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Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 28, 2007, 07:51:33 AM
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Again you are wrong, Sepultura was very important as well, but got caught up in Slayer/Metallica-esque thrash/speed metal, where Death pushed upward and rose above.

In the Sign of Evil is nothing more than suped up Venom.


Sepultura did everything they needed to with the first two CDs. Everything after that was a different band, up until Chaos AD when it became an entirely different band... a sold-out band.

In the Sign of Evil has a lot more punk than Venom, which was basically incompetent Judas Priest worship played like it was punk.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 28, 2007, 09:53:47 AM
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The first two Death albums exude youthful creative anger and vigor, and helped further the riffcraft, aesthetic vision and composition style of an entire genre, and are classics from any perspective. However, this nihilistic and virile anger is conspicuous in its absence on later albums as it becomes increasingly apparent Schuldiner found himself trapped in a genre he no longer identified with, surrounded and idolized by people with values and characters he could not relate to in any way.


Well put, I felt similarly about Chuck's later involvement in Death Metal.  The rather vague quotation from Nietzsche inside the booklet for TSoP seems like an attempt to reconcile the disparity between his new beliefs and those that guided his earliest music.  

Chuck always had a decent ear for melodies but, without the assistance of certain Cynic members, never possessed the ability to unify them in any kind of complex structure.  All of the outside influences he took to later on, both musical and not, didn't help his chances of ever composing something worthwhile again.  

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 28, 2007, 10:40:12 AM
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And Morgoth is a blatant clone of Death, and everyone knows that.  


How are "The Afterthought" or "Selected Killing" Death clones in any regard? They contain long phrases of melodic black metal, which could easily serve as preludes to Gorgoroth or Emperor, but were integrated in a context of death metal back in 1989.

As for Sepultura, no other band had dropped the speed metal stylings as this group had for its first two albums, recorded in 1985 and 1986. Their picking up speed metal came later with the addition of Andreas Kisser, as it did with Sodom the same year.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 28, 2007, 11:10:31 AM
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Chuck always had a decent ear for melodies but, without the assistance of certain Cynic members, never possessed the ability to unify them in any kind of complex structure.  All of the outside influences he took to later on, both musical and not, didn't help his chances of ever composing something worthwhile again.  


These are my feelings as well.

Though their part-writing became more and more complex over time, Death’s song-writing never outgrew the same dull and limiting cyclic pop/rock structures that most bands tend to take advantage of when they’re first starting out; in fact, Shuldiner used the same basic structure for just about every song he ever wrote (the only exceptions that I can think of are the instrumentals “Voice of the Soul” and “Cosmic Sea”).

Truthfully, the simpleton structures were acceptable during the bands' early days because the music itself—by nature of its own simplicity—did not require it, but from “Individual Thought Patterns” on, it’s pretty clear to these ears that the majority of the band’s part-writing just feel horribly awkward when constrained by the structural training-wheels that Shuldiner never seemed to take off.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 28, 2007, 01:16:19 PM
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In the Sign of Evil has a lot more punk than Venom, which was basically incompetent Judas Priest worship played like it was punk.


Venom is nothing like Juda...oh fuck it. No one cares or listens to this dumbass anyway.

Is demo era Morgoth dramatically different from their LPs? If so then maybe they are worth more than some German Death knock off.

While it's obvious Sepultura's early stuff is more like Death/Black metal, I think it's quite a stretch to go so far as to say it isn't Speed Metal at its core.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
April 29, 2007, 08:22:23 AM
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Is demo era Morgoth dramatically different from their LPs? If so then maybe they are worth more than some German Death knock off.


Both EPs sound very similar to "Cursed" and are at roughly the same level of quality.  I can't remember much of anything about the "Pits of Utumno" demo.

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
May 01, 2007, 02:40:10 AM
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While it's obvious Sepultura's early stuff is more like Death/Black metal, I think it's quite a stretch to go so far as to say it isn't Speed Metal at its core.


Speed metal? No, that came about after Andreas Kisser joined the band... this was when Wagner Antichrist (Sarcofago) was still in there and they were listening to nothing but Hellhammer, Sodom, Bathory and Slayer.


Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
May 01, 2007, 04:54:34 PM
Prog-metal is a joke. All the bands sound the same. No songwriting, all guitar masturbation. We should have learned from Joe Satriani that this genre was doomed to shit.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
May 01, 2007, 08:22:26 PM
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Speed metal? No, that came about after Andreas Kisser joined the band... this was when Wagner Antichrist (Sarcofago) was still in there and they were listening to nothing but Hellhammer, Sodom, Bathory and Slayer.



How can nothing but Slayer, Bathory and Sodom influence be used as an argument for something not to be speed metal at it's core?

Raise_the_Dead

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
May 01, 2007, 08:27:45 PM
All early death / black metal sounds a lot like speed metal IMO (maybe not Hellhammer), especially Sepultura.

Annihilaytorr

Re: Death:  Death-Metal Vs. Prog-Metal
May 01, 2007, 09:08:39 PM
All early Death/Black was speed metal. I agree that Hellhammer was the most removed from speed metal. But by the time Sepultura came around, Celtic Frost, who was very speed metal, had already released their last good album.