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Cops rediscover cure for mental illness

Re: Cops rediscover cure for mental illness
October 21, 2013, 07:15:43 PM
No casual link has ever been established.

Bullshit. "Pharmaceutical psychotropics" (eg psychiatric medication) encompasses many different classes of drugs--from mood stabilizers to anti-psychotics to stimulants--each of which containing dozens of  unique drugs. To make a blanket statement claiming that every single one of these drugs is ineffective is utterly absurd and smacks of an emotional reaction to an idea you don't like.

I'm an active nihilist. Your words mean nothing. Only empirical evidence talks.

So show me even one study. Just one finding. Just one is all I need to consider that you may be correct.

Can you do it, Tralfamadorian?

Re: Cops rediscover cure for mental illness
October 22, 2013, 06:45:33 AM
Has anyone here had experience with depression or antidepressant medication personally?

I was diagnosed with depression several years ago. Evidently, a deficiency in serotonin (which is a mood stabilizer) causes apathy, lack of motivation, disinterest in activities and people that would otherwise seem worthwhile and fulfilling. So without a test of any kind (aside fronm amy doctor asking me a handful of questions relating to apathy and motivation) I was prescribed a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. Basically, it is a drug that is engineered to reduce the "recycling" of serotonin and so maintain an overall higher quantity of the stuff that my brain might have an easier time picking the precious little molecules up.

Now, my serotonin levels were not measured, but according to my doctor, they could be if she thought it was necessary, but in her professional opinion was not. So there you have a test that can confirm serotonin levels which are immediately linked to symptoms of depression.

Anyway, I slept a lot, and felt less depressed about things generally, but also *felt* a lot less generally. Usually my workday was rife with snotty jokes between my manager and I, but he commented on how weird I was for never needling him back when he was giving me shit. The same thing occured with the rest of my friends.

So I decided to stop taking the SSRI. I also stopped smoking cigarettes, started doing a lot of LSD quit working and drove around the country playing music, started talking to girls (after losing a relationship with a girl that I liked a lot but treated like my bitch), and left my punk band.

I feel much better now.

My conclusion; if you are depressed, you have the option of treating your symptoms, but at a fair price: Most likely you will still feel as apathetic as ever but you won't really care that you feel that way. This conclusion comes not just from my own experience but whle observing a girl who switched between SSRIs for years and a bandmate who has tried different SSRIs over the years as well (who also concluded that large doses of LSD are more useful in curing depression than SSRIs).

Therefore, if you are depressed, the best thing to do is quit what you are doing and start doing other things. Oversimplification? Maybe (not).

Re: Cops rediscover cure for mental illness
October 22, 2013, 07:08:10 AM
Serotonin `deficiency` as a cause of depression is sophistry, it is the mechanistic description of what occurs, sure, but it is not strictly accepted as the causal mechanism. Like when you feel happy, undoubtedly a lot of chemicals move about, but in the end you are not able to reduce the experience of happiness solely to the movement of neurotransmitters and hormones. The answer may in fact be mechanistic, but many degrees more complex. The serotonin deficiency thing was only ever really pop science. Psychopharmacology is frankly, a shady field which progresses mostly by accident and partially by the push of pharmaceutical companies. SSRIs are incredibly, incredibly overused and only really just make you apathetic. In fact, almost every drug used in the field, even ones of different groups for different conditions, do the same thing. They blunt the affect and make you a zombie.

Re: Cops rediscover cure for mental illness
October 22, 2013, 07:32:06 AM
Yes, zombification, that is a good analogy for the experience.

I guess it makes sense that I only have a layman's understanding of the mechanism of depression. I'm not educated in much biology, let alone chemistry or medicine. But I have developed a pretty acute sense of my own psychology (idiomatic as it may be) and would still thoroughly discourage the use of SSRIs for anyone who feels depressed. The old methods are useful; work out, have sex, drop acid, drop your social responsibilites if they are an impediment, stop worrying about categorizing what you want to do and what you have to do, do things that you are afraid to do.

Brains are machines that work through physical processes just like everything else, so it should be obvious that if something is wrong with your mood, the physical space around your brain should be adjusted before you can expect to see good results.

Re: Cops rediscover cure for mental illness
October 22, 2013, 12:27:56 PM
So show me even one study. Just one finding. Just one is all I need to consider that you may be correct.
For antidepressants:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD007954/abstract
Quote
[TCAs and SSRIs] were compared against a placebo control group in the treatment of depression. The results showed that both TCAs and SSRIs were effective for depression.

http://www.jad-journal.com/article/S0165-0327(12)00451-X/abstract
Quote
This systematic review provides evidence for the efficacy of both SSRIs and TCAs in the treatment of chronic depression and showed a better acceptability of SSRIs.

http://archpsyc.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=668229
Quote
Treatment with SSRIs is associated with symptomatic improvement in depression by the end of the first week of use, and the improvement continues at a decreasing rate for at least 6 weeks.
------------------

Trystero, on what do you base the claim that psychiatric medication 'zombifies'? As far as I know, it is a unscientific rumor perpetuated by pop culture (for example, the terrible movie 'Garden State').


Re: Cops rediscover cure for mental illness
October 22, 2013, 05:06:57 PM
Rumor? This is their intended effect. I have been on SSRIs in the past (a trial for migraine, not depression) so a bit of personal experience, the rest is clinical experience and well, just the nature of the medication. These drugs definitely do make you apathetic, they take away the highs as well as the lows, but patients report this to varying degrees. People with extreme depression are sometimes just happy enough that they are out of it to not care (until it returns). Also apathy is quite insidious, you dont really have insight into it unless you engage in things that cause a lot of emotion. Metal was ruined for me, for instance.

No class of medication is effective as a treatment for depression (here I am talking about so called endogenous, or out-of-the-blue depression). They are all symptomatic remedies in their thrust. If a person is depressed for some easily identifiable reason, only fixing that will treat the problem. There is currently little evidence that these medications are efficacious in preventing the condition when taken prophylactically because it takes decades to establish. Nevertheless, they have entered treatment without this degree of evidence.

Psychopharmaceuticals are one of those things, like race and IQ and climate science, that you will only become less informed about the more you stick to the mainstream. I know crackpot conspiracies and pseudoscience is annoying, but this only hinders a more nuanced understanding of these conditions; and ultimately cognition itself.

SSRIs are effective enough with nuanced, narrow use especially when combined with behavioural therapy, but they are overprescribed to such a vast degree that noise about medicated zombies is not unrealistic. More important is where this epidemic of mental illness comes from, it is an entirely new thing. My main point is that this isnt really worth arguing about this strongly.

Re: Cops rediscover cure for mental illness
October 30, 2013, 08:13:06 PM
Hey Tralfamadorian,

I asked for hard scientific evidence that I could see, not soft acadumbic ramblings that I don't even have access to.

El oh el?