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Innovators are better

Innovators are better
August 18, 2013, 10:09:06 PM
I was thinking, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that only innovator music make success, I'm not talking about fame and money, but have you think about this? Why these new old-school bands are different, they present the same sonority, what make the original bands superior. The best answer for this, is what the innovator bands are better. The new musicians aren't make a modern sound, if are, are going really far, like Slipknot and Avenged Sevenfold, they create a modern sound, but isn't what we hessian want. Where are our actual Morbid Angel, our actual Burzum, out actual Paradise Lost. This answer why listen these new black metal bands are so boring, the musicians aren't creating a good modern sound, they are making a exactly copy, I'm not talking about the new black metal, but i consider they a little boring too.

Black metal, death metal and grindcore was good before over,  we can go on, you can have influences but these genres are dead.

Where are our innovators musicians?

Re: Innovators are better
August 18, 2013, 10:23:49 PM
I don't think there will be major improvement in music anymore. The next step is to take the spirit of those bands as well as the spirit of what's good in this world and try ''to reach the sky'' in real life. I think pretty much as already been done, be it in music, in spiritual theory, philosophy, etc. No need of new ''food'' here. We only need to ''digest'' what we have already eat.   

Re: Innovators are better
August 18, 2013, 10:50:29 PM
I don't think there will be major improvement in music anymore. The next step is to take the spirit of those bands as well as the spirit of what's good in this world and try ''to reach the sky'' in real life. I think pretty much as already been done, be it in music, in spiritual theory, philosophy, etc. No need of new ''food'' here. We only need to ''digest'' what we have already eat.

Like put the metal idea in practice? Yes I agree with you, but nobody will have fun making music :/

Re: Innovators are better
August 19, 2013, 02:38:43 AM
The prevailing idea on this forum is that metal has already been done, is over, peaked some time ago and new metal is redundant at best and detrimental at worst. Metal was some sort of apex achieved through the evolution of rock music and now there is nowhere to go but down.

This is a short-sighted and narrow-minded idea, though. Music exists beyond ideologies; it is not a vehicle for social change or cognitive honing. It has the capacity to *be used* in those regards but that is not music's *purpose*.

I can guess that most posters here are not musicians or have done much in-depth study of music, which is frankly too bad. There is joy in music that goes much deeper than what a song is trying to *tell you*.

Some of the greatest music ever written was "absolute music", meaning that it did not reference anything outside of itself,  lyrically or thematically. Someday there will be a return to this form and the blaze of brilliance created by its innovators will cause all of this human-focused music to pale and wither.


Re: Innovators are better
August 19, 2013, 03:02:05 AM

Maybe we should try to unveil the hidden music of the universe and transpose it in audible sounds. The music of the gods


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAPNfKADA7Y


Re: Innovators are better
August 19, 2013, 04:31:08 PM
The prevailing idea on this forum is that metal has already been done, is over, peaked some time ago and new metal is redundant at best and detrimental at worst. Metal was some sort of apex achieved through the evolution of rock music and now there is nowhere to go but down.

This is a short-sighted and narrow-minded idea, though. Music exists beyond ideologies; it is not a vehicle for social change or cognitive honing. It has the capacity to *be used* in those regards but that is not music's *purpose*.

I can guess that most posters here are not musicians or have done much in-depth study of music, which is frankly too bad. There is joy in music that goes much deeper than what a song is trying to *tell you*.

Some of the greatest music ever written was "absolute music", meaning that it did not reference anything outside of itself,  lyrically or thematically. Someday there will be a return to this form and the blaze of brilliance created by its innovators will cause all of this human-focused music to pale and wither.

so, what is next in your opinion

Re: Innovators are better
August 19, 2013, 05:42:45 PM
The next kind of great music will do away with lyrics and rock instruments, maybe using only electronically produced noises (I like to write music with sine waves since they make some bizarre harmonic reactions). It will be purely narrative music, but will only narrate itself rather than try to translate events or emotions.

I guess you could say it is a type of music that worships math.

Of course this is all a wild guess. I like to write absolute music, though. It is very liberating for my mind and when I'm done, I feel that gods and demons have spoken through me.

Re: Innovators are better
August 19, 2013, 09:09:10 PM
The next kind of great music will do away with lyrics and rock instruments, maybe using only electronically produced noises (I like to write music with sine waves since they make some bizarre harmonic reactions). It will be purely narrative music, but will only narrate itself rather than try to translate events or emotions.

I guess you could say it is a type of music that worships math.

Of course this is all a wild guess. I like to write absolute music, though. It is very liberating for my mind and when I'm done, I feel that gods and demons have spoken through me.

Like mathcore, who is influenced by grind/noise, technical music and experimental. Like Converge?
Can you list me some prototypes?

Re: Innovators are better
August 19, 2013, 10:02:25 PM
No, not mathcore like Converge or Dillinger Escape plan, but music that can be written by an individual almost like encapsulating a train of thought. It will worship math not in the sense of rigid numerical formulas, but math in the sense of two waves moving through eachother, reverberating, phasing, distorting.

I wish I could show you examples of prototypes but there are none. This is completely my own idea of music and I'm the only practitioner.

The closest thing I can think of would be music by Rhys Chatham (Crimson Grail) or Lamonte Young (The Well-Tuned Piano).

Have you ever wondered what kind of music a great composer could create if he did not have to translate his music through an instrument? If he could plug wires straight into his brain and generate tones of any pitch or frequency or sonority with just a thought? That's the music of the future.

Re: Innovators are better
August 20, 2013, 12:08:24 AM
Some of the greatest music ever written was "absolute music", meaning that it did not reference anything outside of itself,  lyrically or thematically. Someday there will be a return to this form and the blaze of brilliance created by its innovators will cause all of this human-focused music to pale and wither.

What are some good examples of this absolute music?

Re: Innovators are better
August 20, 2013, 12:26:05 AM
I don't see why someone couldn't create good music in an already thoroughly explored musical language or alternatively create a new language and music altogether (though nothing's altogether new you know). There is potential for just about anything in this world when you find it.

Re: Innovators are better
August 20, 2013, 02:49:57 AM
DM: Probably the first example that always comes to my mind is Beethoven's 9th, but his 5th and 6th are probably good examples too. Some of Beethoven's other works probably count although some people would argue that, since it has human voices in it, it shouldn't be counted as absolute music.

Phillip Glass' stuff was what got me interested in absolute music when I was younger. Rather than point to any one specific album, I'd recommend anything from the Kronos Quartet album since it has all very good picks and I just like string quartets a lot.

Some of Brahm's work could be considered absolute. Pierre Boulez wrote many pieces that are most definitely absolute. Maurice Ravel wrote some absolute music I think; one good indication is that the pieces are not named after anything but their own form ("La Valse" is exactly what it sounds like; a waltz).

One of the supposed requirements of absolute music is that no lyrics are present, since obviously lyrics represent concepts that exist without the notes of the music itself, but I still consider a lot of death metal to be absolute music or really close to it. It would be no question if the lyrics were removed.

As far as I know, "absolute music" wasn't ever an established form of writing, it was just a descriptor that was applied by critics long after the music was written.

However, I plan on turning that around and writing music with no reference to anything outside of the composition itself. If you or grecocastro are interested, I can probably share some parts of compositions I have written over the years.

aquarius: I don't see why not either! That's why I still get excited for new metal bands every once in a while. There are also plenty of composers in the last few decades who are expanding techniques for piano, string quartets, and full orchestras (try Edgar Varese' "Ionisation" for an example of totally original percussive composition).

Re: Innovators are better
August 20, 2013, 11:47:26 PM
Some of Beethoven's other works probably count although some people would argue that, since it has human voices in it, it shouldn't be counted as absolute music.

Who are "some people"? Developing an individualist vocabulary is reasonable - providing references in the above manner is not.

Music exists beyond ideologies; it is not a vehicle for social change or cognitive honing. It has the capacity to *be used* in those regards but that is not music's *purpose*.

I can guess that most posters here are not musicians or have done much in-depth study of music, which is frankly too bad. There is joy in music that goes much deeper than what a song is trying to *tell you*.

Creation is craft - the process is often of far greater significance than the product. The valuation of art in the modern world is a distinctive, trendy process. Though not inherently faulty, its criticism is not supreme.

Re: Innovators are better
August 21, 2013, 06:04:22 AM
I disagree on the most basic level.

Art is never interpreted purely. What begins as an idea in the originator's mind never translates without mutation into observers' minds.

The death and black metal bands so worshiped by ANUS (and this site by extension) were a bunch of asshole drunks and misanthropes. Very little high artistic vision to be found there. If you want a death/black metal band basing their music off of pure ideology rather than misanthropic reaction, you have to look beyond the year 2000.

The product is in fact more significant than the process.

If you want to hear some of the absurd arguments regarding the choral works of Beethoven and whether or not it is "absolute music", you can start here.

http://michelinewalker.com/2011/10/14/the-idea-of-absolute-music/

And then you can give up pretty much right away because it is a silly argument and I regret bringing it up in the first place. Just trying to put my own relative opinion in perspective because I am hardly *THE* authority on the absolute vs. program  music argument.

Re: Innovators are better
August 21, 2013, 12:27:36 PM
The death and black metal bands so worshiped by ANUS (and this site by extension) were a bunch of asshole drunks and misanthropes. Very little high artistic vision to be found there. If you want a death/black metal band basing their music off of pure ideology rather than misanthropic reaction, you have to look beyond the year 2000.

I agree with this, but I believe it corroborates my statement. Their end product is not "transcendent" /  whatever, and even if it is remarkable - relatively speaking - it's just a flash in the pan. The vast majority came about in a less than 5 year period (again, respective to each genre). It's been what, 20 years since? In that regard, it's the exception to the rule.