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What is 'Wisdom', anyway?

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 22, 2012, 06:53:55 PM
Who is "we"?
What qualifies you to speak for others "getting it"?
This isn't about you.

And what is "old as fuck"?
Does saying that immerse you in perceived coolness?
It makes you seem, to me, like a childish halfwit.
So much for "no offense".
If you're gonna be offensive, then at a minimum, do it honestly.

I am approaching 60, and when (if) you arrive there, yourself, you will discover it really isn't anything like you thought it was from your own distant youth.
Unless you have become, by then, a dissipated, clapped-out know-nothing, along the way.


Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 22, 2012, 08:08:55 PM
Who is "we"?
What qualifies you to speak for others "getting it"?
This isn't about you.

And what is "old as fuck"?
Does saying that immerse you in perceived coolness?
It makes you seem, to me, like a childish halfwit.
So much for "no offense".
If you're gonna be offensive, then at a minimum, do it honestly.
That statement was an attempt at humor. Apparently a poor one. Think of me what you will from that. Like you said, "this isn't about [me]."

Quote
I am approaching 60, and when (if) you arrive there, yourself, you will discover it really isn't anything like you thought it was from your own distant youth.
I don't doubt it.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 22, 2012, 09:02:55 PM
Fair enough.
Not a halfwit then.
I apologize for missing the humor.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 22, 2012, 10:27:52 PM
How about this:  if knowledge is what is inside a book, then wisdom is one's ability to navigate a "library of books" efficiently and know which books are the best, most useful and most essential.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 22, 2012, 11:17:32 PM
Wisdom does not require books.
Although, as you say, it might help to have a clear idea of where to look, and what to look for.

If knowledge really was inside a book, then wisdom might be the ability to resist reading it.
There is nothing wrong with books, or reading. It can be the way those things are approached, that might be detrimental to wisdom.

Somebody asserted, a few days back, that I must have read books, to bring me to where I am.
Of course I did. Never claimed otherwise. I report that I do not read books now, and haven't for some years.
The few books I did read, other than every science-fiction novel I could find, were by Edgar Cayce, Carlos Casteneda, and a single translation of Lao Tzu.

Books may hint at what someone, somewhere, has discovered.
They may contain a description of wisdom.
But they can never contain the wisdom they describe.
That only comes, or doesn't come, from first-hand experience. 
And that generally entails having lived long enough to have had experience.
I was already halfway through my life, before I knew this.





Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 22, 2012, 11:54:56 PM
Something worth mentioning, which hasn't been mentioned (possibly because it is actually very obvious) is that the mechanism by which wisdom has typically been "stored" and "passed on" is through tradition. Tradition is of course a great tool for this, since tradition works whether we understand it or not, and is usually recognized as such. However, with the cultural insurrection that has laid waste to such a foundational necessity, passing down wisdom has become, if not impossible, a fucking nightmare.

At least, that seems like a rather logical explanation. And the guilty party rears its ugly head again.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 12:08:35 AM
And that is a damned good observation.
I've always had the utmost respect for true traditions, whether or not I 'liked' them.
And I've often wondered why that was.
Your insight makes sense of it.


Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 02:40:57 PM
Metaphorically speaking, of course.  Wisdom is to knowledge, what the ability to navigate and use a library is to the books in the library.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 06:07:37 PM
It reads/communicates better like that.
Furthermore: this whole concept of libraries is a very interesting one...

I hold that 'knowledge' is best employed when one does not 'possess' it.
But rather 'accesses' it, on a need-to-know basis.
How this may be accomplished, defies any attempt to explain, but bear with me:

Often, when I write, I am not conscious of any thought-process taking place.
I do it very fast. I write whole essays in minutes. Usually in oddly short sentences, like these.
When I am done, I proof-read it, once, for typos, and notice...

I didn't know I knew what I had written, until I wrote it!

I have no idea what is going on, when I do this, but it happens far too often to ignore.
It seems I know very little, consciously, but that I have access to a vast store of knowledge, when necessary, and this store is accessed with no 'thought' whatsoever.

Thus I imagine that wisdom has a lot to do with accepting reality without mentally modifying it.
Using what-is, as-is, without guile or bias.

So what is wisdom?
It may well be the ability to suspend thought, and operate on a whole other level.

I didn't know I knew that, until I wrote it :)


Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 07:58:15 PM
Often, when I write, I am not conscious of any thought-process taking place.

...

It seems I know very little, consciously, but that I have access to a vast store of knowledge, when necessary, and this store is accessed with no 'thought' whatsoever.

Thus I imagine that wisdom has a lot to do with accepting reality without mentally modifying it.
Using what-is, as-is, without guile or bias.
This raises an interesting empirical question. It's well established that the mind subconsciously filters information prior to any awareness. These filters are malleable and can be altered by culture and experience. Wisdom is therefore possibly related to experience slowly tuning these filters/lenses/whatever to the right settings, such that our brains are adjusted to viewing things more closely to how they are instead of a warped and distorted view.

This is admittedly rather speculator and simplified pop-psychology, but there must be something to it.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 08:05:09 PM
Go on: go with it.
What other ideas occur to you, on this?
They don't have to 'make sense' in everyday terms.
This is cutting edge spiritual research.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 09:25:32 PM
Go on: go with it.
What other ideas occur to you, on this?
They don't have to 'make sense' in everyday terms.
This is cutting edge spiritual research.
This could go all over the place, so I'll stick to the immediate:
Assuming the hypothesis is true, this means wisdom is associated with a structural aspect of the mind and that knowledge emerges from the conscious mind and other unconscious elements utilizing this structure.

Another immediate extension: Since nature is a cruel bitch that bends everything towards her will, there should be a natural tendency towards properly tuning the filters with age and experience. However, the influence of culture (and related phenomena) could vary. Culture "in tune" with reality will aid this process and help maintain the integrity of the structure; culture "out of tune" will compromise the integrity of the structure.

This could naturally be extended to spread light on certain things. Given that there is a general tendency of this process associated with age, we can see that certain politics (specifically conservative) are correlated with this phenomenon. Similarly, others (like liberalism) are inversely related. The conflict between a naturally forming conservative structure with liberal ideology will create internal cognitive dissonance. This will produce bizarre thought patterns and possibly suffering. It's known that conservatives generally report being happier than liberals. (This thread of thought could obviously be continued.)

This also raises a question about how artificial environments could affect this process. This would directly explain the need for certain institutions (especially universities) to have an insulated and isolated nature. In order to counteract the natural tuning, people must be isolated and forced into narrow environments that only (and constantly) reinforce whatever ideology is being used for indoctrination (e.g. political correctness). (This too could continue.)

There are a number of questions that arise. However, without proper empirical investigation, it's difficult to know where to go with it. I'll have to consider this more before making another contribution of thought. I think alternate perspectives might also help shed some light.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 09:44:07 PM
Thank you.
You've just created - out of thin air - a whole new philosophy.
Nobody else came before, because they couldn't: nobody ever found their society in this particular and unique state.
I am amazed.
And very pleased :)

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 10:37:55 PM
liberals think they deserve to live or to be happy just because they are alive. True conservatives know that humans don't deserve to live fondamentally. Life is a gift given freely by the Gods and not an human right. All we can do is to honor the gift of life the best we can until our return in the absolute. it's a reason why conservatives are more happy, at least more serene generally than liberals. They see life in a bigger frame.

Re: What is 'Wisdom', anyway?
September 23, 2012, 10:43:12 PM
I see you've been reading amerika.org :)