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Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?

Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?
May 18, 2013, 05:48:08 AM
One of the biggest problems I have with this site is that the whole premise is too good to be true. It starts out by claiming to be nihilistic, which means that it sees life as being without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Next of all, it asserts that the music we like, metal, is objectively better than other music. If we like a specific album, we must claim that it shares the same values that we do. However, this post is not being made to make criticisms, but rather to give a chance to explain the writings on this site, and hopefully give me deeper insight.

While I have many questions to ask, I'll start with the one most recently on my mind. This website seems to revere Antaeus' debut album, and heralds frontman MkM as some sort of amazing visionary. However, I don't see how theistic satanism, flesh mutilation, hatred, and destruction for its own sake fit in with the views of this site as a whole, or any of its individual members. How do you all interpret phrases like "I hope you die" and the aforementioned "CYFAWS"? Because I'm sure MkM meant them as literally as possible.

Feel free to refer to the interview here for some quotes: http://www.deathmetal.org/interview/mkm-antaeus/

Re: Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?
May 18, 2013, 11:32:14 AM
My take: Lyrics are not standalone statements, but provide context for the music. Consider the experience in its totality. The music itself is full of life (creativity) despite the topic. It finds its own meaning and purpose in the midst of apparent purposelessness. Immanent and transcendent existence is worth worship, even in its darkness.

I hope you die should not be rephrased as `hi guys, this is MkM and I hope you die`. Release from the fear of death, release from arbitrary value and its replacement with a feral spirit may be considered the goal in the case of Antaeus (though it later turned in on itself and became parody like lesser black metal that attempts this). To express it, the artist must take it as literally as possible. If it is not serious, the expression cannot be genuine. That does not mean the artist personally advocates these actions as an overall life philosophy; take it literally but not in a reductive sense.

Where is the reverence for MkM though? CYFAWS is a good album, but it doesnt touch the best of the best. Personally I think this stuff does toe the line, but does it advocate destruction and hatred for their own sake? Do the lads from Birth A.D. really want to kill everybody?

I dont understand what you mean by `we must claim it shares the same values we do`. Could you elaborate on that? Also, thank you for making a substantial post about metal music, I was beginning to miss this :(

Re: Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?
May 18, 2013, 03:26:43 PM
I think the idea behind CYFAWS/mutilation/destruction/I hope you die' is like Nietzsche's amor fati which basically means love your fate or embrace your fate.  It means in the final analysis you cannot resist forever and you must ultimately submit to fate, so mutilate your resistance to this, destroy it, cut it, slash it and die.  It's like if you've ever practiced on something for a long time, then the time comes for the official performance, so to speak, at that point it's show time and you submit to fate, trust your practice, and let the chips fall where they may.

Re: Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?
May 19, 2013, 10:44:29 PM
As stated already, Black Metal takes the concept of mythic narrative even further than previous incarnations. More often than not, it seems as if the band members themselves are projected through the music into what I personally like to call "amplified beings," or the embodiment of a (generally brutish or malevolent) nature within their being/personality.

One good example might be Evil of Marduk. By all accounts I have heard, Morgan Håkansson certainly does take his music seriously onstage and off, but of course has an "outside" human life just as anyone. However, Evil would then solely be the demonic, war-scarred guitarist for Marduk, brought in and out of this plane during set rituals.... Performance, Recording, ect. This is at least one major function of corpse paint, "stage names," and the like.

In that respect, Dead and arguably Euronymous are examples of the danger that lies in this exploration.

I know little about Antaeus more than the CYFWS album, but one could probably assume such a general outlook. Ultimately, it comes down to the music itself. This is, like many things, all observation.

Re: Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?
May 20, 2013, 01:50:31 AM
It starts out by claiming to be nihilistic, which means that it sees life as being without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value. Next of all, it asserts that the music we like, metal, is objectively better than other music.

Lack of objective meaning does not mean lack of objective measurement. In fact, if you think about it, it requires objective measurement to be discerned.

Re: Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?
May 20, 2013, 06:52:54 AM
First of all, thanks for the responses, everyone. It looks like many of you have drawn the same conclusions I have, such as mutilation serving as an acceptance of death, and that great metal artists should embody an extreme. I especially liked Othala's admittance to the fact that Dead and Euronymous took that extreme, funny as it may seem to say, a bit too far, to the point it took overtook them. I suppose I see MkM in that same light.

Quote
does it advocate destruction and hatred for their own sake?

The reason I leveled this accusation at the band is that, despite this site claiming that satanism in metal is simply a metaphor, MkM has admitted that he worships a Satan as a real entity; one of destruction. Theistic satanism, at least from what I can gather, doesn't propose the creation of something new after destroying. God creates, Satan consumes. And a little more off-topic, what is the deal with that tattoo of Jesus on his right forearm? That's always tickled my curiosity.

Trystero, one such example of MkM reverence would be right here http://www.deathmetal.org/forum/index.php/topic,558.msg4240.html#msg4240
Though that, I suppose, could be because he embodies and extreme, an extreme that does not mesh well with Myspace, and therefore his joining of that site would appear to be a breaking of character. As for your last question, I'll expand upon that in later posts, as I still have many questions for you all.

Also, apologies for my poor writing, I have difficulties with assembling my thoughts, which is why it took me a few days to respond. I'll try to order my ideas a bit better in the future, as I feel I could have made much better points. Perhaps I could hire an editor?

Re: Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?
May 20, 2013, 08:08:03 AM
Well, the whole point of this site is reality-worship, so I don't think it's about certain bands sharing the same values as the ANUS as much as it's about the bands expressing something real.

The reality shines through in the music when the music is inspired. 'Cut your flesh and worship Satan' is just a great record. Vicious, violent and dark. It's an expression of pure negativity.

'Cut your flesh and worship Satan' is such a powerful statement, because it's an expression of this negativity. It's like saying: 'Everything you've ever thought was wrong is right'. 'Everything you've ever wanted to deny is right here'.

It's about acknowledging the existence of negativity, darkness, violence and decay as an essential function of reality, even though social reality bids us to ignore it.

I don't know about MkM and his personal values. They seem a little wrongheaded. But the artist is just the vessel of expressing an impersonal truth, so I don't really think it's important if you agree with him or not. CYFAWS still expresses something real.

(Yes, I'm basically agreeing with everyone on this).

Re: Cut Your Flesh And Worship Satan?
May 20, 2013, 08:17:58 AM
(Yes, I'm basically agreeing with everyone on this).

Nothing wrong with this! The points made thus far have been convincing, and I think we can consider this topic resolved. Admittedly, I already believed and thought most of what was posted here, but seeing it rephrased by others has really helped me solidify those opinions and re-evaluate what I should expect out of a great metal album. Thanks, everyone.