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Move out and live.

Move out and live.
April 08, 2013, 05:51:39 PM
I am led to believe that deathmetal is a method that people use to reacquaint themselves with the rawness of the natural world, as opposed to the contrived and seriously unnatural one they inhabit. It is a stand-in for reality.
But a stand-in for reality is still not reality.
Much like a thought about something is not the thing itself.

Many people here seem to have no connection with reality, and see everything in social terms, as if people and people stuff were the entirety of life and living.

I conclude that most of you are city-dwellers, and being that, have become removed from the larger system that sustains you. The earth. The atmosphere. Storms, wind, water, wildlife.

Consider the possibility that, being removed from real life, your views are no longer held in any kind of reality-based context. The social has replaced the real. Instead of the social being only one facet of what is real.

As another consequence of this removal from reality, intellect is seen as the be-all and end-all, with experience, practical skills and know-how, fading into insignificance.

I hope some of you will, at some point, unplug from the internet for a while, pack up and move out of your cities, and set up somewhere that has a far horizon to contemplate, and where nature still may influence you. Because a life lived permanently disconnected from that which sustains you, is an empty life indeed.


Move in and live.
April 08, 2013, 06:21:30 PM
Sari-e Saqati was the first man to preach in Baghdad on the mystic truths and the Suh “unity”. Most of the Sufi shaikhs of Iraq were his disciples. He was the uncle of Jonaid and the pupil of Ma’ruf-e Karkhi; he had also seen Habib-e Ra’i. To begin with he lived in Baghdad, where he had a shop. Hanging a curtain over the door of his shop, he would go in and pray, performing several rak’as daily in this fashion.

One day a man came from Mount Lokam to visit him. Lifting aside the curtain, he greeted him. “Shaikh So-and-so from Mount Lokam greets you,” he said. “He dwells in the mountains,” commented Sari. “So his efforts amount to nothing. A man ought to be able to live in the midst of the market and be so preoccupied with God, that not for a single instant is he absent from God.”

Re: Move out and live.
April 08, 2013, 06:25:24 PM
What does it benefit a man, to worship God every moment, if that man has no idea what he is worshipping, or why?

Re: Move out and live.
April 08, 2013, 06:29:24 PM
What does it benefit a man, to worship God every moment, if that man has no idea what he is worshipping, or why?

Because a life lived permanently disconnected from that which sustains you is an empty life indeed and merely accepting God as the sustainer is to grasp the idea.

Re: Move out and live.
April 08, 2013, 06:39:40 PM
Because a life lived permanently disconnected from that which sustains you is an empty life indeed and merely accepting God as the sustainer is to grasp the idea.

It is not an 'idea'. Which is my whole point.
To see it, breathe it, experience it, live it, is what makes both it, to you, and you, yourself, real.
Otherwise, as you say, everything exists only as ideas.
God is not some social idea that may sound as if it might be something worth subscribing to, or not.
Step outside, and be it.


Re: Move in and live.
April 11, 2013, 09:56:49 AM
Sari-e Saqati was the first man to preach in Baghdad on the mystic truths and the Suh “unity”. Most of the Sufi shaikhs of Iraq were his disciples. He was the uncle of Jonaid and the pupil of Ma’ruf-e Karkhi; he had also seen Habib-e Ra’i. To begin with he lived in Baghdad, where he had a shop. Hanging a curtain over the door of his shop, he would go in and pray, performing several rak’as daily in this fashion.

One day a man came from Mount Lokam to visit him. Lifting aside the curtain, he greeted him. “Shaikh So-and-so from Mount Lokam greets you,” he said. “He dwells in the mountains,” commented Sari. “So his efforts amount to nothing. A man ought to be able to live in the midst of the market and be so preoccupied with God, that not for a single instant is he absent from God.”


This is a good point, although it overstates the case, I am curious where you found it?  On the one hand every man has the spiritual right to withdraw from human society in order to focus on the acquisition of knowledge of a higher order, on the other this type of withdrawal is not a prerequisite for such knowledge, as is stated here...

"Without going outside, you may know the whole world.
Without looking through the window, you may see the ways of heaven.
The farther you go the less you know."

-From the Tao Te Ching

This is because knowledge of Reality is inherent in our own being, it does not necessarily depend on external circumstances, although they may support or obstruct it as the case may be.  This is what I think Crow was getting at, since the ambience of a modern city, with all its ugliness and superficiality is undoubtedly opposed to an insight into the nature of things, whereas the innocent beauty of nature is a suitable support for contemplation.  Human art can also provide the necessary support for contemplation if it meets certain criteria. 

Getting back to the original point, I would say that despite the fact that a natural setting is more conducive to an understanding of Reality than a modern city, it is still possible to spend most of your life in the latter without being corrupted by it, if you take certain precautions.  It is important to note that 'nature' and Reality are not identical terms, nature too is simply a manifestation of a transcendent order which can be known independently of its manifestations, this is what is suggested by both your quote and the one I took from Lao Tsu.  It is also why Thomas Aquinas wrote that art should "imitate nature in her manner of operation", rather than simply imitating nature as such, and this also hints at the reason why art can, to some extent, act as a substitute for nature which Crow seemed to suggest in the OP.

Having said all that, I still think that spending a significant amount of time in a wilderness setting will be immensely beneficial for the vast majority of modern people.  I try to spend at least one unbroken two week block in such a setting each year, plus frequent overnight or two night trips in my local area.  Just because something is not necessary does not mean it is not valuable, and one should keep in mind that not all people, in fact very few, will have the necessary levels of insight and discipline to remain untouched by the superficiality and decadence of modern existence whilst remaining in close proximity to it.

Re: Move out and live.
April 11, 2013, 05:41:33 PM
City life involves wearing armour to defend against the mostly predatory behavior of city-dwellers.
With so much stimulation, one becomes partially shut-down in order to cope.
This shut-down state is not one of being wholly alive, and precludes the natural inquisitiveness, curiosity, receptiveness and growth that healthy beings require.
Cities don't work very well, once they attain a certain critical mass, whereas the natural world never attains such a state of imbalance.

Too many people, too closely packed, is never going to be place where men may naturally thrive.