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March 22, 2013, 03:01:57 PM
Nobody actively likes authority. Even when they understand the need for it.
Because authority is one of those things synonymous with its abuse.
It scares and threatens. What's to like?

Yet authority is like a fence: it keeps stuff in, as well as keeping stuff out.
In itself, it is neither good nor bad. It sets the stage, delineates the ends of things.
No field-game can take place without the field being first established.

I am not a champion of Civilization, because I see the end result of it.
With its inevitable descent into the swamps from which it arose, one has to wonder why even bother in the first place.
But any game lasts as long as it lasts. And while it does, its rules apply.

Crows really do, sometimes, carry big sticks. Native lore has interesting things to say about crows.
Moving outside of time and space. Spanning life and the afterlife. Keepers of The Sacred Law.
The Sacred Law is very simple. It goes something like this:

Respect and Reverence are your birthright. Your only birthright.
Bearing this in mind, you will move with the current of life.
Swim against this flow, and trouble will vie with struggle, all your days.

And you will surely drown.

Re: Authority.
March 22, 2013, 06:26:37 PM
Authority is what happens when men of varying faculty put their faith in one who has shown himself to be competent in actualizing goals. It is a delicate and fragile chain. The only downfall is when one fails to accept that this chain has evaporated. Hail to the king!

Re: Authority.
March 22, 2013, 07:38:10 PM
Crow, this whole "mentorship" thing doesn't work on the internet. You see, there's no way I have of knowing whether or not you're just some burnout creep who peaked early in life and so turned to the internet to form his own cult of personality. You can talk yourself up all you want, but the fact of the matter is that nobody sane is going to listen, because while philosophical discussion/pedagogy can occur over the internet, truly spiritual teaching loses its significance when people are physically seperated. It's fine if we treat spiritual topics as subjects for philosophical debate, but a true spiritual relationship--in which there is a clear master-pupil dichotomy, and in which it might be OK to rebuke someone outright as if they broke some law--cannot exist on a fucking metal forum, of all places. So please, keep the interesting ideas coming, but drop the faux sensei attitude, and save it for your fucking son or something. This isn't your fucking dojo, you are not the fucking master, so drop the conceited fucking attitude.

Oh, and this "spring cleaning" bit: fallot is spot on, this is pure passive-aggression on your part. "Disagree with certain user => get banned" is hardly a sound modus operandi for a any forum, much less one based on freedom of expression. Oh well, I guess this place is overdue for the tyrannic stage in its life cycle. I'll come back after the Crow-ocracy invariably collapses.

Re: Authority.
March 22, 2013, 07:43:29 PM
Something can be learned from burn-out creeps.

Broken clocks and all that jazz.

Re: Authority.
March 22, 2013, 07:51:52 PM
"...save it for your fucking son or something. This isn't your fucking dojo, you are not the fucking master, so drop the conceited fucking attitude."

I had wondered what form 'a simple apology' might take.
Men are generally able to do simple things like that.
Be seeing you.

Re: Authority.
March 22, 2013, 08:06:22 PM
What is depressing to me is that the anonymity of the internet has great potential to rid itself of the personality drama. Messenger < Message.

Re: Authority.
March 22, 2013, 08:11:33 PM
Be not depressed. This is the way it is. Maybe it will change.
Meanwhile, grapple with it, beat the crap out of it, and emerge the stronger.

Re: Authority.
March 22, 2013, 08:16:21 PM
While I have you on the horn, crow, I wanted to express my thanks for the sending me to the translation of that Sun Tzu fellow. It has been most helpful. Albeit nothing new, except this man's understanding of the feminine and the relationship between war and peace.

Re: Authority.
March 22, 2013, 08:49:44 PM
Thank you.

Re: Authority.
March 23, 2013, 07:59:19 AM
truly spiritual teaching loses its significance when people are physically seperated

Another instance of someone speaking without understanding!

Surely you're aware that the majority of spiritual teachers followed today are dead, yes?  Spirituality is that which extends beyond any physical life: devotees of Ramana Maharshi still learn from him through reflection on his character (jiva), as do the followers of Hazrat Inayat Kahn, or Mother Teresa (not to mention Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed, etc.).  One of the most famous and well-loved teachers is Shiva, who hasn't been amongst the people for however many millenia!  What about the Guru Granth Sahib of Sikhism, which isn't even a person, but a book?  This statement you've made would illegitemise Bhakti yoga, which is the basis of most religion (devotion to the unattainable).

When you have a good grasp of what is, it is clear that you are teaching yourself, one manifestation to another.  There is nothing that is not known, as there is nothing that does not appear within you.  It may appear to some things within you that there are other things than they which hold knowledge that they do not, but this is a mere appearence.

This one has learnt more from the dead than from the living, and has come to know its true nature with no teacher other than the World itself.  If that teaching should choose to come in the form of an internet post, why deny it on the basis of form alone?  That is unenlightened behaviour ; )

Re: Authority.
March 23, 2013, 10:46:51 AM
Profound! My mind doesn't work like that, unfortunately.
I write as well as anyone, but mostly I find myself unable to refute what I know to be clearly untrue.
You seem to be able to argue without it being an argument.
While I am unable to argue, period.

Re: Authority.
May 17, 2013, 04:32:49 PM
Now that things have settled down and only two of the worst offenders are no longer in any position to offend, the need for any more draconian measures is passed. For as long as it takes to get out of hand again.
Therefore, I have the pleasure to announce, that a certain amount of gratuitous rudeness will be tolerated, as long as it doesn't get too abrasive. It is left to the individual to decide what "a certain amount" might mean.

After all, we don't want to be complete pussies, do we? Especially not here.
To those who bore with the program: thank you.
To those few who didn't: feel free to apply, in writing to the site admin, to state your case.

Re: Authority.
May 17, 2013, 06:08:33 PM
I have been left wondering if this was some elaborate joke? The problem was of your own creation, where was the offending behaviour outside the context of this very saga? What has changed now? My interests are in the health of this forum because it has provided valuable insight at times, so I have no desire to turn this into an argument or subversion. This forum has been sparsely active for years, and not because of an especially unwelcoming attitude or problematic posters. The very nature of the place means it will have a relatively small audience. Nothing discussed here is mainstream opinion, whether related to metal or general topics.

Did you see a trend in the previous posting history of the offenders that was problematic? Even Tral`s comment that evinced such a reaction is honest straight talking; can you simply ignore the unspoken rules of normal human social reaction, appear out of the blue with a... unique style and not expect annoyance? Its still a metal forum, and metalheads have a certain spirit of camaraderie and a norm of interaction. That doesnt mean its an exclusive little special club with an inward looking mentality, it just means it has a flavour, that it is a community.

Re: Authority.
May 17, 2013, 09:32:15 PM
You must be unaware of the ratio of commenters to lurkers.
The lurkers lurk often, because they are the smartest ones, who would rather not set themselves up to become targets.
Those smartest ones are what every forum misses, because forums always degenerate into provinces run by schoolyard bullies. Bullies are rarely as smart as they like to think.
Sometimes the bullies need smashing, so that the outliers feel able to come inside.
Expect to hear from people you haven't seen before.
Expect, also, another mighty purge when the cycle repeats itself.
Meanwhile, enjoy the near-civility. It is hard-won and easily lost.

Re: Authority.
May 18, 2013, 12:15:56 AM
Is that it? Ratio of posters to lurkers? At least a part of those are bots, but even otherwise forums tend to have large ratios no? If the front page is getting traffic because of appealing to a mainstream (or at least wider) audience and they are checking out the forums, the fascist nature of the discourse isnt something most people will involve themselves in surely. Looking at the activity of lurkers, many seem to be reading ancient threads (again, possible bots).

This place and its predecessor has a certain reputation already (unrelated to forum activity). The state of these when it was a lot more active years ago was imo somewhat poor despite good stuff now and then; I myself lurked for a number of years before even registering. Just to satisfy my curiousity, how has the impression arisen that this ratio is because of bullying or other poor attitudes?

Shouldnt the line of thought should be `how do we incentivize lurkers joining` as opposed to `these people must not be posting because of problem elements` (heh, sounds vaguely inner-party communist style clique-ish ironically)? People joining up and quickly getting shot down... I have just not seen it happen, even barely concealed commercial posts by metalcore bands attracted semi-civil discussion. A draconian hugbox mentality forms in well known forums which decide to be more `inclusive` (not to imply that I am a forum warrior, or frequent poster even) but this doesnt fit that pattern at all, there has never been enough traffic for it.

Judge the response to yourself on your arrival here crow, was it unwelcoming? Bullying? Tell me there is more evidence than just a lurker to poster ratio. There may be, you are privy to more information, but tell us if so; if you are able to share it, please. I want this place to succeed and if there really is something like that holding it back I would encourage dealing with it and help where I can.