A better insanity than neurosis

[aquarius]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8MjDyfcMmU

[Squarekiller23]

That's a great documentary. Werner Herzog is one of the greatest artists of our time. All of his other ones are just as good as that one.

And it reminded of something I was thinking about a few days ago: why the fuck do people kill animals (especially wild ones) that kill humans? Do they seriously think they're subject to man made laws? Do they think that the animals aren't acting off instinct, but actually plotting murder? That pisses me off like none other.

[trystero]

It depends on the animal, but predators that kill a human are known to make a habit of it, some tigers being legendary in this regard. Once they identify humans as potential prey, they are a threat. Domesticated animals like dogs prove behaviour incompatible with their very purpose (they must fundamentally coexist with humanity) and once again, are a proven threat. Of course they are animals acting off instinct, but instinct is not automatism. They are living, learning creatures. Anyway, that is the reason they dont get a trial!

Perhaps it would be interesting to explore why you have this visceral reaction when you dont really care about the dead human? What kind of a species has such a skewed preservation instinct? I believe this to be a perversion of human instinct essentially, in favour of empathic rationality. Despite that if your kin was killed by a bear you would lead the bear holocaust.

[Squarekiller23]

Just because I didn't say anything about the dead guy doesn't mean I don't care about him. Timothy Treadwell was a bit of a fruit, but he seemed like an honest, genuine human being, and cared deeply about the bears that he lived with. I think it's very sad that he got killed by something that he loved so much. I still don't understand why they had to kill the bear though. They were so far away from anything resembling civilization that it probably never would've had the chance to kill another person.

When a dog like a pit-bull or rottweiler goes off and kills the neighbor, I can understand why it would be put down. As you said, they have to co-exist peacefully with humans, and when they violate that relationship they become a threat. I guess my frustration is directed at the people whose immediate reaction is "a person died!? WORST THING EVER! KILL THAT ANIMAL AND SHOW IT JUSTICE!", instead of giving it any thought.

And I definitely wouldn't lead a bear holocaust if one of my loved ones was killed by bear, no more than I would lead a pool holocaust if one of them drowned.

[aquarius]

Just because I didn't say anything about the dead guy doesn't mean I don't care about him. Timothy Treadwell was a bit of a fruit, but he seemed like an honest, genuine human being, and cared deeply about the bears that he lived with.

That's the part of the story that got me in. It's that he's not any smarty-pants, just an average everyday fool that against the most unlikely of circumstances, managed to find a way out of the cesspit the rest of the world is drowning in. No amount of intelligence makes up for the mental strength required to do that.

[trystero]

I mean... I can sort of see it, but anyone who goes to live with fucking bears is just a loon. It is one thing to live in nature apart from modernity, it is another to be chums with a creature that can behead you with a slap, whose driving motivations you cant really understand. Red in tooth and claw means respect, and this was not respect.

That reaction is a normal human reaction, but I have to be honest, I am not happy about the dead bear. Dont get me wrong, I feel for the bear more than Treadwell. It is just a curious thing...

But I do know if Treadwell was my brother I would be hankering for a bear pelt... Curiouser.

[Squarekiller23]

Just because I didn't say anything about the dead guy doesn't mean I don't care about him. Timothy Treadwell was a bit of a fruit, but he seemed like an honest, genuine human being, and cared deeply about the bears that he lived with.

That's the part of the story that got me in. It's that he's not any smarty-pants, just an average everyday fool that against the most unlikely of circumstances, managed to find a way out of the cesspit the rest of the world is drowning in. No amount of intelligence makes up for the mental strength required to do that.

I know where you're coming from there. I admire people who do this, even if they are a bit nutty, or even if what they're doing is a bit stupid. I feel the same way about Christopher McCandless. Yeah, he had no idea what he was doing and it got him killed, but he knew there was more to life than day-jobs and television, so he went seeking it. He tried, which is more than what 99.9999999% of us can say.

But I do know if Treadwell was my brother I would be hankering for a bear pelt... Curiouser.

I just can't wrap my head around that. What would that accomplish? You said you feel more for the bear than the person, so why would you kill one? It isn't like the bear would understand the idea of revenge like a human could.

[Ymir]

My first reaction to Timothy Treadwell was the typical, "Who is this closeted liberal loon and why should I think he's important?" But after researching more and reading a transcript of his death, my attitude changed. He may have had denial issues but his desire to break free from himself and society to connect with the transcendent is admirable. He may have been a weakling in some respects but he died a true warrior. Not a role model by any stretch but his story is a modern fable that deserves attention.

[trystero]

I suppose I must admit there is something to him after all, but I maintain he was a bit crazy and got eaten because of it. In all honesty, he is indirectly responsible for that bear`s death.

I just can't wrap my head around that. What would that accomplish?

Really? You dont understand it at all? If he was my brother I would be incensed beyond reason and wish the death of the bear despite knowing all of this rationally. That is what we are. You may ignore it, but surely you understand it?

[crow]

I recently shot a raccoon with my bow.
This is something rare for me: I don't kill wasps, mosquitoes, anything.
But this was an insane raccoon, and posed a danger to me, my wife, cats, rabbits, other raccoons...
It had to go.
So, responsible people do what they have to, even if they hate doing it.
This is probably quite different, though, to being emotionally motivated.

[Squarekiller23]

I just can't wrap my head around that. What would that accomplish?

Really? You dont understand it at all? If he was my brother I would be incensed beyond reason and wish the death of the bear despite knowing all of this rationally. That is what we are. You may ignore it, but surely you understand it?

When you put it that way, yes, I get it. I was thinking about it in terms of following through with those feelings of revenge, not just experiencing the feelings themselves.