Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Login with username, password and session length

The student and the teacher.

The student and the teacher.
May 26, 2013, 10:09:11 AM
Where most have no soul, and many have one, I in fact have two.

One is older than time and space. It is infinitely wise. It's perfect. The other is very young. It is inexperienced, and it's clumsy as hell.

My souls are polar opposites. But they are also inseparable as night and day.

Some people can talk all day about how there is no 'I'. That ego is an illusion. But if you look at their actions, they still behave as if ego is the ultimate reality.

Others claim 'I' to be the only reality. But their actions and thoughts are still part of something grander. Something beyond their own control.

I can beleive in neither. Cause when you get down to it, I am not an I. I am a We. I am the communication between my two souls. Whether I am closer to the one soul or the other is entirely dependent on the context.

Some will see me as young, naive, maybe even a bit stupid. And that's okay - because I am that.

But I am also the voice of reality's infinite perfection.

You can communicate with both souls. Some will only see one. Some will see them both. I am both. There is no contradiction unless you want to see one.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 26, 2013, 04:32:55 PM
This is mystical, and therefore makes no sense.
If we want it to make sense, we must judge it to be crazy.
If we don't mind it making no sense, it remains whatever it is.
Mystical.

Something to be regarded, like a crystal in the dirt.
It is what it is, whatever it is.
It doesn't really matter what it is.
It exists independently of what we think of it.


Re: The student and the teacher.
May 27, 2013, 03:02:31 AM
I hope that one day you will become a wise man because you have already admitted to your own nature and shortcomings in a very eloquent way.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 27, 2013, 10:25:56 AM
You are an astute observer. I have made understanding my ideal in life, or rather life seems to point me towards understanding, like the needle of a compass: As there is always the balance of north and south, likewise knowledge and ignorance are in perfect equilibrium. Something I'm gradually coming to realize as a seeker.

The crow makes a profound point. Making sense of mystery is a maddening task. For mystery in turn makes nonsense out of sense. This realization lies at the heart of all profound wisdom.

Are you by any chance a muslim, Saif al-Malik? Or am I just assuming, because you have an Arabic-sounding name?

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 28, 2013, 05:44:18 AM
Are you by any chance a muslim, Saif al-Malik? Or am I just assuming, because you have an Arabic-sounding name?

Yes, I am.  Do you have any questions?  Anything that goes beyond the focus of the thread can be the subject of a private message.  Since I am on a break from my studies, I will not neglect it, unlike fallot's inquiry.  I apologize for that one, sir!

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 28, 2013, 05:18:28 PM
Are you by any chance a muslim, Saif al-Malik? Or am I just assuming, because you have an Arabic-sounding name?

Yes, I am.  Do you have any questions?  Anything that goes beyond the focus of the thread can be the subject of a private message.  Since I am on a break from my studies, I will not neglect it, unlike fallot's inquiry.  I apologize for that one, sir!

I most confess that the clash between Islam and the occident frighten me a little. But I realize now that I know really little about Islam. It could be a good idea to have a thread where Islam is explained. I could clarify some misconceptions about it. For instance, I allways wondered what's the meaning of halal food.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 28, 2013, 05:45:52 PM
There's nothing to understand about islam, unless you plan on becoming a muslim.
I note that any time a muslim turns up, they assume people are hungry to understand it.
And if they aren't, then absurd offense is taken, often up to, and including, mass murder.

Halal is the slitting of an animal's throat while it is still fully conscious, to let it bleed to death.
Meanwhile, muslims demand that everybody else eat halal meat, too.
Which is entirely in keeping with the whole medieval mindset of muslims.
All of which is fine, somewhere in some far-off desert, among like-minded characters.
Not so fine when mixed with civilization.

Still, any civilization that is unable to defend itself against medieval encroachment, really doesn't have much going for it.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 28, 2013, 07:10:55 PM
There's nothing to understand about islam, unless you plan on becoming a muslim.
I note that any time a muslim turns up, they assume people are hungry to understand it.
And if they aren't, then absurd offense is taken, often up to, and including, mass murder.

Halal is the slitting of an animal's throat while it is still fully conscious, to let it bleed to death.
Meanwhile, muslims demand that everybody else eat halal meat, too.
Which is entirely in keeping with the whole medieval mindset of muslims.
All of which is fine, somewhere in some far-off desert, among like-minded characters.
Not so fine when mixed with civilization.

Still, any civilization that is unable to defend itself against medieval encroachment, really doesn't have much going for it.

Are you willing to say the same about the Jews?  We at least were able to build a civilization which made great accomplishments and revived old wisdom.  Since you are influenced to an extent by eastern philosophies, I cannot expect you to understand Islam in its exterior which is an Abrahamic religion.  If a person cannot believe in--submit to--a Universal God whose very Mercy pervades existence, they will not understand the core of Islam.

Its interior, however, differs little from many eastern teachings, albeit remaining monotheist instead of polytheist or pantheist in nature.  If you take The Hagakure and change gods for God, and Buddhas for God, it is very Islamic.  And Islam, as according to how I understand Evola, Guenon, et al. is one of the last authentic bastions of a Traditional faith.  For those of us living in the forgetful modern era, we want to believe that we have surpassed battles of ideology.  This is not so, especially not in crow's native land which decided to accept and support people who were known to be dangerous in their homelands.  It is wrong to consider Islam to simply be a "religion of peace."  It is also wrong to harm one's nation and people, but the folks causing havoc in Britain are a formidable bunch devoid of honor.  To be fair, Europe today is not the Europe of the past, of refinement, elegance, and culture.  Almost no place is.

It is not my intention to cause an argument, nor to corrupt this thread.

Halal and kosher slaughter are one and the same.  It is a method of slaughter which when done properly should result in unconsciousness in an animal.  To be frank, this is often not the case.  The reason for this is to minimize blood-borne pathogens as blood is a harbinger for many protists, viruses, and bacteria.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 28, 2013, 07:56:54 PM
You seem an intelligent and reasonable fellow. This is good: none of this is, or should become, personal.
But I make no bones about my hostility to islam, in response to its manifest hostility to anything non-islamic.
The fatal mistake the West has made is in assuming all peoples have all things in common.
The deed is done. Sadly. Now mayhem will ensue. Sadly.
What a fuckin' waste.

And BTW: I do not subscribe, as so many others do, to the notion of thread-derailment being in any way bad.
The writer has more credibility than the thread. Until the writer proves otherwise.


Re: The student and the teacher.
May 28, 2013, 10:53:36 PM
The claim that Islam somehow "revived" or "preserved" the wisdom of Classical Antiquity is disingenuous, at best.  This learning was largely preserved within the libraries of Christian monasteries in Asia Minor and the Levant, and the 'revival' of interest in Classical thought was largely a European affair, triggered by the large number of manuscripts brought back by soldiers and pilgrims returning from the Crusades.  The 'Islamic' contribution to preserving and disseminating the learning of Classical Antiquity largely consisted of not sacking Christian monastic centers during their conquests of the Syria-Palestine and Anatolia.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 29, 2013, 12:03:55 AM
The claim that Islam somehow "revived" or "preserved" the wisdom of Classical Antiquity is disingenuous, at best.  This learning was largely preserved within the libraries of Christian monasteries in Asia Minor and the Levant, and the 'revival' of interest in Classical thought was largely a European affair, triggered by the large number of manuscripts brought back by soldiers and pilgrims returning from the Crusades.  The 'Islamic' contribution to preserving and disseminating the learning of Classical Antiquity largely consisted of not sacking Christian monastic centers during their conquests of the Syria-Palestine and Anatolia.

And through the translation and interpretation of many of those works into Arabic.  Averroes, Avicenna, Alhacen, and many others did not exist in a vacuum.  They were not at all afraid of learning from the Greeks and Romans.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 29, 2013, 11:08:38 AM
Interesting. Monotheists are rare around these parts.

I stand divided on the question of Islam: On the one hand, I don't want Islam here in europe. It doesn't belong here, and it's bad for the culture. But on the other, the Qu'ran is one of my favourite spiritual texts.

Even though I am more of a Christian myself, I wholly recognize the Qu'ran as words from the abrahamic God. Islam definitely has a living core of truth. I guess this makes me a heretic in the eyes of many (so-called) Christians. But you have to acknowledge when you hear something real.

I could never become a muslim though. I will recognize the truth of the religion, but I will forever remain master of my own worship, so to speak. I serve my God as I must.

Still, Islam teaches many things that we europeans could learn a great deal from. First and foremost: Ruthlessness towards unbelievers. That is: If you believe, and you know in your heart and mind that what you believe is right and real, you have the God-given right to fight against those, who seek to destroy it. The end result will reveal if you were in the right.

We europeans have a problem with immigrants because we have become an impotent bunch. We no longer feel any living truth in the enlightenment-ideals we claim to believe in. And so we've become effeminate pushovers.

My understanding of an unbeliever: Someone who doesn't really believe the things, he claims to believe. Someone calling on the gods strictly when it is to his own advantage. Someone who doesn't stand up for what he believes in, but escapes into mindless doctrine. A liberal.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 29, 2013, 01:24:30 PM
Still, Islam teaches many things that we europeans could learn a great deal from. First and foremost: Ruthlessness towards unbelievers. That is: If you believe, and you know in your heart and mind that what you believe is right and real, you have the God-given right to fight against those, who seek to destroy it. The end result will reveal if you were in the right.

This is a little overstated. It is certainly true that Islam exhorts the believer to fight against kufr, but the popular "interpretation" bounces between two lies. The first, that Islam is a "religion of peace" in the sense that it is pacifist. This is untrue on its face, Islam codifies all aspects of life, war being amongst them. It has warlike qualities both spiritual and exoteric (outer vs. inner war, see Evola for an accessible explanation).

On the other hand, snippets of text and historical grievances lead to a view that Islam is exclusively warlike and under all circumstances believers must be conquerors. This is also incorrect. A common reasoning is the label Islam gives to territory outside the pale of Abrahamic revealed religion, Dar-ul-Harb; the land of war. This definition is of lands where it is legal to wage war, not where it must be sought. In the end, we are bound by "There is no compulsion in religion...". As immigration brings the dregs of Muslim (and other nations) in hordes to Europe, so views harden and turn to this latter one. I think it is a mistake to consider it thusly. While Islam is no friend of Europe, the current issue of globalist liberalism and mass immigration is not a resurrection of that ancient enemy.

I wont go so far as to say that Islam is the cure for what ails you, though it is a cure. Do westerners think a European Islam would turn them into Africans or Arabs? That is the impression I get from the online right.

Quote
My understanding of an unbeliever: Someone who doesn't really believe the things, he claims to believe. Someone calling on the gods strictly when it is to his own advantage. Someone who doesn't stand up for what he believes in, but escapes into mindless doctrine. A liberal.

In Islam this is beyond unbelief, such a person is a Munafiq, a hypocrite. "The Hypocrites, men and women, (have an understanding) with each other: They enjoin evil, and forbid what is just, and are close with their hands. They have forgotten Allah; so He hath forgotten them. Verily the Hypocrites are rebellious and perverse. " -Quran 9:67

The claim that Islam somehow "revived" or "preserved" the wisdom of Classical Antiquity is disingenuous, at best.

On the contrary, it is your claim that is disingenuous. The Muslims did nothing except not destroy the knowledge which was handily recovered later by Europeans? Does that seem like a reasonable proposition? Look at Aquinas for instance, the Summa refers to the work of Averroes, Avicenna and al-Ghazali, not only the Greeks/Romans. This knowledge was studied and worked upon extensively, and reference to Muslim works was an intellectual fad at multiple points in European history; Averroism is a convenient example.

As far as Halal slaughter is concerned, I am not certain what Saif-al-Malik refers to when he mentions that it is often that this doesn't result in unconsciousness. Perhaps the current mass-produced industrial travesty called "halal"? The actual method would always cause unconsciousness in seconds if it were successful at all. Anecdotally, I have never witnessed nor performed one that has been unsuccessful. With both the carotids severed, unconsciousness is near instant. Also, while one purpose of this may well be to prevent the spread of blood-borne pathogens, its ritual value supersedes it and is (IMO at least) more important.

Saif-al-Malik, no need to apologize! I do not know if you responded to my earlier PM query. Unfortunately I can no longer access that account. I would be very appreciative if you could direct your answer, if there was one, to this one.

Re: The student and the teacher.
May 29, 2013, 03:35:48 PM
Well, what do you know:

There's nothing to understand about islam, unless you plan on becoming a muslim.
I note that any time a muslim turns up, they assume people are hungry to understand it.

I do not claim to speak as a muslim. I wouldn't know what Islam is or isn't.

I know that the Qur'an is a book, that I like to read in from time to time. I know of no interpretations but my own. The words in themselves are inspiring enough.

If God speaks to you, and you know this to be true, it doesn't matter if the whole world thinks your crazy. They will meet their fate, and you will meet your own.

God to me is reality. Nothing more, nothing less.

The reality of europe is, that we've lost touch with the warlike in our spiritual nature. Islam is here because of this. This is why the notion of holy war is so important to us.

Re: The student and the teacher.
June 02, 2013, 01:03:28 AM
From my own observations, just about every authentic religion or belief system has a middle-path as well as extremes on either side of that path. It originates in a specific ethno-cultural environment and though this isnít unchanging throughout the grand forces of time, forcing change will inevitably result in a conflict of extremes and worse situation for all involved (at least for the first couple of centuries).

As a practical example, just look at what a pushover Christianity has become. It is largely dead in the minds of most westerners. Meanwhile Islam ups the ante and makes the most of good situation.

At the heart of all unbalance stands Liberalism; the ultimate parasite and sado-masochist.