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Spiritualism

Re: Spiritualism
August 30, 2013, 05:54:58 AM
Are you atheists? If not, what are your belief, are you pluralists? What is your religion?

a-Theism - in the sense that to think a supernatural agent rules the roost is baseless.

Physicalism - in the sense that science is the best methodology for answering the questions about origins, workings, and 'nature'.

Essentialism - in the sense that I find meaning in studying (via science and philosophy) the prior forms ('nature') from which our Being originates, and believe that a meaningful life consists in measuring yourself against these prior forms, and in being at peace with them. The schoolmen studied God and his processes in the middle ages. Today I read about nature and biology.

Trascendentalism - in the sene that I like stories about self-overbecoming, art and architecture that is inspired by a sense of looking above and away from the merely human

I don't find traditionalists (catholics for example) as problematic as other atheists, because of their transcendentalism. I don't usually get on with metaphysical non-physicalists. I can talk with humanists on scientific topics, but I am simply not moved much at all by art and literature that is focused on human problems, or with charity, poverty, 'comingtogetherness' etc.

Re: Spiritualism
August 30, 2013, 05:49:39 PM
I've heard curiosity described by a Zen teacher as the opposite of Zen. I've also talked at length with an eloquent craftsman, who described curiosity as the ultimate form of love. I tend to agree with the craftsman.

knowledge (n.)
early 12c., cnawlece "acknowledgment of a superior, honor, worship;" for first element see know. Second element obscure, perhaps from Scandinavian and cognate with the -lock "action, process," found in wedlock. Meaning "capacity for knowing, understanding; familiarity; fact of knowing" is late 14c. Sense of "an organized body of facts or teachings" is from c.1400, as is that of "sexual intercourse." Also a verb in Middle English, knoulechen "acknowledge" (c.1200), later "find out about; recognize," and "to have sexual intercourse with" (c.1300).
There are two kinds of inquisitiveness. One comes out of love for the thing being studied. A marriage should, ideally, pursue this behavior. The other comes out of love for knowledge itself; a hunger that is by its nature impossible to satiate. A (monogamous) marriage will run into problems with this for obvious reasons.

The first leads to intimacy with and expertise over a subject. The second is the reason we spend three hours on Wikipedia in one sitting when all we originally wanted to do was read about Krakatoa.

Re: Spiritualism
September 03, 2013, 07:01:11 AM
A 'Zen teacher' does not necessarily know anything about Zen.
In fact, it is likely that if he did, he would not be teaching it.

Curiosity can mean keen observation, as in focused interest.
This can exist without the addition of destructive testing, to discover the workings of what is being observed.

I am keenly interested in many, many things, by way of being a practiced observer of detail.
Yet I have never met anyone more able to maintain a Zen state, no matter what.
Well: no human, anyway...

Re: Spiritualism
September 03, 2013, 07:50:20 AM
What your posts have taught me, crow: You consistently point to something other than yourself. That's the subtlety of what's between the lines.

Between the lines is a 'je ne sais qoui', a 'I know not what'. This is not what you are literally saying, but what I consistently read out of what your saying.

It always tells me exactly what I need to know. I don't know how this can be, but it most certainly is.

Re: Spiritualism
September 03, 2013, 06:58:48 PM
This is the removal of ego. It results in what you see. Whatever that is.
Strangely, it screams ego to those who are chained to their own.
While whispering beguiling mystery to those in-between.
And a cool breath of oxygen to those few who thirst for true communication.


Re: Spiritualism
September 05, 2013, 09:09:40 AM
Now I see that you are indeed a real crow - not just a user by the name of crow.

I don't know how it is that I didn't see this before. I guess it was just too obvious.

To many, ego is the absolutely only obvious thing in the world. They only see that which does not exist, so everything that actually does has to be put aside.

It is for the few to put aside what the many find so obvious that they would never even dream of questioning it.

Thus the many will never become aware of that which is really, truly, simply obvious - that every breath is sweet.

Re: Spiritualism
September 05, 2013, 04:30:46 PM
What a great way to wake up, today.
This is the only really important stuff.
The missing ingredient that makes life noticeably alive.

Re: Spiritualism
September 06, 2013, 04:24:06 PM
crow: what do you think of animal testing? testing stuff on animals that get harmed in the process.

Re: Spiritualism
September 06, 2013, 05:24:16 PM
crow: what do you think of animal testing? testing stuff on animals that get harmed in the process.


I think it's none of my business. People do what they do.
I would not do this particular thing, under any circumstances, for any reason.
Scientists, however, have little reverence, which is probably what leads them to become scientists.


Re: Spiritualism
September 07, 2013, 10:16:55 AM
Animal testing is always done in the name of 'progress', on way or the other.

If humanity as such was really interested in life, I don't think we would spend so much energy trying to escape it's dark sides, disease, death etc. We would instead give them meaning.

That being said, I am grateful for some medicine, even though I am very rarely ill. But our species as such overdoes it to the extreme.

I think the widespread animal testing is a symptom of a bad collective attitude.


Re: Spiritualism
September 08, 2013, 05:58:51 PM
Empiricism is the word that best defines me now.


Empiricism.

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


This article is about the field of philosophy. For the album by Borknagar, see Empiricism (album).

Empiricism is a theory of knowledge which states that knowledge comes only or primarily from sensory experience. One of several views of epistemology, the study of human knowledge, along with rationalism, idealism, and historicism, empiricism emphasizes the role of experience and evidence, especially sensory experience, in the formation of ideas, over the notion of innate ideas or traditions; empiricists may argue however that traditions (or customs) arise due to relations of previous sense experiences.

Empiricism in the philosophy of science emphasizes evidence, especially as discovered in experiments. It is a fundamental part of the scientific method that all hypotheses and theories must be tested against observations of the natural world rather than resting solely on a priori reasoning, intuition, or revelation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism

Re: Spiritualism
September 09, 2013, 09:07:30 PM
Animal testing is always done in the name of 'progress', on way or the other.

If humanity as such was really interested in life, I don't think we would spend so much energy trying to escape it's dark sides, disease, death etc. We would instead give them meaning.

That being said, I am grateful for some medicine, even though I am very rarely ill. But our species as such overdoes it to the extreme.

I think the widespread animal testing is a symptom of a bad collective attitude.

How do you feel about the bible's take on this? Genesis 26 says "Then God said, 'Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'"

Do you think this verse influences our bad collective attitude against animals and nature in general, and why most western people don't give a thought to animal testing? I don't mean to sound antagonistic here. I know you're a Christian, and you seem much smarter than most Christians I've ever met. I'm genuinely curious about what you think about that.

Re: Spiritualism
September 09, 2013, 09:19:50 PM
That's a good/interesting question, and one I've considered before.
Ruling over creatures is not the same as violating, abusing, torturing or killing them.
To take precedence, perhaps, as aristocrats over serfs. To manage. Even to care for.

Humans are very practiced, though, at interpreting everything, to make things mean whatever they want things to mean. Is Christianity to blame, or just humans, generally?

Re: Spiritualism
September 09, 2013, 09:21:32 PM
Animal testing is always done in the name of 'progress', on way or the other.

If humanity as such was really interested in life, I don't think we would spend so much energy trying to escape it's dark sides, disease, death etc. We would instead give them meaning.

That being said, I am grateful for some medicine, even though I am very rarely ill. But our species as such overdoes it to the extreme.

I think the widespread animal testing is a symptom of a bad collective attitude.

How do you feel about the bible's take on this? Genesis 26 says "Then God said, 'Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.'"

Do you think this verse influences our bad collective attitude against animals and nature in general, and why most western people don't give a thought to animal testing? I don't mean to sound antagonistic here. I know you're a Christian, and you seem much smarter than most Christians I've ever met. I'm genuinely curious about what you think about that.

You have to take this portion in context with the rest of the book. We have dominion because we are instructed to act as shepards.  This is not a failure of the Bible, it is a failure of the human.