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Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?

Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 26, 2007, 11:24:06 AM
I understand that ANUS itself has brought around this topic over and over again but i still find it rather vague. Cannibal Corpse had emerged before bands such as Immolation, Incantation and Suffocation. SVP claims they ripped them off, how so? Cannibal Corpse had never changed their music or their image thus wouldn't it be easier to say that such bands ripped them off?

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 26, 2007, 03:43:30 PM
1.  Cannibal Corpse's early material wasn't in line with the NYDM stylings they took on with their third (I think it was the third, it could have been the fourth, don't hold me to that) album.  

2.  Morpheus (Descends).

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 26, 2007, 04:11:40 PM
When was Morpheus (Descends) around, because their album came out around 92 and thats the same year many sources say they formed, unless that refers to their playing under that name as I know they were simply Morpheus before.

I've always thought CC's early work was like a poor slayer. More "brutal" or whatever but less interesting, and their albums sound sloppy or lazy to me(and yes I know how good Alex webster is supposed to be).

Also saying Suffocation/immolation ripped of CC is like saying Slayer ripped off Venom or the Sex Pistols.

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 26, 2007, 10:20:19 PM
The CC style on their demo (1989) and first album (1990) was for the most part a half-formed, more primitive death/speed metal hybrid, pretty common for other bands around the US at that time, though there were some touch-ups and aesthetic changes made between the demo and album that hinted at a different approach. The heavily down-tuned "NYDM" stylings were inserted with "Butchered at Birth" (1991) and solidified with the albums that followed.  Bands like MORPHEUS (DESCENDS) and SUFFOCATION were already producing material similar to their respective bands' later albums at the same time (1989 - 1990).  CC and the "NYDM" bands didn't share exactly the same "scene," either, as they were from Upstate (along with MALEVOLENT CREATION and BAPHOMENT, with whom they clearly shared influences) while the rest were in the NYC/Jersey area.  I'm not sure if "rip-off" need be applied for CC as I can't say with any certainty how blatant their borrowing of style was (rather than a simple cross-influence), but implying that the case is the opposite doesn't hold much water either.

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 26, 2007, 11:42:11 PM
Rip-off or not, all that really matters is that Cannibal Corpse's music never had much of import to communicate and never made any worthwhile advancements within the death metal genre, and has instead, stayed true to form as a monolith of mediocrity for a solid fifteen-plus years.

Their first two albums are the only two that I would consider to be moderately enjoyable, but even then, it's a very banal approach to the genre, and frankly, there are tons of superior alternatives that should be occupying one's listening time instead.

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 26, 2007, 11:50:06 PM
It's clearly a ripoff of death metal, like some outsider looked at death metal and thought, I can fake that, but add ball caps and beer mugs and make idiots really love it.


Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 26, 2007, 11:58:52 PM
in order to play the new york style of playing you need to have been playing in that particular way for quite awhile, i know plenty of virtuoso guitar players who wouldn't be able to play most early suffocation (this is due to the difference in style as opposed to them lacking the time and effort inserted into an instrument to achieve such a level) so its a bit much to say they ripped of death metal, the members of cannibal corpse are obviously enthusiastic about the genre

Wolfbane

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 27, 2007, 12:00:02 AM
rip off, no. Morpheus Descends were somewhat influenced by them and so were a few others. I enjoy butchered at birth and the other two early albums to a certain extent. They were a genuine death metal band back then. Ever since corpsegrinder joined they've been streamlined and a nice little product for the kiddies. I can think of shittier bands then CC (mortician, almost everything from England) and commercial sellouts (The End Complete anyone?)

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 27, 2007, 11:26:27 AM
Quote
When was Morpheus (Descends) around, because their album came out around 92 and thats the same year many sources say they formed, unless that refers to their playing under that name as I know they were simply Morpheus before.

I've always thought CC's early work was like a poor slayer. More "brutal" or whatever but less interesting, and their albums sound sloppy or lazy to me(and yes I know how good Alex webster is supposed to be).

Also saying Suffocation/immolation ripped of CC is like saying Slayer ripped off Venom or the Sex Pistols.


CC is very lazy music, however thast is mainly due to that absolutely useless drummer Paul. Sloppy? I doubt it...listen to Frantic Disembowelment, although the songwriting is too primitive to depend upon, the band can still play their instruments.

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 27, 2007, 11:30:01 AM
Quote
Rip-off or not, all that really matters is that Cannibal Corpse's music never had much of import to communicate and never made any worthwhile advancements within the death metal genre, and has instead, stayed true to form as a monolith of mediocrity for a solid fifteen-plus years.

Their first two albums are the only two that I would consider to be moderately enjoyable, but even then, it's a very banal approach to the genre, and frankly, there are tons of superior alternatives that should be occupying one's listening time instead.


The best way to put it together. Cannibal Corpse suffers from lack any of any form of intellect, they rely upon the already composed insidious nature of Death Metal, aded to that the comic, stereotype the genre is already given for a "brutal" attack on your ears. Really, the music is completely useless and i think most fans are complete idiots, seriously, who assume that their music means something serious...

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 27, 2007, 11:34:16 AM
Quote
in order to play the new york style of playing you need to have been playing in that particular way for quite awhile, i know plenty of virtuoso guitar players who wouldn't be able to play most early suffocation (this is due to the difference in style as opposed to them lacking the time and effort inserted into an instrument to achieve such a level) so its a bit much to say they ripped of death metal, the members of cannibal corpse are obviously enthusiastic about the genre


You know quite alot of virtuosos? I think you are just using the term a little too loosely for your own good. Don't forget, the general level of individuals today differs too much from those of the 80's. For example, if you know a friend who plays Jason Becker now, by no means should you consider him a virtuoso since the general standard of the term "skill" has been raised considerably since then.

However i agree with your last point, Cannibal Corpse didn't necessarily rip off anything, (except Webster who did rip off the Suffocation bassist with Hammer Smashed Face), but it is just nonsensical, idiotic music.

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
February 27, 2007, 10:59:00 PM
well i over exaggerated when i said plenty, more like three

Nile577

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
March 01, 2007, 12:41:46 AM
I think they're an excellent and important band, in tune with the 'philosophical' thrust (no, not ponderous sex) of Death Metal.  Most of their fans aren't.

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
March 01, 2007, 01:03:23 AM
Quote
I think they're an excellent and important band, in tune with the 'philosophical' thrust (no, not ponderous sex) of Death Metal.  Most of their fans aren't.


If CANNIBAL CORPSE ripped off anything, it was the stylings of AUTOPSY for the most part.  What about CC is "in-tune" with any philosophical thrust?  They took their imagery and ran with it from the word go, all to an incredibly monotonous tune.

Wolfbane

Re: Cannibal Corpse a ripoff?
March 01, 2007, 05:26:41 PM
You could argue there was more to the lyrics of CC than just shock value. Their lyrics were more grotesque than Autopsy's and more in line with most of the very real fantasies of serial killers than most death metal bands. This made them more offensive since it had more to do with modern society rather than fantasy. Tomb of the Mutilated lyrics are basically the heterosexual version of Jeff Dahmer's crime spree albeit a bit exaggerated. It's in line with Death Metal's ideology of exposing mortality in grotesque fashion to a necrophobic society.

Seriously CC's first three albums are a lot better than most of the shit out today and they didn't just rely on stupid shock value like Pungent Stench.