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Disorder inspires imaginative ideas

Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 12, 2013, 12:47:27 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2385384/University-Minnesota-study-finds-working-cluttered-environment-makes-creative.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10910094

Probably flawed (especially as regards defining creativity in the first place) but interesting nonetheless. Do any creative people here have a preference for tidy of messy? and what do you make of it?

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 12, 2013, 12:57:08 AM
if creative people have a messy place, it's because when they are on a thinking mode, they tend to forget to clean around them. On a extreme level, someone who has a mental disorder where the mind drift from the ''material plane'', the place will turn into a dump really fast. It's not a bout a preference for messy space, it's a lack of focus on more basic things.
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” -Krishnamurti

''I have studied many philosophers and many cats. The wisdom of cats is infinitely superior.''  -Hippolyte Taine

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 12, 2013, 08:41:12 PM
This research is almost hilariously off-base. I suppose it comes from poor basic principles and flawed definitions, like you said aquarius, and shows the weakness of their method. The current output of Bruce Charlton in this respect is very enlightening, I would advise reading his blog http://iqpersonalitygenius.blogspot.com/ I accept his hypothesis that creativity and true genius is a consequence of the trait of psychoticism.

Creativity seems to be an aspect of personality, and creatives tend to work in, or be comfortable with, clutter to a degree many other people would find strange or disconcerting. That does not mean if you take any random person and put them in a mess that they will become more creative. This is also not the only eccentricity creatives are... blessed with.

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 12, 2013, 09:31:20 PM
I do not like to draw or write music when there is something that needs done (say I have unwashed dishes or clothes). Even if the mess is not in sight, the  thought that I am procrastinating disturbs my ability to open up my valves and let ideas flow freely.

However, there are times when an idea hits with such intensity that it doesn't matter at all what's going on around me - I could be in the middle of dinner, relaxing outside, or having a conversation - I must sit down at my keayboard or guitar and play, regardless of the surrounding level of organization or activity.

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 13, 2013, 01:38:48 AM
I do not like to draw or write music when there is something that needs done (say I have unwashed dishes or clothes). Even if the mess is not in sight, the  thought that I am procrastinating disturbs my ability to open up my valves and let ideas flow freely.

Interesting. I guess it might have to do with increasing your ability to focus on the task at hand by eliminating potential distractions. I can relate to this, but at other times find I am way too focused on minor details to get anything done.

I wonder what other factors might come into the equation. Perhaps nutrition, recent exposure to various stimuli (i.e. post-trekking or post day-job?), libido, the season, phases of the moon, who the hell knows?

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 13, 2013, 07:14:47 AM
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2385384/University-Minnesota-study-finds-working-cluttered-environment-makes-creative.html

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=10910094

Probably flawed (especially as regards defining creativity in the first place) but interesting nonetheless. Do any creative people here have a preference for tidy of messy? and what do you make of it?

As a muso, I think there is an element of truth in Nietzsche's sentiment that "to give birth to a dancing star once must have chaos in their heart", or what ever it was. You have to be able to make associations between things that other people don't see. Whether musical, poetic, etc. But these associations have to be in some sense not completely random and fucked up - or you get ultra expressionist abstract art or metalcore.

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 13, 2013, 10:05:59 AM
That is how non-creative people emulate creativity Imposition.

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 13, 2013, 03:13:15 PM
Creativity seems to be an aspect of personality, and creatives tend to work in, or be comfortable with, clutter to a degree many other people would find strange or disconcerting.

Artists are often fixed on control. Hence eccentricity, difficult personalities. Mess can be viewed as an indirect form of control through non-action. Also, this:

You have to be able to make associations between things that other people don't see. Whether musical, poetic, etc. But these associations have to be in some sense not completely random and fucked up - or you get ultra expressionist abstract art or metalcore.

Art is a created aesthesis of choice cultural artifacts. Creation requires exploring realms otherwise understood or believed to be disorderly, messy, or confusing. Ultimately it is language - a new means of comprehension.

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 13, 2013, 11:10:48 PM
I imagine imagination (heh) is most likely fueled by moving back and forth between order and disorder.  Opposites create friction, friction creates energy, energy is eternal delight.  Also there are two orders of order and disorder (double heh), there is the order and disorder within the mind and there is order and disorder concerning one's external surroundings.

Think about the writer/chaos magician William Burroughs.  He has the ability to write lucidly if he chooses, but some of his best writing might be said to be disordered.  His personal life was fairly disordered, but he seemed to keep it together enough to not completely unravel.  He basically talks about this in his writing.  And as far as his process goes, if I remember right, he was fairly organized in that he had a cache of writing that he archived, but then mixed it all up and edited it together to produce the ultimate "disordered" final draft.

Similarly, I remember an old Hong Kong film with Jackie Chan where he was fighting bad guys in a shopping mall.  Consider it from the point of view of the director.  You have an elaborate set and you can only shoot it once.  You have to systematically plan how you will film it with cameras in the right place, you have to edit and cut properly to achieve maximum effect.  But from the point of view of the actors, they were obviously told to just destroy everything, completely dismantle the set, and go wild.  The end effect was incredibly well organized destruction.  It was a sight to behold and I would say it is a good analogy for how the imagination is fueled.
His Majesty at the Swamp / Black Arts Lead to Everlasting Sins / Diabolical Fullmoon Mysticism / Oath of Black Blood / Privilege of Evil / Dawn of Possession / In Battle There is No Law / Thousand Swords / To Mega Therion

Phoenix

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 14, 2013, 05:05:32 AM
"Tidiness" is a human invention - you can't find such a grouping of square angles and straight lines in nature.

But in conversations like these I find it's incredibly important to remember: "messiness" is equally a human invention.

If a room or an office is organized so that it works well, in context of the work one wishes to accomplish, then whether it's "tidy" or "messy" is irrelevant, it's simply efficient.

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 14, 2013, 05:08:57 AM
Have you never studied crystalline structures? They abound in nature.
Ice? Snowflakes? Frost?
All full of straight lines, angles and squares.
Squawk!

Phoenix

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 14, 2013, 05:16:42 AM
Have you never studied crystalline structures? They abound in nature.
Ice? Snowflakes? Frost?
All full of straight lines, angles and squares.

There are exceptions to every rule, indeed not everything human is full of square angles and straight lines. The point is that tidiness and messiness is a single, human-derived spectrum of neatness, based on human attributes of perspective practically non-existent in nature. Nature never arranges itself merely to be straight as opposed to staggered, nature deals purely in efficiency. Sometimes square angles and straight lines are most efficient, sometimes they just distract us.

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 14, 2013, 05:24:05 AM
My rabbit was messier than any human I've ever met.
And I've met some very, very messy humans.
Squawk!

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 14, 2013, 07:14:20 AM
"Tidiness" is a human invention - you can't find such a grouping of square angles and straight lines in nature.

Entropy?

I don't know much about it, but I know its an objective principle that it takes more energy to get to an ordered state than the reverse.

That might explain my sharehouse.

Re: Disorder inspires imaginative ideas
August 15, 2013, 04:10:38 PM
Is there anything wrong with a 'human invention'?
I guess only when it suits one to say so.
Squawk!