is the belief in nothing, and that there is no purpose to life. Some here argue that you can give life it's own meaning, but thats just silly, since you can't give nothing value.


Nothing is a value, as opposed to an absence of value, so it necessarily creates other values.


Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 30, 2007, 07:38:49 AM
How can nihilism be a belief when beliefs would mean nothing? Nihilism is therefore not a belief in what reality is; it is reality.

Re: What would a metal society look like?
December 30, 2007, 06:37:29 PM
Quote
How can nihilism be a belief when beliefs would mean nothing? Nihilism is therefore not a belief in what reality is; it is reality.

No, it is a belief that reality, does not exist. I guess the reasoning is, once you die, your dead. Thats it. Nothing can't become something. 0 can't become 1 or hold any value. Your suggesting a paradox.
Quote

Nothing is a value, as opposed to an absence of value, so it necessarily creates other values.


No. Nothing is nothing. Your creating a paradox.