War Against the Wise: Divide and Conquer

[Dinaric Leather]

Somewhat overlapping with the thread made about lack of youth alternatives, it's hard not to notice it's difficult for bright kids to meet each other. Ever since the scene fell apart more or less completely in the mid 90's it's been hard for kids on the same page to meet each other.

No wonder we aren't getting any great bands anymore, the underground scenes that they would meet each other in have evaporated. Churches and Universities are obviously no longer places of thought either, generally speaking.

[scourge]

So we need a twofold social and institutional mending to take place to connect these - let's call them elite youth - back together. What I can gather from this is the political egalitarian campaign has been thorough even as it continues to rage on to this day.

Where did the once thriving elitist ideology go? Strangely, it has been assimilated by holier-than-thou liberalism, which has been given the credibility and power to enact reward and punishment for allegiance or lack thereof.

The reward and punishment capability for behavioral compliance itself takes place institutionally (church, universities), socially (hipsters, journalists), and to no small extent by punitive legalistic means (civil rights, welfare).

[JewishPhysics]

I haven't been to church in over a decade and have seen many churches filled with ideological garbage, but the remaining sane ones may be the answer. Churches are one of the last places where traditional culture and heritage don't have a bad name. At the very least, this would imply they are the institutions for which the effort to restore is minimal. Also, they have some of the most interconnectedness to other institutions (e.g. schools) and have an inherently social dynamic.

[fallot]

The elites have been subverted. The people who actually do stuff, who are capable and extraordinary, are all similar across humanity. Liberalism does not sustain itself with the dumb and deluded, but with the deluded elite. These smart kids are on somethingawful and reddit masturbating, playing videogames all day and trying to one-up each other in the PC Olympics. Nothing is good and woe unto him who claims something is. I can easily see myself as one of these sick people if circumstances in my life were different, I am a "natural liberal". I am sure many of the posters here are.

[Dinaric Leather]

Liberalism does not sustain itself with the dumb and deluded, but with the deluded elite.

This is an important observation everyone here should ruminate on, but I would replace "deluded elite" with "those of above average but not genius intelligence" because at a certain level of intelligence, one can no longer buy into liberalism.

I am a "natural liberal".

I am not trying to insult you, but there is no non-insulting way to say this: If you truly are a "natural liberal", you must either be female or an effeminate man. Liberalism is in direct opposition to masculine tendencies. Don't get me wrong, liberalism isn't inherently effeminate either but it is in less direct opposition to female instinct.

This is why we have neo-nutzis, generally they are too masculine to accept liberal insults to their instinct (such as foreign tribes in their territory), but not intelligent enough to articulate why conservative philosophy is a better path than liberalism.

[fallot]

I appreciate it mate, but what I mean is that I am naturally more prone to being open-minded, or reserving my opinion or judgment, especially when it comes to people. At least that is what I have figured (INTP). That would make me likely to side with the liberal perspective in a vacuum. It is that I have the ability, with experience (maybe a teeny tiny bit of borrowed wisdom) to reconize the truth of it that makes it (doubly) horrible. I can see how it could attract other well-intentioned people too (and make no mistake, the majority of liberals are truly well-intentioned). Prozak started out a liberal as well didnt he?

There are plenty of geniuses throuout history who have had liberal opinions or worked from liberal first principles. The very fact that liberalism is internally consistent leads to this. The only problem is the end result of this consistency is still failure. I think there is a great danger of underestimating the true threat of liberalism with what you espoused (though liberalism is without a doubt unmasculine). These are, after all, the principles of the much touted Enlightenment and have blinkered all IQ levels for hundreds of years.

[Dinaric Leather]

I appreciate it mate, but what I mean is that I am naturally more prone to being open-minded, or reserving my opinion or judgment, especially when it comes to people. At least that is what I have figured (INTP).

I don't think you're as "open-minded" or reserving of judgement as you think you are. Perhaps you just need more experience to feel confident making those judgements. INTP sounds like an immature under-disciplined INTJ to me.

There are plenty of geniuses throuout history who have had liberal opinions or worked from liberal first principles. The very fact that liberalism is internally consistent leads to this. The only problem is the end result of this consistency is still failure. I think there is a great danger of underestimating the true threat of liberalism with what you espoused (though liberalism is without a doubt unmasculine). These are, after all, the principles of the much touted Enlightenment and have blinkered all IQ levels for hundreds of years.

To be honest I'm not very well read in philosophy outside of the big names (Plato, Aristotle, Nietzche, Schopenhauer etc.) I can't think of anyone I would consider a genius liberal. Can you name some off to me?

People often cite Voltaire, I don't consider Voltaire a genius, I consider him a smart, charismatic guy at the right place at the right time. I think Prozak said something to the effect of he used to be liberal, but I think if you call yourself liberal and later become conservative, it's really more like realizing you've been conservative. I believe that ones values are more or less hard coded.

[fallot]

Once again, I appreciate your input, but it is misplaced. For my example, how about Beethoven?

[Aeternum]

INTP/INTJ?

This is an aspie ISTJ forum innit? ST anyway.

Nah, N is open-minded, we're close-minded. S.

I don't know much about the N world really.*

But that's off topic.

Who gives a fuck what someone is, it's about being responsible.

*but I doubt there's too much death metal

[fallot]

I will eat my own testicles if most of the posters here aren't INTJ.

[Aeternum]

I will eat my own testicles if most of the posters here aren't INTJ.

Bullshit the posters here are INTJ. They're probably mainly ISTJ, you know, the most common type.

Having a high IQ or level of wisdom and being a rare type are different things. Y'all are commoners.

[Cargést]

We did all check this once; most of us are INTJ or INTP.  There are a couple of ENTJs, and I think myself and someone else were smack bang in the middle between INTJ and ENTJ.

[Jim Necroslaughter]

I will eat my own testicles if most of the posters here aren't INTJ.

INFJ...get eatin'! 

INTP/INTJ?

This is an aspie ISTJ forum innit? ST anyway.

Nah, N is open-minded, we're close-minded. S.

I don't know much about the N world really.*

But that's off topic.

Who gives a fuck what someone is, it's about being responsible.

*but I doubt there's too much death metal

yeah, I can never remember what all that shit means either, but I'm pretty sure you got it totally wrong. 

[Aeternum]

well I guess I'm in the minority then

ISTJ ftw.

Why am I listening to the same shit as INTx's? Beats me.

[aquarius]

Somewhat overlapping with the thread made about lack of youth alternatives, it's hard not to notice it's difficult for bright kids to meet each other. Ever since the scene fell apart more or less completely in the mid 90's it's been hard for kids on the same page to meet each other.

No wonder we aren't getting any great bands anymore, the underground scenes that they would meet each other in have evaporated. Churches and Universities are obviously no longer places of thought either, generally speaking.

Interaction brings ideas to the fore, but isolation gives ideas strength.