Metal > Interzone


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Well, at least there is one other person on earth, apart from my wife, who gets it :)


--- Quote from: dead last on December 05, 2013, 07:36:43 PM ---I get what Vigilance is saying.

Consider that he started with an assumption: Meaning is not real, meaning is the product of human minds. It is the most basic platform from which we develop ideas like nihilism.

Now what he means is clear; The more meaning you find in something, the more withdrawn you are from the actual meaningless reality of the something.

My car means a lot to me, because I rely on it to achieve my goals (which are admittedly quite meaningless). To someone else who does not rely on my car's utility, my car is less meaningful to them. It does not represent anything outside of its own existence as a car.

So meaning is basically a measurement of the significance of utility reflected in an object (or idea, song, what have you).

Now of course I see both sides and can not make a decision on the meaningfulness of meaning. So it is a human invention, a psychological crutch or restraint. So is my car, yet I accomplish tasks with it, and so cause changes in the actual reality surrounding myself.

Real, not real. Sometimes I only confuse myself more by drawing a distinction.

--- End quote ---

No that's not at all what I meant. Meaning and dreaming are real. People looking to quantify meaning with some abstract generalization drawn from outside the self, are in error.

The only way you can get an objective correspondence to show others is by way of art, really. Art gives concrete and objective form to meaning. Writing can get the job done, but I don't think it is the best vehicle. 

I suspected as much.
How often do we assume we know what somebody means, or that they understand what we mean, when it absolutely isn't happening?

I blame most of this state of affairs on the '60s drug culture, and its aftermath. It was the first time I ever heard people saying "d'ya know what I mean?" Drugged hippies imagined they knew what everyone meant even when those people hadn't actually said anything. And upon being asked if you knew what they meant, who was going to admit they were the only ones who didn't?

No. The fact is: almost nobody understands almost anything almost anybody says, writes, or means. They mostly only think they do. While thinking everybody else understands them.
Great recipe, eh? You end up with what you end up with: What we have.

dead last:
Alright, I guess I should lay off the pot when I'm browsing the DMU forum.

How does meaning manifest in your life? Is it created, is it emergent?
How does the perennial intersect with the mundane? Is there meaning in doing household chores or are they done out of necessity? Are these mutually exclusive? Do you shit with a thousand ecstasies? Does mowing the lawn set you trembling with ennui?
What does meaning (in the context of this thread) mean anyway? Is it borne of intellect, or something else? 

--- Quote ---Do you wrestle with dreams?
Do you contend with shadows?
Do you move in a kind of sleep?
Time has slipped away.
Your life is stolen.
You tarried with trifles,
Victim of your folly.

--- End quote ---

- Dirge for Jamis on the funeral plain


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