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Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal

Annihilaytorr

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 22, 2007, 08:08:43 PM
 Wow, I have never heard someone try and logically support a Pantera album by equating it with Incantation's "achievements".  Prepare to be slaughtered, kind sir.

The first two Death albums exude youthful creative anger and vigor, and helped further the riffcraft, aesthetic vision and composition style of an entire genre, and are classics from any perspective. However, this nihilistic and virile anger is conspicuous in its absence on later albums as it becomes increasingly apparent Schuldiner found himself trapped in a genre he no longer identified with, surrounded and idolized by people with values and characters he could not relate to in any way.


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If you want to know what Death wanted to be, check out the first two Morgoth EPs and Possessed.


No. If you knew anything about Schuldiner you would know his music never really embraced Satanism, while originally rejecting Christianity. Besides some vocal influence, musically Death by Leprosy had advanced well beyond Possessed.

And Morgoth is a blatant clone of Death, and everyone knows that.  

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 22, 2007, 11:04:13 PM
Leprosy was the only album really liked from Death, i found Scream Bloody Gore sounded to much like a younger and less matured sibling to leprosy.

But to me Leprosy still sounds heavily thrash and speed influenced and does not strike me as being "fully" formed death metal. Although i do think its a great album if you want to hear that almost proto-death sound in a summery.


Annihilaytorr

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 23, 2007, 12:08:00 AM
Hmm. I can see your point, but Leprosy is no more or no less rooted in thrash/speed metal than an Altars of Madness or an ...Of Darkness, or most early second wave bands. I suppose it's all a matter of where you want to draw the line.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 23, 2007, 03:02:45 AM
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So you're callin' Pantera's music "useless", huh? My first metal album was Far Beyond Driven. So what if they're a mainstream band? They sure did introduce me to more underground bands later on.
Compared to run of the mill death metal bands that try too hard to sound technical and just end up being boring and anal-retentive, this album just have that primal element missing in a lot of metal albums these days. A lot of people who dismiss Pantera have not listened to it.


you mean primal level of intelligence?
5 minutes alone?
i fucked your g/f last night?

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 23, 2007, 05:56:05 PM
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Leprosy was the only album really liked from Death, i found Scream Bloody Gore sounded to much like a younger and less matured sibling to leprosy.

But to me Leprosy still sounds heavily thrash and speed influenced and does not strike me as being "fully" formed death metal. Although i do think its a great album if you want to hear that almost proto-death sound in a summery.



Naturally, SBG was the younger and less matured sibling to Leprosy, so it's no surprise it sounded that way. Did you actually hear SBG before you heard Leprosy, or did you just never care for SBG from the outset?
I'll have to give a listen to test your theory though...I don't think I've actually heard Leprosy since my cassette melted in my car in '89 or so ::)


Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 23, 2007, 06:21:26 PM
The first album i herd from death was human, with the next being Scream bloody gore, which i never really fancied. I gave it a few listens but i didn't really get it while there was still a small amount of appeal to it. With leprosy which was the next album i heard i enjoyed it much more because it seemed to capitalize on the appealing aspects of the other album.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 23, 2007, 07:03:20 PM
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A lot of people who dismiss Pantera have not listened to it. Maybe because it made the bandmembers twice richer for it was their most top selling record.
Listen to that album, sonny, songs like "Strength Beyond Strength" and "Becoming" are achievements that not even Incantation's Onward to Golgotha or even Slayer is unable to duplicate. Crap like Reinventing the Steel is understandable for its lack of quality and Vulgar Display of Power for its simplistic approach and lyrical stupidity but FBD is what made Dimebag a fucking genius.
Besides those who claim to listen to the more technical and underground shit like Morbid Angel and Deicide are probably fucking pussies in real life and who seek to possess power by listening to songs about power, to obviously compensate for their impotence and lack of power in real life. That's what the real meaning of elitist, pathetic snob truly is.  

Rubbish like I'm Broken and 5 Minutes Alone is boring music that focuses on the obvious things in the world. Early works by Deicide, Slayer, and Incantation were able to delve into spiritual and metaphysical aspects. This gave their already interesting music an interesting aspect of focus.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 23, 2007, 08:08:33 PM
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The first album i herd from death was human, with the next being Scream bloody gore, which i never really fancied. I gave it a few listens but i didn't really get it while there was still a small amount of appeal to it. With leprosy which was the next album i heard i enjoyed it much more because it seemed to capitalize on the appealing aspects of the other album.


Interesting. Most that I know(myslef included) are "old-timers" who started with SBG...and still tend to consider that best - this is why I asked. Seems you got a good introduction though, with Human, SBG, and Leprosy basically being the best of the lot all around!  




Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 25, 2007, 06:40:37 PM
To answer Bachoven, Agni and Lord Beefalo. First, Pantera's 3rd mainstream album was my first metal record back in the day I have not heared yet about death metal or black metal bands. So for my first listen, it blew my mind, so to speak.
Later on, I would get my hands on Benediction's The Grand Leveller, Morgoth's Cursed, Amorphis's Tales from the Thousand Lakes, even Pungent Stench's Been Caught Buttering on cassette tapes.
Now when I first listened to Onward to Golgotha, it put me to sleep, despite the fact that it is a completely brutal and pernicious sounding album.
What I'm saying is that maybe if it was that Incantation album that I first listened to, maybe I'd say the same thing, like with FBD, but I guess it would take a few more listens before I could get to appreciate Onward to Golgotha's finer points and merits.
And yeah, the album lacked a lyric sheet so I don't know what the fuck the vocalist was growling about. Maybe he's pissed because he can't get laid or what.  

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 26, 2007, 05:31:43 PM
One word: Kreator.

For some time, it wasn't certain that death metal would break away from thrash metal like Slayer and Metallica.

Then along came these bands like Immolation, Incantation, Revenant, Morbid Angel, Deicide, Asphyx, Sinister, Sodom, Sarcofago, Possessed, Necrovore that didn't even sound like rock music.

SBG sounded more like regular music, and it got more popular, but it's only one aspect of death metal.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 26, 2007, 07:05:33 PM
I would correct the mistakes in the last post but correcting everything this guy says thats baseless and stupid is becoming a full time job.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 26, 2007, 07:12:14 PM
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Then along came these bands like Immolation, Incantation, Revenant, Morbid Angel, Deicide, Asphyx, Sinister, Sodom, Sarcofago, Possessed, Necrovore that didn't even sound like rock music.

SBG sounded more like regular music, and it got more popular, but it's only one aspect of death metal.


How did Sodom sound unlike thrash? In fact don't slayer sound far more like death metal then anything Sodom did in their early years?

Annihilaytorr

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 26, 2007, 07:14:38 PM
No shit. Just ignore him. I am starting to think he is an elaborate troll created for the amusement of our moderators, like that X-tian Holocaust dude had to have been.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 27, 2007, 02:35:07 AM
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How did Sodom sound unlike thrash? In fact don't slayer sound far more like death metal then anything Sodom did in their early years?


I'm thinking of "In the Sign of Evil" here, which was advanced for its time. Death did nothing for "riffcraft" that Sepultura did not already do.


Annihilaytorr

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 27, 2007, 07:59:31 AM
Again you are wrong, Sepultura was very important as well, but got caught up in Slayer/Metallica-esque thrash/speed metal, where Death pushed upward and rose above.

In the Sign of Evil is nothing more than suped up Venom.