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If it really is me.

Re: If it really is me.
November 11, 2013, 10:38:11 PM
What you say seems plausible, but I can't do it yet. So here I am with my thoughts.

Re: If it really is me.
November 11, 2013, 10:43:52 PM
Join nearly everybody else :)
If it was easy, everybody would be doing it.
But if, and when, you succeed, you'll laugh yourself silly with the realization of how absurdly easy it actually was.



Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 01:34:45 AM
Am I my even thoughts? Are my thoughts even me?

Have you ever seriously meditated?

I believe it teaches you that your thoughts have a life of their own.

Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 02:37:07 AM
My body is me as much as any other part of myself is me. I am not a spirit animating a robot, but flesh and blood through and through. Without my flesh I would be something else, if I was at all. I wondered about this for some time, but eventually reached the conclusion that there is no separation there. The physical process of thought and the metaphysical element are all one. Neurons fire, creativity is born, not one without the other.

Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 02:40:14 AM
You don't imagine, then, that when your body is gone, some essence of you will live on?

Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 03:22:22 AM
I believe it will be reborn, body and all eventually. Yes, I do believe some essence will survive after my death, which shall be me diminished until it is made whole.

Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 03:31:44 AM
Reincarnation then? Quite a popular belief, so I hear.
You might imagine someone like me would be very interested in such things, but strangely it holds no interest at all.
I often wonder about that lack of interest. Very odd.

Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 05:01:59 AM
My body is me as much as any other part of myself is me. I am not a spirit animating a robot, but flesh and blood through and through. Without my flesh I would be something else, if I was at all. I wondered about this for some time, but eventually reached the conclusion that there is no separation there. The physical process of thought and the metaphysical element are all one. Neurons fire, creativity is born, not one without the other.

I definitely agree.

However, to my experience there are still sources of dualism, realised on the physical plane, no doubt.

As I said, mediation is great a posteriori evidence that 'you' are not a particular bundle of thoughts that arise on a particular occasion. You see that thoughts just pop up and float by, niggling and nagging your brain for 'your' attention!

Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 02:42:21 PM
The body is made from bits of borrowed carbon. The individual is a design, a specific structure, the constituents are interchangeable. The components are necessary for expression of that structure but they are not that structure.

You are a It, but you have an I. It doesn't make a lot of sense to claim ownership of some accreted atoms that spell out your shape. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to claim ownership of the thoughts peopling your skull. It's a problem that these things are so easy to do.

Well that's a brief recap of my thought process after ingesting a threshold dose of LSD* with too much noopept and taking my dog for a walk.

 *about a tenth of a tab but this is north Australian acid so I imagine it's brewed by some filthy pentagenarian Tableland dwelling hippy scumfuck PLUR bastard in suboptimal conditions and probably utilizing gonad sweat as a core ingredient: The tab was fairly weak.

Was the thread title referring to the Polygon Window song of the same name?

Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 03:33:28 PM
I've spent long wondering about stuff like this. What is this 'I'?

There's no satisfying answer except the no-answer:

I am not 'body'.
I am not 'soul'.
I am not a slave of anything.
But neither am I something independent of my experience.

I cannot say that I am something fixed or static. But neither am I in a constant state of flux. Something changes, and something remains the same. Always.

It is not impossible that all of this could go on in some shape, form or fashion after death. Who really knows?

In the end it's a mystery - and there is wonder and magic in that, even though it is really no answer at all.

Re: If it really is me.
November 12, 2013, 04:49:45 PM
I would recommend some reading to the OP that might offer some insightful perspectives on how the "I" arises from what seem like relatively (what a loose word) straightforward chemical and electrical processes. These books helped me to realize why people have and probably will continue to understand themselves as souls within a physical vessel. It is not so different from the way we look at our Windows desktop screen, but understand that the desktop is not physically present anywhere in the circuitry of the computer; rather, it is a projection manifested by many mechanical processes.

The first book is I Am a Strange Loop by Douglas Hofstadter, and is very "pop" in the sense that most everything is explained by lengthy analogies and personal anecdotes. It doesn't pander, though, and will give you a myriad of examples to understand the concept of the ethereal "I" that seems to dominate your sense of being. I am a kind of person that understands things through compariosn and contrast - a "synthesist" - so it was great reading for me, if a little less in-depth than I prefer.

The second book is Philosophy and Simulation: The Emergence of Synthetic Reason by Manuel Delanda. It provides an exhaustive and scientifically rigid description of the phenomenon we call "emergence" and, while not delving right into the concept of the "I", provides a robust framework onto which you can apply understanding about all kinds of complec emergent systems like social groups, individual consciousness, romance, and evolution of a species. The writing is dry, technical, and has many run-on sentences with sparse use of the comma, so it is not as relaxing a read as the Hofstadter book. Nevertheless the two books compliment one another very well.

And of course I always recommend Carl Jung's writing, as he masterfully synthesizes the scientific and religious aspects of perception of the self and "I" without getting too wrapped up in dull psychology. The book Man and His Symbols is a good starting point since it can be very useful without needing any background into Jung's work or even any understanding of psychology in general.

Re: If it really is me.
November 13, 2013, 02:42:57 AM
I don't believe any of this shit. You are, at least in part, your body. Most of you nerds probably think you aren't cause you've barely used your body. If you aren't your body than why don't you just blow your brains out. It's not like you'll be killing yourself, just getting rid of the baggage.

Re: If it really is me.
November 13, 2013, 03:21:03 AM
I don't believe any of this shit. You are, at least in part, your body. Most of you nerds probably think you aren't cause you've barely used your body. If you aren't your body than why don't you just blow your brains out. It's not like you'll be killing yourself, just getting rid of the baggage.

Good observation, poor wording. Still backed. In my experience, belief in a super-physical (or nonphysical, but super-physical sounds cooler to me) self is a method of coping with fear of mortality. Everyone who has argued this point with me has either been full of shit or had no means of arguing the point and it came down to "I believe what I blieve because I believe it", which is a ballsy move but does nothing for their case.

I'm still looking for someone to trash that argument for me.

Re: If it really is me.
November 13, 2013, 05:17:24 AM
Did it ever occur to you two supermen that you will not be young for long?
What of your super bodies then?
Bodies come and go.
Only the spark stays the course.

Re: If it really is me.
November 13, 2013, 05:22:55 AM
I've never seen a dead body live.